Hello All! I am seeking advice/opinions about home theater receivers. I am using one of the first 5.1 which needs external decoders and its got to go. My speakers are Mirage OM series all the way around and I'm very happy with them. I am both a movie and music buff. I've been looking at two: the Denon AVR 3805 and the Yamaha RX-V2400 (though I'm open to any suggestions). I've read in places that while they're both good, the Denon has superior sound while the Yamaha has better surround processing and DTS (can't I get both in one receiver?). I am a movie buff and love good special effects in the sound. I am also a music fan and listen to all types of music from classical to R&R and blues but as a classical organist, I do listen to a lot of pipe organ music which, although its hardly anybody's favorite music, takes quite a system given the fullness of the sound and extremes in highs and lows. Does anyone have any suggestions or perhaps a favorite? When playing classical music (particularly organ), I also use this really ancient digital delay from the mid 1970's which requires a second amp and another set of rears. I use this because the old digital delays have a feature which (unfortunately) none of the new ones have: while you can adjust the delay on both old and new, it seems that only the old units have the capacity to adjust the "decay" which truly gives a more authentic concert hall or cathedral sound. Does anyone know of any new units that can do this? At any rate, I really would appreciate some advice and opinions. What would drive my Mirages best? Which has the best sound quality, which has the best sourround processing and DTS? Which is better, Denon or Yamaha or do you have a prefer something else? I've done so much reading that I've only managed to confuse myself! I would appreciate any opinion anyone cares to give. Thanks! ... Gerry
Gerry, I can only say my oppinions, and none are FACT. I greatly perfer Denon to other recievers. I own the 3805 and it is everything i could want at this time. When it comes to sound quality and listening to organ music with delay, both have a number of DSP modes, the Yamaha has more, but more isn't better. I never use any of mine, but you might like the some of them with the music you have mentioned. Also, Yamaha does not have better DTS or surround processing then the Denon. Those should be equal on both. The processing is the same. Yamaha has more DSP surround modes and gives you more choices there. What is supperior is Denon's duel Burr-Brown 192k DAC's (digital to Analog converters) on all 8 channels. This is High End equipment for only around a thousand bucks or so. This makes all the difference. That and 120 watts of very clean discrete power for EACH 7 channels. You sound like you love your music as well as movies. I do too. You will love the "Direct" and "Pure Direct" modes. These shut down all possible video noise. If your music is coming from a HIGH END source, the Denon 3805 will act as a stand alone amplifier with no other interference. It will make a difference, I have heard it! The Denon 3805 and 2805 are also so very easy to use and set up compared to most recievers. The on-screen menus are straight forward and make sence. I set-up a friends Harmon Kardon last week and it was so confusing! We also have a yamaha at my work (older molder with no on screen) and i really just don't like it. I have noticed that Yamaha puts lots of effort into "fluff". I mean the like to add tons of DSP modes, that just distort the sound anyways, and have even added extra "fronts" to the reciever for "extra" effects. This is not how movies are made and not how you are supposed to hear them. So why pay for extra stuff that is not even supposed to be there, it's marketing hype! I feel Denon is matched by none. I know a number of people who own one, new and old, and everyone I know either loves their unit or wants to upgrade to another Denon. I know this is very one sided but it's just my opinion. I hope i didn't piss off you Yamaha lovers! That wasn't my intention.
