Sorry Surface Pro owners, your tablet is un-repairable

Holy #$%^ 90 screws dang

Microsoft screwed up.

Microsoft. Screwing our customers since 1975.

Not bad for a tablet in that price tag, huh? It seems to me that they took example of Crapple. The more expensive the device is, the less repairable it must be. If it breaks, buy another. It's just $1000.

This article is a bit misleading: to no offense of the writer. The reason I say so is do we have confirmation the device hardware was manufactured and assembled by MS?

Originally posted by Mysttic:

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This article is a bit misleading: to no offense of the writer. The reason I say so is do we have confirmation the device hardware was manufactured and assembled by MS?

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What's your point? Of course Microsoft does not manufacture or assemble anything. Neither do Apple, HP, Dell, or anyone with any of their devices. They just don't have the factories to do that. But Microsoft has presumably designed this one, and they put their brand on it. So it is, for all purposes, a Microsoft device. It's them who are actually selling it as their own. So, should we stop complaining at them just because it was assembled by somebody else? It's their fault, and theirs only.

It doesn't matter who manufactured it. The point is that M$ designed this and agreed to launch it this way.

The fact that one day a battery change may be necessary in these devices (and cause replacement of other parts) makes me never want to even buy this or suggest this to anyone.

Originally posted by PraisesToAllah:

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It doesn't matter who manufactured it. The point is that M$ designed this and agreed to launch it this way.

The fact that one day a battery change may be necessary in these devices (and cause replacement of other parts) makes me never want to even buy this or suggest this to anyone.

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Same here.

Originally posted by PraisesToAllah:

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It doesn't matter who manufactured it. The point is that M$ designed this and agreed to launch it this way.

The fact that one day a battery change may be necessary in these devices (and cause replacement of other parts) makes me never want to even buy this or suggest this to anyone.

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There is no maybe about it, all batteries have a certain lifespan. In 5~10 years all these and to be fair most tablets of any variety will die. I really can't believe there hasn't been more of a environmental up-roar about this. None of these can be fixed/upgraded/modified at all.

I'm a hardcore of gamer that updates his CPU every year . Apple was right about a lot of things . Flash / removable batteries / upgradable hardware.
I'm sorry but upgrading laptop/tablets hardware is the stupidest thing on earth. Steve jobs knew its a waste of time

My point is this: MS only error may be in who was hired to assemble their product. I not saying be nice to MS, anyone who's read anything I had to post on MS knows I not a fan; what I saying is cast blame where it deserves to go.

Still you have a point that MS allowed it to go in production without over looking the obvious flaws, but now I'll play devil's advocate and point out why they would let it go.

Tablets are becoming more and more like cellular devices in that once the next great thing is out, the previous generation are tossed. They are rarely kept by the same consumer who upgrades, so why care about battery replacement? They are banking on the returns will be very minimal when they get into people's hands; and whether or a smart move or not; MS is not the first company to make it difficult to upgrade or do replacements for parts.

This isn't a PC and should not be treated as such as it's a glorified mobile device that imo, has been over-rated from the start, even with the small praise it's gotten. But lets just be honest about one thing shall we? No business these days care about what their consumer thinks or wants, it about a business creating the next "hype" to make you believe you want it. It's about gaining your $, not granting every consumer wish on the planet: they took this one from Apple, so in the end any consumer who buys this without doing their research only has themselves to blame, not MS, and getting mad at MS for a poor decision into buying this device, is your own fault and nobody (NOBODY) else's.

all in all it dont matter, MS has once again put there name on Junk.
but there are ALOT of dumb people out there that fall for this crap and buy it. they pay 5 paychecks worth to buy it, and its no better than a mini netbook, except the netbook is REPAIRABLE lol.

i will never buy a pile of junk like that.

but hey, long live dumb people so ms stays in business.

Originally posted by Mysttic:

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My point is this: MS only error may be in who was hired to assemble their product.

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Like the others said, Microsoft designed the Surface Pro. It's not like they just went to some company, rattled off a vague list of specs and said "Surprise us!" If the Surface Pro has 90 screws and a non-removable battery, rest assured that's exactly how Microsoft designed it to be.

The company they hire to assemble it has no real say in how it's put together -- they just do what the people with money tell them to do.

The whole reason Microsoft surface pro is so hard to fix is because it a complex device. Its built to be compact but powerful enough. If your surface breaks then its Microsoft responsibility to fix it. No sweat off the owners back. Its really annoying when people just talk crap to talk crap. Or unless they are misinformed. Which is worse.

Originally posted by 1nsan3:

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all in all it dont matter, MS has once again put there name on Junk.
but there are ALOT of dumb people out there that fall for this crap and buy it. they pay 5 paychecks worth to buy it, and its no better than a mini netbook, except the netbook is REPAIRABLE lol.

i will never buy a pile of junk like that.

but hey, long live dumb people so ms stays in business.

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look at this smart guy.

Originally posted by xvd85:

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The whole reason Microsoft surface pro is so hard to fix is because it a complex device. Its built to be compact but powerful enough. If your surface breaks then its Microsoft responsibility to fix it. No sweat off the owners back. Its really annoying when people just talk crap to talk crap. Or unless they are misinformed. Which is worse.

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If it breaks during the warranty period, Microsoft will fix it for free. But, if whatever that has been broken is not covered by warranty (screen crashed by accident, for instance), or it breaks AFTER the warranty has expired (and I may wish from an over $1000 gadget to last more than a couple of years), or its battery dies after 5 minutes of regular use (and, remember, batteries are commonly covered only by a half-year warranty), what?

This is nothing but a book example of bad practice; a bad design, intended to prevent the consumers from repairing a faulty or broken device. Period.

I don't know why I bother, anyway. There'll be always be people defending the undefendable.

Originally posted by nonoitall:

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Originally posted by Mysttic:

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My point is this: MS only error may be in who was hired to assemble their product.

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Like the others said, Microsoft designed the Surface Pro. It's not like they just went to some company, rattled off a vague list of specs and said "Surprise us!" If the Surface Pro has 90 screws and a non-removable battery, rest assured that's exactly how Microsoft designed it to be.

The company they hire to assemble it has no real say in how it's put together -- they just do what the people with money tell them to do.

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Exactly.

The remaining of what Mysttic said just backs up my opinion. If anyone wants a Win8-based tablet, better wait until any other brand builds it in the right way. As a consumer, I don't like to be treated as a fool, so this one isn't for me.

Originally posted by buddyleem:

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I'm a hardcore of gamer that updates his CPU every year . Apple was right about a lot of things...

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A hardcore gamer on a Mac??
ROFLMAO

Originally posted by Jemborg:

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Originally posted by buddyleem:

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I'm a hardcore of gamer that updates his CPU every year . Apple was right about a lot of things...

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A hardcore gamer on a Mac??
ROFLMAO

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But he didn't mean that, really. Well, I think he didn't. Ehm... Wait... What did he mean?

Hey, Jemborg, just to clarify a bit, what are you calling "CPU", the entire system or the actual CPU?

Of course, you're right on one thing: Apple does what it has to do to make more profit, making their hardware less and less serviceable (it has not been upgradeable since aeons ago, technologically speaking). At least, while their customers are still so dumb to continue buying their crap that blindly.

But Microsoft, the better or the worse it is as a company, is far from being Apple. And I'm afraid that their customers won't react in the same way as this unrepairability issues spread. Apple fanboys buy whatever they put out, even if it's a horse turd all lacquered in white. Microsoft customers are far more critical on what they expect and demand from their products.

Microsoft banks on their corporate partners. Who remind me a lot of apple fanboys now that you mention it. Just not that they want to be loyal, they have to, as that's how their business has been built. You can't pull the structure away from an OS or a business without the whole thing falling down. By microsoft following Apples lead on non serviceable equipment, on top of Windows 8 and it's big FU to old school decades established business techniques they may just find themselves kicked out of most companies within a few years.

Originally posted by dali:

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Originally posted by Jemborg:

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Originally posted by buddyleem:

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I'm a hardcore of gamer that updates his CPU every year . Apple was right about a lot of things...

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A hardcore gamer on a Mac??
ROFLMAO

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But he didn't mean that, really. Well, I think he didn't. Ehm... Wait... What did he mean?

Hey, Jemborg, just to clarify a bit, what are you calling "CPU", the entire system or the actual CPU?

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Dali, If IF Buddyleem is a MacHead then "updating" his CPU would amount to the entire system naturally. So I guess that's what he noobishly means.

Coz mac enthusiasts spend so much they have to justify it emotionally by buying into the whole wasteful Apple ethos. It IS possible to whack in more ram and a new (hopefully compatible) gfx card into a (really expensive) Mac workstation, but good luck with multiple gfx cards or oversized ones. And you can forget about overclocking effectively or watercooling etc etc.

I get commissioned to build gaming systems all the time btw. If Buddy wanted me to I could probably build him a top-quality rig that would be twice as powerful at half the price with a Mac OS dualboot too and proper quality Sata3 SSDs etc etc. (And, yes, a Thunderbolt port).

PS: If Buddy is not a MacHead gamer then I have no idea what he is getting at either btw.

PPS: Another issue is that the DirectX libraries are very comprehensive and OpenGL has some catching up to do there (not that it can't). So gaming on a Mac with similar specs is not as good by default... even they admit it.

Originally posted by Qliphah:

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(...) By microsoft following Apples lead on non serviceable equipment, on top of Windows 8 and it's big FU to old school decades established business techniques they may just find themselves kicked out of most companies within a few years.

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Agreed. As I said, