AfterDawn Forums

Verbatims Are now a Must on new burner FW

This discussion thread has 26 messages.

#1
Well trying burning a Xdg3 game now. All it will do is error unless you use verbatims which work. I'm not very happy about this since my CAD discs have always worked, but oh well. They are still free :)
▼▼ This topic has 25 answers - they are below this advertisement ▼▼
AfterDawn Advertisement
#2
That was what I wanted to know in my thread a few days back, because my daughter's box won't read Verbs at all, only CADs.


#3
There's a thread on the Team Xecuter forums on how to use KProbe (which is free and works only with Lite-On drives) to do disc quality scans.

In general with DVD media, the maximum PI should not be over 280 and the maximum PIF should not be over 4, but the admin of Team Xecuter's forums says that for good XGD3 burns, PI needs to be lower than 100 and PIF needs to be 4 or under.

Here's the results for one of those Gigablock discs that you mentioned using, Modking30, and this wasn't even burned with Burner Max (which would only make this result worse!): -




Compare that to a Verbatim: -



This message has been edited since its posting. Latest edit was made on 23 Oct 2011 @ 0:48

Click HERE for up to date 360 tutorials that may help you!
#4
So has there been any substitutes that have come close to verbs? I noticed the windata blues had decent results.

WINDATA BLUE TOP
MEDIA CODE : UMEDISC-DL1-64
GAME : BATMAN
BURNED @ 4X
TESTED AND WORKS



#5
I tried my first burn with Burner Max earlier. I used a Verbatim MKM-003-00 disc and burned it at 4X with OPC turned on. The max PI was 20-something and the max PIF was 5, which is 1 over the recommended spec but it was only 2 spikes that hit 5. The ISO burned and verified just fine in ImgBurn and the game installed and runs fine on the 360.

Those Windata results look good, but the main issue is whether they consistently use the same type of dye from pack to pack, and also the longevity. If you don't want to use Verbs for some reason and those Windata ones are cheap, I would give them a go though.

The worst results I'm seeing are from Riteks, with PI errors over 1,000 and PIF hitting nearly 200. You might as well buy them and throw them straight in the trash to cut out the middle man, lol.
This message has been edited since its posting. Latest edit was made on 22 Oct 2011 @ 23:00

Click HERE for up to date 360 tutorials that may help you!
#6
So what does it mean if you have Verbatim MKM-001 discs that has a PI max of 324 avg. 55.17 and PIF of 3 and avg of .14. Are the discs going bad or are there ideal conditions to burn these discs like not multitasking? The burn did verify to 100% but I haven't tried the disc yet.
#7
Originally posted by bludd:
So what does it mean if you have Verbatim MKM-001 discs that has a PI max of 324 avg. 55.17 and PIF of 3 and avg of .14.

The PIF result is absolutely fine. The max PI is higher than you want it to be, but as the average was 55 I'm assuming you just had a couple of spikes going up above 300, rather than it consistently being above 300 like in that Gigablock scan I posted above. Single line PI spikes are not usually anything to worry about unless there's tons of them!

Even if your burn falls outside the standard of 280/4 it doesn't necessarily mean that the disc is a coaster, because single spikes can push the max figures up, plus a lot of DVD drives have really good error correction that enables them to read discs with error levels that are considerably higher than the standard, but the higher the error levels are above the recommended standard, the more likely you are to have discs that skip/stutter (in the case of video), throw up read errors or just freeze up. In the case of 360 games, high error levels may also cause your burned game to fail certain challenges, as the burned disc may not return the same results as an original pressed disc, which is another reason why Verbatim media is recommended for XGD3 burns.
This message has been edited since its posting. Latest edit was made on 23 Oct 2011 @ 0:48

Click HERE for up to date 360 tutorials that may help you!
#8
Originally posted by eebeejay:
That was what I wanted to know in my thread a few days back, because my daughter's box won't read Verbs at all, only CADs.
You can use crappy media, but verbatims are the only ones that will work on xdg3 format that I hava tested.
#9
have anyone tried memorex yet?
#10
Originally posted by cooll903:
have anyone tried memorex yet?
These are memroex discs.

iHAS124 (crossflashed to 524)
iXtreme Burner Max
Gears Of War 3
Disc ID: RITEK-S04-66 @ 4x





Originally posted by funksoulb:
Originally posted by bludd:
In the case of 360 games, high error levels may also cause your burned game to fail certain challenges, as the burned disc may not return the same results as an original pressed disc, which is another reason why Verbatim media is recommended for XGD3 burns.
Thanks for the reply. Is it known if these challenges occur offline as well as online?
This message has been edited since its posting. Latest edit was made on 23 Oct 2011 @ 10:22
#11
KProbe is a very nice tool.
Lightning UK should consider integrating that functionality into ImgBurn.


