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The Official PC building thread - 4th Edition

Discussion in 'Building a new PC' started by ddp, Sep 13, 2010.

  1. sammorris

    sammorris Senior member

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    The last sentiment is true, I had a £140 BeQuiet! 850W unit that was dreadful, but your comment that cheap PSUs very rarely fail in a dangerous manner isn't true, owing to how they're made. Rip apart a cheap PSU and you will find that in actual fact, the components are rated far lower (sometimes as low as 1/6) of the rating on the label. By seriously overloading components like rectifiers, capacitors etc. you run the risk of causing component overheat issues, which given many cheap units do not have overload/overheat protection, can potentially lead to fire.
     
  2. Mr-Movies

    Mr-Movies Active member

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    So a board isn't full featured if it doesn't have the exact same configuration as your Gigabyte? That's not true if you look at all high-end full featured boards they almost all vary to some degree so I could say that since you don't have two LANs your board isn't full featured which isn't true of course. I didn't say the ASRock had the most features then I would be wrong. As to LLC I'm not sure that the ASRock doesn't provide that feature but truly you don't need automatic load control to have a stable OC'd platform and I know people that have the feature and purposely don't use it. For one in can over or under compensate when it adjusts for load which can be bad depending on where you base voltage is set. Don't take me wrong though I think it is a nice feature and can make OC'n much easier. But personally I don't need it or have to have it to OC and in fact many people have bought this board just to overclock and have done so successfully. Also ASRock MB's allow you to adjust the CPU voltage whether or not you see it in the manual doesn't mean they don't provide those adjustments, I have the capability on much lesser boards of theirs and others who have OC'd that board wouldn't have been able to if the features were not there.

    I would like to have the 8 internal SATA3 connectors instead of 6 but sometimes you can't have everything and I can always go to an Add-On card for more SATA. I'm torn between the ASRock and the high-end MSI which I believe has 8 internal SATA's. But I haven't ruled out the Gigabyte either the only reason I'm leaning to something different is I have mostly Gigabyte and would like to play with other boards in order to keep up with what is out there. I see that Tyan is making desktop boards again but I don't think they are as good as they used to be. I wish I was still working at the computer place I used to work at as I dealt with all varieties of equipment and was more current with everything but such is life.

    You're correct on the CoolMax I always get the two confused but whether or not you allow RAIMAX PSUs in your home certainly doesn't mean they're bad, they're not. In fact they have a very high customer rating on NewEgg but as you know you can't always go by that of course.

    Sam, Just because cheap power supplies lie about their ratings doesn't mean that when they fail they are going to wipe out your system. I truly have worked with and built thousands of PC's and servers and it is extremely rare to seen a PSU wipe out a computer, but it does happen.

    More then often it is when Kevin tries to hot swap his Molex connector powered hard drive that you see the MB and or PSU go up in smoke. Sorry Kev the devil made me say that... :D LOL

    As too components leading to fire that is true with cheap or quality caps, resistors, transformers (which are the worst second to caps), and diode/rectifiers but with quality components there is a much lesser chance of course. The real problem to wiping out other components like your motherboard is when something shorts and you have a lot of energy built up in capacitance or reluctance then bad things happen.

    Sorry for being so long in the mouth,
    Stevo
     
  3. theonejrs

    theonejrs Senior member

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    Estuansis,

    Actually, the funny part is that the corsair H60 has a 25mm thick radiator, the Coolit is 38mm! Both are 120mm radiators, and I'm sure you know that I've never had to clean the CoolIt. It's been almost 2 years now, and since Kevin's sprung a leak, and mine was the oldest one here I decided to give the $57 H60 a try. Now, I've got about 35% less radiator, and two less fans, and after 10 IBT runs at 100% stress the CPU temp will barely hit 53C, at 4GHz. It's such a quiet machine, and it's going to be even quieter after I change the 1700 rpm 74 cfm fan with this PWM Arctic cooling fan.