Denon 3805: Thanks for the advice, Razz 1234! I did get the Denon 3805 after all. I finally found a place where I could compare both the Denon and the Yamaha through Mirage's similar to mine and far prefered the Denon; you were absolutely right in everything you wrote. (Just for a little comic relief: when I asked the salesman at Teeter's if I could bi-wire my speakers with the Denon as I knew I could with the Yamaha, he replied that the brand made no difference and that I could "buy wire" for any speaker regardless of the receiver's brand!!) Lord, I thought I was technologically challenged! The sound is spectacular and it was easy to set up (albeit with a little patience). I am having one problem though: I can't seem to get the receiver's monitor out to work properly. I've got both my VCR and DVD's S-viodeo outs connected to the proper S-video inputs on the receiver: I get no picture at all from the DVD and the picture from the VCR is terrible. Naturally, I've got the S-Video monitor out to the TV. I can't figure out why this is happening. If I disconnect the two S-Video outs from the receiver and connect them directly to the video inputs on the TV, the picture from both is perfect. Same problem exists if I use RCA plugs...sound is perfect but picture is terrible or nonexistant. What am I doing wrong? For the moment, I've got the audio connected to the Denon (and its awesome)but I've got the "video outs" connected to the inputs of my TV ... I've even got the Denon connected to yet a third TV input to read the on screen menu options. It works fine but I'd rather connect it properly. Any suggestions? My guess is that the fault lies in the original setup; I confess that I'm one of those technologically challenged sorts and a couple of things in the set up were over my head and not explained in the instructions. If I may try your patience with one more thing: for the moment, I've got speakers connected only to the "Surround A" speakers; they are omnipolar Mirage OM-R2 which seem quite compatible with the suggestions made in the manual; in the initial setup, I selected "none" for the surround B. Denon suggests direct radiating monopolar speakers for "Surround B" speakers placed directly behind to enhance music while "Surround A" omnipolar on the sides for cinema. Razz, (or anyone), is this just a gimmick or does it make an appreciable difference? I don't want to mix my speakers and Mirage does make a compatible direct radiating surround speaker but I hate to go out and spend an extra few hundred bucks if the advantage is negligible and just a gimmick. Thanks!! ... Gerry
GOOD FOR YOU GERRY!!!!!! You will love it.... First off... the video problem you are having does not seem right, obviously. You mentioned that connecting the DVD directly to the TV gives you a good picture. Are you connecting the Denon's monitor out s-video cable to the [bold]exact[/bold] same S-video input on the TV that you were using with the DVD player? Also, play with your TV and check menues under input for video 1 or video 2 or something like that. Try [bold]only[/bold] connecting the s-video to the TV, no other inputs. If none of these work then is it sounds like it's a problem with the Denon unit itself. It would be unlikely but possible. If you can't fix it by using the same input on your TV, changing the "input mode" on the TV, disconnecting everthing else, or by using a different s-video cable (one know to work well), I would bring it back to the store and have them hook up video to a dvd or other source see what happens. It sounds like you are doing the right things. The fact that you are reading the on-screen menues on another TV leads me to beleive the fault lies somewhere in your current TV set-up menu or s-video cable. Now, about the surround A and B. You can use either, nice thing about the Denon is you can assign a speaker to both and listen to either A or B or listen to Both at the same time and all with Equal power!!!!!!!! That is so cool!!!!!! But what they are talking about when they mention movies compared to music is [bold]some[/bold] people like to listen to music with [bold]only[/bold] direct radiating speakers and listen to movies with polar speakers. This just becomes an upgraded feature for those people. That way they can, if wanted to, watch a movie with omi, bi, or di - polor speakers (like yours & mine). Then very easily listen to music afterwards by using 5 direct radiating speakers. NO SET UP OR SWITCHING NEEDED Now here is the deal.... Most reviewers and sales guys like to say, "direct radiating speakers when listening to music" and "polar speakers when listening to movies".... BUT, I have read an artical in Stereofile Mag. that did blind studies on "what sounded better" Direct radiating music in a 5 speaker setup or bi/di/omi polar speakers in a 5 speaker setup. When listening the 5 speakers (home theater) the bi/di/omi speakers won out by a favoratable margin. It's a more "difuse" sound and thats what you get already when using more than 2 speakers. So it kind of makes sense. Again, this is one of those prefferences. Personally, I have not set up an additional 2 direct radiating speakers in my room (wife would kill me). Instead run two speakers outside and use it as a second source. Let me know what happens with that video problem Russ
Thanks again for all the assistance, Russ! I couldn't be happier with my choice. I'm away from home and will have to tackle the video issue when I get home; I'll let you know how I made out in a few days. I seriously doubt that its the Denon; it was the last thing that I had done and when I'm past the burn out point, I can overlook something really blatent no matter how often I check it out. I'll start anew with that when I return. Thanks again!! ... Gerry
Have either one of you all have any fact or opionions on Paradigm or Eclipch speakers. I thought about using them with my Denon 2805. thanks for all the advice above.