#12
Just wondering, has anyone been getting some bad results with their verbatims? Do I just have a bad batch as it looks pretty poor from the 50% mark. I also just recently cross flashed my lite on ihas 124b to a ihas 524b as I was getting some poor results with it as a 124b.







#13
Originally posted by bludd:
Thanks for the reply. Is it known if these challenges occur offline as well as online?


That I don't know. I would assume so, but I don't know for sure.

Some people are getting better burns from crap media by enabling HyperTuning and Online HyperTuning. If you want to try that, it's under Tools - Drive - Change Advanced Settings... in ImgBurn.

@bludd - Try lowering the read speed in KProbe to 4X instead of using "MAX". That can affect your results. It's pretty common for the second layer to have considerably higher error levels than the first though, but you're still within spec there anyway. Pressed factory discs are considered good if the PI doesn't exceed 280, so don't get too caught up in the second half of that graph looking worse than the first as the max PI is still only 231.
This message has been edited since its posting. Latest edit was made on 23 Oct 2011 @ 20:47

Click HERE for up to date 360 tutorials that may help you!
#14
Has anyone been successful with Xdg3 backup yet on the new FW with different media other than verbs?
#15
@Funksoulb Well impressed with your verb result .Been trying to replicate.Did you just use the standard settings as per the burner max guide included with the firmware?

And you mentioned to set the kprobe speed to 4x .I was wondering what speed the xbox would read the disc format at ? Would one assume the xbox would pick up more errors if it reads at a faster speed than the 4x test speed ? Or have i just made as ass out of myself for making that assumption?
#16
I burned at 4X with OPC enabled, so yeah, as the guide says.

Your assumption isn't bad per se. The number of errors actually on the disc should be unchanged of course as the errors are a result of the burning process rather than the reading process, but the faster a disc is read, the more the errors may affect the drive's ability to read it. Theoretically you should get the same result in KProbe if you use "max" or if you use 4X, but sometimes you'll get a more accurate result at a lower speed. The 360 drive reads at up to 12X (constant 12X when a game is installing I believe), but if the error levels are within the recommended spec, it shouldn't have a problem.

Click HERE for up to date 360 tutorials that may help you!
#17
Thank you for the info.It is much appreciated.
#18
Originally posted by Modking30:
Has anyone been successful with Xdg3 backup yet on the new FW with different media other than verbs?
I have had success with some ritek I have laying around here that show as ricohjpn. I used Media Code Speed Edit, and edited the firmware c4eva made to make the media only write at 2.4x, flashed the edited firmware onto 524b then turned off opc in imgburn. These disk are only booted in my banned console so I have no reason to worry about testing. The only xgd3 disk I have at the moment is gow3 so it is the only one I tested.

Edit = Forgot to say if you want to read about the app it is here http://ala42.cdfreaks.com/MCSE/
This message has been edited since its posting. Latest edit was made on 24 Oct 2011 @ 12:07

#19
Hmmm.I've always used Verbs for my backups but with my new burner 524 i am getting inconsistant results.I'm striking about 75% success verification rate at the mo and have been monitoring other posts/forums and it seems there is not a drive/group of settings or media that is 100% reliable low error burns.It does seem to be hit and miss.
I have tried the same settings as other people that have the same drive and use the same media and get very different results.I'm awaiting a different drive to try but in the mean time will try cheaper media on my ihas 524.Will report back my results.
All are my own rips.
My verbs are MKM 001 from different batches.
My kprobe results when they verify are just within the the recommanded specs with a couple of peaks just outside similar to bludds 524 graph.
This message has been edited since its posting. Latest edit was made on 24 Oct 2011 @ 23:54
#20
I've noticed that more people with 124/324/524 drives seem to be having issues than 224/424/624 owners, but that's only based on posts on forums so it isn't conclusive. Perhaps the difference in hardware and firmware is what's causing it? I've got a 624 (converted from a 224) and I've burned a bunch of games on MKM-003 Verbs at 4X with OPC on and they've all burned and verified 100%. I've only scanned 2 discs with KProbe, but the error levels have been very low and are well within spec.

