Proposed limitation on "Newbie" posts...

Hi All,

I have noticed there has been more and more "Newbies" starting threads in the more Advanced sections of the forum.

The majority (vastly so in my opinion) are questions that rightly should be in the Newbie section.

Is it possible to disallow Newbie & Junior Members from STARTING threads in the Advanced sections - they should be allowed to post to existing threads (not all Newbies are total dorks, some of them have valuable contributions to make).

The "Doc"

 

Not sure that would work. There could be a Newbie to the forum with an advanced question to ask...

 

In the event that should happen (tis a rare thing, go look at the threads and judge for yourself), it is so easy for a Mod to move that thread - it would happen so infrequently that to turn down the possibility of an "improvement" because there is a small probability of a particular occurance seems a bit like "Political Correctness".

For every possible improvement, there will always be an objection, because it might disadvantage someone, at some time, under some circumstances.....

The proposal would bring far greater benefit and, with other changes (Moderator Alert Function and others I am thinking about), would act to REDUCE the load on the Moderators/Admin - it seems a worthy goal to try and get the forums to a self-regulating state, whereby the more prolific/senior members are assisting the Mods (bearing in mind the low ratio of Mods to other members).

Have Fun....

 

Drchips

I am a Junior member & bitterly resent your suggestion that i should not be able to initiate a thread on the "advanced" section. I don't make stupid posts, i bide my time & when i think i can contribute i will post.I always read the questions, that are posted, carefully, unlike many members on this forum. I dont post answers, that have already been answered correctly, unlike many other members on this forum.I dont take a "superior" stance, unlike certain members on this forum. I have noticed a lot of members (senior aswell) that make "stupid" unneccesary posts, but i dont complain.Perhaps these people are trying to boost their "post count" to attain a higher status? I simply just accept it because I am merely a lowlife "junior member" Perhaps I should complain because some threads now are basically turning into "chat zones", with pathetic squabbling and meaningless "off topic banter". I also use the "search" facility extensively to try and track down "similar" topics. Hence my post count is "not as high as I could have made it!!"

If the moderators decide to accept your proposal I feel that many people will simply just leave this forum. The forum would then just lose its spark & enjoyment of many members.

I must admit, i am now tempted to become a "lurker" on this forum and never post. I did this when i first joined this forum.

I agree that there are some obvious newbie posts that should not be posted in the advanced section, it's always going to happen.Some "newbies (and i hate that term) dont know that the questions they are asking are basic. Perhaps the moderators could "move" these posts to a more suitable location?



I am sorry to post this next section me ole chippy fella, but perhaps you "feel" you should be a "moderator". You can flame me all you want for that comment, I deserve it.

I

 

You have earned that status and are undoubtably close to being a Member (quantity of posts is the criteria).

an emotional reaction, surely a well reasoned argument would have been better!

Agreed, [bold]you[/bold] are one of the few who do so, and as far as I am concerned, you stand out because of that - your evaluation of what are "stupid posts" is just that, your evaluation and not an empirical standard (unless of course you believe that YOUR standards of evaluation should be imposed as the forum standard?

Ah, you too have noticed, good for you.

Once again, kudos to you, though you could not really claim otherwise as it would undermine the "Politically Correct" stance you have taken up (that is a difficult task you have taken upon yourself, the champion of the poor downtrodden masses, so easy it is to slip into or be forced into a holier-than-thou, self-righteous and therefore untenable position, rather you than me!!)

As is your right to choose, no-one here would gainsay that.

A specious rehetorical question designed to elicit an emotional response in the reader - if you took the time to find out you would KNOW that the progression from Newbie through Junior Member to Member is based on quantity of posts, further "elevation" (sic) is NOT based on post quantity, so what you are questioning CANNOT happen, but is an effective mechanism to garner support from those who are unaware - good try though

That will change, then you will not need to feel guilty - should do wonders for your self-esteem

Would YOU want to stop that?, to impose YOUR standards of acceptable discussion?
Please bear in mind this is NOT a manufacturers support forum, it is an open forum, a community if you will, I would agree that a manufacturers support forum would have a far more rigid structure controlling interactions and the such, but this is a more open community.
What kind of community do you live in that frowns upon "chat" and "banter"? - I doubt that forcing an Orwellian ruleset upon this forum would be a good thing.

The Moderators are overworked as it is (there is a low ratio of Mods to other members), it would mean LESS work for them to move the occasional "Newbie" thread that SHOULD BE in the "Advanced" area than to move the multitude of incorrectly sited "Newbie" threads into the "Newbie" area.

This is a community, and functions as a community, as such the people of that community should take some of the responsibility for managing that community, just as in real life (in real life, there are areas in your community where you are restricted from entering unless invited/accompanied, this is normal, expected and in the main the "right" way - allowing unrestricted access to all areas for everyone irrespective of trust etc has invariably been shown to be a recipe for disaster, the society TENDS to degenerate into anarchy)

Unfortunately, this is an excellent example of the kind of "knee-jerk" reaction that is to be expected whenever ANY KIND OF CHANGE is proposed that MAY "inconvenience" some of the more "disadvantaged", "less experienced" or just plain "intellectually challenged" among us.

It purely dripped with emotionally charged terminology, reeking of "Political Correctness"

Must we all be cast in the same mould?
Must we all be "Politically Correct" in deed, word and thought?
Is there no place in this community for a dissenting viewpoint?
Is there no place in this community for a proposal for the evaluation of change to be put forward without such an attack being forthcoming?

This is a FORUM, if you do a Google search on the definition you will be able to read many differing explanations of what it is: BUT, in none of those is any mention of the suppression of ideas or thoughts as a function of a forum.

Have Fun...

 

Oriphus

I had planned on leaving the forum for good, but I have enjoyed it so much since initially joining I would simply miss it too much. I have greatly enjoyed reading your input and the help you have given me is truly invaluable. Many many thanks.

Dr chips

Your obvious debating skills are without doubt excellent. I have no doubt that I would easily lose a war of words with you, so I will calmly back down & accept that your original post was in the best interests of this forum.

My self esteem does not need to be improved, I would be very happy to "lurk" on these forums, and remain a junior member. It does not affect my ability to produce the results i achieve. I take in all the excellent, and some not so excellent, views that are expressed.

What really got my goat was your apparent "tarring" of "most" (not all) newbies as dorks on this forum.Thats such a derrogatory term and it was bound to enrage many newbies and members alike.No other newbie stood up for execution so I thought i's have my two penneth worth.

I have been in engineering for many many years now & have gained great experience in the field. In my experience the greatest innovation & debate can be initiated by the, so called, junior staff who are not tarnished by fears of failure & ridicule. Your original post, if implemented, would actively discourage new members from becoming "involved" and as a result would drive them away in heards. Probably something that the moderators & owners of this site would not like.

I am not pushing my terms of conduct on this forum, I am merely stating my viewpoint after reading this excellent forum for a good few months.

 

Bye from the thread or the forum. Dont be leaving the forum now, we need valuable members like yourself!!

 

brian100:

Most excellent post!

That fits better with the impression you have made with all your other posts across the forum; clear, reasoned, easily assimilated and understood, with few points of contestation - SOME of the hallmarks of an Adult viewpoint.

Your previous post in this thread seemed "out of character", but then again, I am not a people-person so my judgement in that respect is undoubtably flawed.

My strengths lie in analysis and investigation, other "better qualified" persons deal with the personal, face-to-face interrogation scenarios, I provide analysis, tracing, tracking etc support.

I am merely a flawed male who occasionally gets it wrong (unlike the female of the species ).

Glad you have decided to remain with the forum.

This community of ours NEEDS all types, stable and even-tempered types like yourself, "kindly Uncle" types like ScubaPete, conciliatory types like Oriphus, even inflammatory types like myself IF it is to avoid the slide towards stagnation
(we even need the dumb-nuts types like that one wanting a username & serial number for a program - that was a good idea of yours for Dumbest Post Of The Week, hope it comes about: but does that not come close to the fear & ridicule point you made in your post).

What I was proposing was:
Newbies be limited with respect to STARTING threads in the advanced section.
Newbies have NO limitations on POSTING A REPLY in that section.

I agree that the label "Newbie" is not an indication of their level of skill in any matter, but it is a good indication of the PROBABLE level of skill, and a VERY GOOD indicator of their experience of being part of this community.

Any Newbie having any level of skill will have no restriction on assisting others (other than STARTING a thread in the Advanced section), and as such, the vast majority of them would never come up against such a restriction.

What it would do is act as a cleanup for that particular problem (much as a No Entry sign on a one-way street, it acts to stop drivers going the wrong way, though there are always those who feel affront at such limitation).

It is in fact a small restriction, sufficient to ensure that those who are most likely to be unaware of the structure and function of the differing parts of the forum are then guided or prompted to the other areas which are probably more suitable for their question.

As the entry barrier would be so low (the progression from Newbie through Junior to Member can be in a short period of time, it is post based), those who use the site (posting) would quickly gain entry to that area (by that time they SHOULD have absorbed some idea of what questions go where).

Unfortunately, this would tend to have a more restrictive effect upon "lurkers" (post counts being relatively low), but it seems the vibrancy and spark of the forum comes from Posters, not Lurkers, hence it is reasonable to conclude that the spark would not be lost.

In my view (which may be wrong), those who are most likely to be offended by such a small restriction and choose to go elsewhere are those who rail against ALL restrictions of any form, including having to pay for software (I guess you are a parent, imagine your child having no restrictions or guidance, ever!).

How many of those people should the forum harbour and support?

If we do not police and take responsibility for our own community, that policing and regulation will be IMPOSED FROM OUTSIDE the community (and who wants politicians/big business etc controlling this community? NOT ME!!)

If my proposal is deemed to be unworkable after examination by other members of the community, then so be it..
But to dismiss it out of hand does not seem logical.

Hopefully this will engender discussion, maybe some other ideas/proposals can be put forward, anything to hopefully improve our community.