    http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835186078

    350 rpm slower, and doesn't scream at max rpm like the stock corsair pull fan does. It produces the same hi static airflow, but is so much quieter doing it. Some here have said that they wouldn't pay $79 for any case, let alone the $99 retail price. I bought a second one for $79, after seeing how well it cooled the 1090t. I was able to lower the CPU voltage at 4 GHz, from the max 1.424v it took to reach 4GHz, to 1.36v when I installed it in the 990XA-UD3. At stock 3.2 GHz, it runs from 10 to 18% faster than it ran in the 790X-UD4H, depending on what you are running on it.

    The 990FXA-UD5 motherboard is a jewel. I lucked out in getting all the goodies with the "open box" one I bought. It even included the 3 way SLI bridge. I double lucked out in getting one that was a re-serialed Rev 1.1, which is the latest board. Why is that lucky, you ask? Because They still field test them with real CPUs, to reduce the likelihood of the customer getting another bad board. Gigabyte also extended me the courtesy of giving me the full 3 year warranty. I was able to successfully argue that since it is a new motherboard, and not a repair, and since Newegg has them on sale for the same price I paid for mine, I was entitled to a full warranty. Outstanding!

    http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813128509

    At $134.99 after a $20 MIR, it's got to be the best buy around right now, for such a high end Feature Rich AMD motherboard. I also saved the $7.87 shipping because mine came with free shipping. If I should decide to do a high end 2 or 3 way SLI (which I may well do), I know I have the right motherboard for the job, and the right case to keep it cool! Did I say "outstanding"? :) I be very happy!

    Best Regards,
    Russ
     
  4. theonejrs

    theonejrs Senior member

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    Stevo,

    I'm not sure how you misunderstood me, because I specifically said that the Asrock had both LLC and CPU voltage adjustments.
    BTW, you might want to give some serious consideration to the UD5. It's on sale at Newegg for $134.99 after a $20 MIR. An outstanding buy at that price!

    http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813128509

    As to PSUs, like Sam, I've seen a couple go up in flames, and I've replace many that had caught fire. One particular CoolMax I took apart to see what failed, only to discover that the heat sink was made of cardboard, covered with aluminum foil on both sides. What a joke, and a dangerous one at that! I stick with name brands like my OCZ Fatal1ty 550w 80+ modular

    Best Regards,
    Russ
     
  5. Mr-Movies

    Mr-Movies Active member

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    That's a really good price Russ and I'm sorry I miss understood you on the LLC. I just might go that route for that price, which is really cheap. I can always add a NIC for a second LAN and it would be nice to have the 8 SATA's.

    I've seen PSU's flame out but that doesn't mean it takes your whole system down, unless you add-in drapes with the deal. LOL And like I said it is extremely rare for a PSU to flame out, I've only seen it a few times and we are talking over many years and thousands and thousands of PC's. I know what you mean about CoolMax I too won't buy another one and they are extremely cheaply built but I've never seen a Mickey Mouse heat sink like that, what a joke for sure. I also like the OCZ Fatal1ty and it is in my list of possible supplies but like Jeff I'm thinking about a 700w as I may load this build up with lots of drives and possibly three to four video cards. The Gigabyte would handle up to 3 but the ASRock and MSI can handle 4.

    With exception to a server board are there any AMD boards that can handle 8 RAM slots. ASUS makes a board that does for Intel CPU's but I haven't seen one for AMD. I'd love to have 64GB RAM and run some virtual drives which by the way the ASRock does well but I'm stuck with 32GB's RAM.

    Thanks Russ,
    Stevo
     
    Last edited: Dec 11, 2012
  6. ddp

    ddp Moderator Staff Member

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    russ, that coolmax psu you took apart might have been a knockoff made by somebody else like the fake rolex watches.
     