Click HERE for up to date 360 tutorials that may help you!
#21
I have burned 9 or so coasters using verbs and memorex with the 324 I got from newegg. I haven't had a successful burn yet and have been messing with the drive's settings since the firmware was released. Made it past 100% mark on write portion of the process and failed at 50% on the verification on a couple memorex discs...the verbs all failed during the write process with I/O or sector errors with the different options ticked.

Based on the numerous similar reports on various 360 sites I am going to jump the gun and speculate that the firmware will need to be revised to address these issues. A lot of people seem to be experiencing problems at the layerbreak, whether writing or verifying.

I've been torturing myself trying to gather as much information as possible...trying to find different solutions... as I've never had any issues burning discs on my optiarc or other burners.

Glad most of you are doing ok and that these problems are only effecting a small percentage of people.
#22
MrG - Have you tried enabling any of the drive's other features such as hypertuning and online hypertuning? That's made the difference between coasters and good burns for some people.

Click HERE for up to date 360 tutorials that may help you!
#23
funksoulb, I did try the Lite-on advanced settings before burning most of the coasters. I enabled the recommended features (hypertuning, online hypertuning, and smartburn)(disabled overspeed). I did seem to be getting closer with these settings.

I also read somewhere along the way that tweaking the settings in the 2nd page of the I/O menu would help (increasing the buffer size to 71mb or 72mb or 73mb). I took it upon upon myself to also increase the main Buffer Recovery Threshold to 25% and device to 50%. At this point I was now able to burn 100% of the way, but would fail verification at the layerbreak or 50% of the way through the verification process. BUT!!--just now

UPDATE!!! After tweaking and tweaking and failing and failing, I decided to try a few other things on my own:

I removed my old optiarc burner (that I used for all my xgd2 discs) from my setup, just in case, and I used a SATA to IDE adapter on the XGD3 Burner Max and voila, success!!!
BF3 disc 1 written and verified 100% on Verbatim, installed on console and working with no problems. Memorex still failing (not surprised).

whew...that took way too many discs and a lot of tweaks. I'm not sure what finally made everything flow....the removal of the optiarc or the SATA to IDE conversion or both. I'm going to try with the optiarc back in the mix later and see if the coasters return.

Hope this might help others with similar problems.
This message has been edited since its posting. Latest edit was made on 25 Oct 2011 @ 8:39

"All drives should be updated to Lite Touch + (LT+) firmware if playing on XBOX live. Samsung drives and pre-78/79 Hitachi drives do not utilize AP 2.5. All other drives are considered to be detectable by Microsoft (YMMV). Make sure all rips are ABGX verified, contain SSv2, and patched AP2.5 (where needed). XGD3 must currently be burned on new drive with PC Burner Max firmware for 100% rip. All modded consoles can be potentially unsafe for use on XBOX live."
#24
i have been using memorex discs forever now,out of 100 discs i burn i get 3 coasters,mind you i fix and maintain consoles so my own are in perfect condition,i have played around with alot of differant brands and theres not to many that i have problems with,i think its what you have for a PC to burn the games and with programs and the anti virus running in the background,that could effect the burn of the disc,
#25
Finally, I got a good result with some Singapore MKM-003 Verbatims. Every variation I tried with my MKM-001 Verbs gave me about the same results which were high PI after the layer break. I'm not sure where my old Verbs were manufactured but will be looking to get ones manufactured from Singapore from now on.

As for the good result, I had OPC on at 4x and the rest was at default. With the MKM-001 I tried everything from enabling the hypertuning etc which actually yielded worse results for me. Needless to say I'm happy I finally am able to get a good burn.


This discussion thread has been automatically closed, as it hasn't received any new posts during the last 180 days. This means that you can't post replies or new questions to this discussion thread.

If you have something to add to this topic, use this page to post your question or comments to a new discussion thread.