Have Fun....

 

Drchips

Lets hope that others join this discussion so we can gauge the level of membership feeling on your suggestion. If the membership pour cold water on your idea I will gladfully recommend your initial post for "dumbest post of the week " I think "Drchips dumbo" has rather a nice ring to it.

I personally think that some sort of regulation, probably my senior members, is bound to be introduced in future. Change always takes place both in life and business. It's inevitable.

I would personally like to see a banner that appears before a new thread is posted. The banner could take the form, for example :-

"PLEASE USE THE SEARCH ENGINE AND ENSURE YOU ARE POSTNG ON THE CORRECT FORUM PRIOR TO POSTING A NEW THREAD"

This harmless & totally inoffensive banner could deter many members, and newbies, from posting duplicate or inappropriate information. It's only a suggestion and my guess is that it would be easier to implement than your proposed method.

 

Glad to hear you are sticking around Brian, and glad you have found some of my threads useful or atleast interesting. Anyone interested in Home Cinema, i've put lots of good information to get you started in the Home Cinema section of the forum.

I dont really see any sort of regulation my senior members taking place though on this forum, though of course i dont know that. I feel that if dRD or Ketola think that there needs to be more regulation introduced, they will convert a few addicts and possibly senior members to moderator status.

 

brian100:

A banner such as you have commented on could be so easily implemented (even trivially so, bearing in mind the obvious skill of dRD et al), but I fear it would be ignored, just clicked through.

Such a banner popup (a splash screen) has been implemented for Newbies upon login (so I am led to believe, I have not seen it myself), prompting them to read the forum rules:
http://forums.afterdawn.com/thread_view.cfm/0/69839#359016

Despite this, it seems that there is an increasing level of posts being made that break the forum rules.

Extrapolate that situation to your proposal.

Then compare to a mild enforcement that cannot be ignored.

As for the ease of implementation, only dRD and the Admins can comment on that.

If I am to be named "Dumbo" for a week, can I be the first one ever!

Have Fun....

 

I love my title to be changed to "Stupid Newbie" for a laugh

 

I think this is a very appropiate topic and as far as I can see, a logical debate. Now drchips has many valid points supporting his request for the "newbie" ban on starting threads in advanced sections. You too, were a newbie and probably had some serious questions to ask before you gained rank. How would you like it, not being able to post a question, even after searching the forums over and over? I am not trying to be hostile or anything, just sharing my opinion.

One thing I have noticed is the increasing number of threads labeled "HELP ME!!!!!!" or something along these lines, usually posted by a newbie. As we are thinking up ideas to propose, I say that there should be some exceptions in thread titles. I know that it is probably only a few lines of code, to exclude such words as "help". I think this would be helpful to the members of this site that want to help out. I for one, don't like to see thread titles with the word "help" and no explanation of what the problem is.

I'm not saying that I am better then newbies, because I am only a Junior Member, but they should (as well as all members should) use the search feature. Many questions are answered there. There are some newbies that have a lot of information and knowledge to spread, some even more then senior members on this site and should be given credit for it and a chance to show what they know. I don't think it is a contest, but newbies should be able to start threads in advanced topics.

I have read the thread carefully, but I seem to have missed something...This ban is only for the advanced sections, am I correct?
_
_X_X_X_X_X_[small]Pentium 4 1.8ghz
80 gig hard drive 7200 rpm(2x40 gigs)
LG 16x DVD ROM
LG GSA-4081b 8x DVD Burner
ATI Radeon 9200 SE Gold Edition 128mb
512 DDR RAM[/small]

 

Its always been a problem. Newbies have splash screens now before they post - i wish they would read them...

 

brian100,drchips ,oriphus and nephilim

always nice to see people playing so nicely together.You all have valid posts on how you all see the current situation of this forum, and i guess ultimately its dRD and the moderators who will change the site for the betterment of us.

I had a few more thoughts on this matter but o'well maybe in another life i will elaborate.Needless to say i quite enjoyed this thread and the banter you guys were having.I see drchips is quite an accomplish'd debater and brian give it time you will be very good as well and maybe an equal to drchips but you need to stop being so emotional but think more logical.


have fun guys and thanks for the enjoyment.(This definitely was the hi point to this week)

andmerr

 

andmerr

This is off topic !!.

Perhaps over 20 years working in British engineering as a designer is enough to drive even the most balanced individual to occasionally wear ones heart on ones sleeve!(recurring dream...I hope that £500k order of metal work i just ordered fits...correction it's a nightmare!!)

And the next question is, c'mon lets have your opinion on the original thread. Speak up, I promise I won't blow a gasket, especially as the England cricket team are 2 - 0 up against The West Indies & it looks like were going to go 3 - 0 up, take advantage NOW I am as mellow as a cat in a cream factory !!

 

[bold]andmerr:[/bold]

I agree with Brian, we need your input on the original proposal AND the subsequent changes as suggested.

In fact, the more people comment, the greater level of feedback to everyone.....

Cheers...