  7. theonejrs

    theonejrs Senior member

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    Stevo,

    Today must be your lucky day! LOL!! 750W OCZ Fatal1ty, modular. I'm not a big fan of fully modular, as sooner or later the ATX cable connection at the PSU seems to break down a lot, as they age. I prefer semi-modular myself.

    http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817341041

    Best Regards,
    Russ
     
  8. Mr-Movies

    Mr-Movies Active member

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    I agree with you on the modular supplies and that is why I was looking at the Fatal1ty and others I've mentioned.

    Thanks again,
    Stevo
     
  9. theonejrs

    theonejrs Senior member

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    ddp,

    Really? I never heard of that before. The one I took apart, came from TigerDirect, so I am surprised. I found the 12v and 5v fused together. Looks like the insulation on the 12v melted, and then melted through the 5v line. Like many here I used to buy cheap PSUs, and just like many others, I learned my lesson the hard way, although all it cost me was an ODD. Remember the 1 year replacement warranty at Neweeg? I had 3 days left on the warranty. Newegg replaced it! I've seen many others that weren't so lucky.

    Best Regards,
    Russ
     
  10. ddp

    ddp Moderator Staff Member

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    if they can make fake parts for airliners & military equipment then they can make fake psu's.
     
  11. theonejrs

    theonejrs Senior member

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    Stevo,

    Weird how things like that work. I didn't even know OCZ made a 750w Fatal1ty PSU. I was looking at the 72 hour specials, and there it was! LOL!! Good price too.

    Best Regards,
    Russ
     
  12. sammorris

    sammorris Senior member

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    I couldn't see much evidence inside for this, but I'm pretty sure that's what happened to my Qtec. Only explanation I can think of to explain why only stuff that had 5V inputs going to it got toasted.
     
  13. theonejrs

    theonejrs Senior member

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    Sam,

    You are probably right. It certainly makes sense.

    On another note, I have a question regarding my video card. I was doing some testing of 3DMark06, and noticed that as I slowed down the computer speed, the 3dMarks went up. This is the best video performance, at 3.7GHz.

    [​IMG]

    Do lower 3DMarks at higher CPU speeds indicate a bottleneck of some kind? I know the 550GTX ti isn't a high end card, but I'm going to put two of them in 2 way SLI and see if that changes what for now I'll call the sweet spot?

    I may well do a high end 3 way SLI, since Russell is getting more and more into games since he "retired", meaning he was fired for making too much money, and replaced with a minimum wage employee.

    What would you consider the best nVidia dual cards, assuming you can use dual cards in SLI? That would be awesome with 3 way SLI, which I just happen to have with the UD5. ~:) See me doing a job of selling myself on the idea? ROFL. This will be for the FX-8320.

    I decided to go ahead and keep the FX-8320. I got far too much hassle from M$ with Win7, because of all the new parts. m$ claimed that it was a new computer, and wanted me to purchase a new license, but I stuck to my guns that it was a complete upgrade for the FX-8320. I had to fax them the invoices for all the parts. and I've also forewarned them about the impending upgrade to the 1090t, with XP-Pro which is also everything new but the CPU. I don't see what difference it makes if I do the same thing over a period of 6 months, or do it all at once. I chose all at once, but it's still the same thing, right?

    Let me know what you think about higher end dual cards for 2 or 3 way SLI.

    Thanks,
    Russ
     
  14. Blazorthon

    Blazorthon Regular member

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    You can only do three-way SLI with three cards that support three-way SLI. You can't do it with a dual-GPU card and a single GPU card. That can be done with Crossfire, but not with SLI.
     
  15. DXR88

    DXR88 Regular member

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    God, i don't know what kind of case it is. its almost 11 or 12 years old at least. it came with a Dual Slot A Motherboard which I'm sure was either SuperMicro or Tyan.

    i gutted, sand blasted and gave it a Candy Apple paint job and have been using it for just about every thing since, its steel plated the side panels alone weigh a good 10 pounds each its got 6 Fans slots 3 60's in the front 2 80's in the back and a massive 140 on the left side panel right above where the 2 Slot A's were. oddly enough my dual 460's populate that area. all the fan mounts are populated by scythe fans.

    as for air flow i have it reversed to the popular in front out back setup. i have the air pulled in the back and blown out the front which works best for me do to the close proximity to the wall. the reason i started doing it like this was because the heat blown out by my P4 Rig actually heated up the latex paint just hot enough to cause it to separate from the wall and peel.

    As for the 965BE itself the performance is great, i only wish it had a true DDR3 memory controller my memory is locked to 1666 even though its capable of 2133. as for the heat I'm pretty sure that its do to the Steel nature of the case. I've found no way to effectively dissipate heat from underneath the motherboard yet. been looking around for an aluminum or copper mounting bracket, but my gut instinct tell me that would probably make the heat issue worse. the heat level is acceptable at around 3.8-4.0GHz anything after that is like you've just turned a portable heater on in your computer.
     
  16. Blazorthon

    Blazorthon Regular member

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    The Phenom II CPUs have a true DDR3 memory controller and aren't limited to DDR3-1666. The motherboard can limit the memory to that, but the Phenom II CPUs are capable of running up to DDR3-1866 or DDR3-2000 without changing the base clock (IDR which) and are capable of DDR3-2133 with a small change in the base clock. If you're limited to DDR3-1666 and the memory kit itself isn't the problem, them your issue is almost definitely the motherboard. I've built systems with that CPU and DDR3-1866 memory without issues.
     
    Last edited: Dec 11, 2012
  17. theonejrs

    theonejrs Senior member

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    Blazorthon,

    Maybe I missed something, but I was under the impression from the talk around AD that to do 3 way SLI, the video cards needed to be SLI ready, all three need to be either single GPU or Dual GPU, and you can't mix Dual GPUs with single GPUs. This isn't correct?

    First I plan to start with a 2 way SLI with the two 550GTX-ti cards I have now, and see if the video performance improves, and hopefully allows me to OC higher than 3.7GHz, for my best 3DMark06 scores.

    Best Regards,
    Russ
     
  18. DXR88

    DXR88 Regular member

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    ill have to look into that then, i was under the impression that 1866 was the highest rating DDR3 could achieve with the AM3 plateform
     
  19. theonejrs

    theonejrs Senior member

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    Blazorthon,

    My 990FXA-UD5 handles DDR3/1866 with a quick change in the memory multiplier. You have to OC for DDR3/2000 cas 8 is the best you can get right now, so I'm using DDR3/1600 Cas 7 for now, until the latency drops on the DDR3/1866 memory. I could live with cas 8, but I'll wait and see if it drops to cas 7 in the near future.

    Best Regards,
    Russ
     
  20. Blazorthon

    Blazorthon Regular member

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    Russ,

    You need three single GPU Nvidia cards with pretty much identical GPUs for three-way SLI. You can't do it with three dual GPU cards, although theoretically, you probably could do it with two dual-GPU cards with one of the GPU disabled. You can't mix a single GPU and dual-GPU card for it either.

    Also, some cards are limited to only two-way SLI and that includes the GTX 550 Ti. For three-way SLI, they have to be three single GPU cards that are capable of three-way SLI. For example, this includes (from GTX 500 series) only the GTX 570 and the GTX 580 IIRC. From the GTX 600 series, this includes only the GTX 660 Ti, GTX 670, and GTX 680 IIRC.

    Dual-GPU or not, all modern graphics cards are limited to no more than a total of four GPUs in a Crossfire or SLI *array*. Dual-GPU cards are treated as a two-way SLI or Crossfire *array*, so you can have two of them for a quad-GPU *array*, but no more than that. How many *ways* an SLI *array* is said to be counts the numbers of GPUs, not the number of cards that the GPUs are attached to.
     
    Last edited: Dec 11, 2012

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