Hello Hammer! I wish that I could answer your question but I cannot. To be sure, some speakers are better than others but it does get to the point with the higher end stuff that it's all very subjective; great quality will be there in all the products but it becomes a matter of personal taste...it seems to me that is particularly true with speakers. My friend loves Polk but I think they're too harsh; I love Mirage because, to me, they're more color neutral and less directional; he doesn't like them. There is a web site: audioholics.com/productreviews which I really like and they'll probably explain some things about your 2805 which you would also find very interesting. Just FYI, if there is a Tweeter in your area, they have great sales at the end of February or the beginning of March. It tends to be a pricy place narmally but the new models come in at that time and their sale in late Feb or early March is second to none. In Philly, anyway, Tweeter's customers don't come in to but last year's stuff so they must sell the stuff at near cost just to get it out of the store. I imagine it's the same everywhere. Check them out if you can wait that long for new speakers and check out audioholics.com ...they've got great reviews and I'm particularly fond of a reviewer named Clint DeBoer because I can understand most of what he says. Hope you get something really nice! ... Gerry
hammer, here is my opinion about good/affordable speakers. It looks like you were part of this string but here it is anyways. http://forums.afterdawn.com/thread_view.cfm/129057 Gerry, Nice site, thanks. hammer.....check out the "paradigm" line under the site Gerry pointed out got to "speakers....then Main".... The whole line seems to rate VERY high.
Hi Russ! Russ, when you set up the EQ on your Denon, did you use the auto/microphone or did you use your ears? I'm curious to know what you thought of the microphone if you used it. Hope all is well with you ... Gerry
I'm not sure what to think about the EQ. I haven't sat down and spent the time with it that I should have. Mabey over the hollidays! I have read a one review that said they did not care for the EQ and read another that said he loved it. It did change the sound of my fronts a bit and I changed it back..... I honestly couldn't tell which I liked better, lol. But when it comes to the Auto Set-up I used it and that's a nice feature. Normaly in the past I sat down with my sound meter and set it up my self. I must admit, I went back to it to check the set-up manually and it was pretty much the same as I would have made it, except for my Sub. Auto set-up placed my sub much farther away than it really is so I changed that back. I don't know if I should or not but it was off by like 10 feet. Still, it's always nice to turn a channel up or down every now and then if you perfer by just using the center button on the remote, I love that. Some movies sound so different and on occasion i turn up the center channel to hear more dialog and less music and effects. Another way to do this is by compressing the sound in the set up menu, but i just hate the thought of that, lol. Another thing it did was change my surrounds from small to large. I have always set them at small thinking that it would have less drain on the reciever but having 120w equal power to each I have finally said "Why the hell not???" And I like them even better set to large now. So to sum up Gerry, if you have a sound meter, the Auto-set up is really unnecessary. You mentioned doing it by ear....go to Radio Shack and pick up a A/C weighted sound meter. There around $20-$30 bucks. It's worth it and kind of fun to use.
Hi Russ! Just a note to let you know that I solved the video problem; it was the TV after all. Upon returning, I borrowed my friend's little kitchen portable and it worked like a charm. Transfered the S Video cable from his TV to mine and nothing. Its really stange, the VCR and DVD will work properly conntected to the TV but connected to the Receiver then to the TV and it just won't take the signal. TV is rather old. Has just one S Video in and three RCA inputs. It wouldn't work in two of the RC inputs either but finally worked on the third. Who can figure? Hope you had a great Christmas! ... Gerry
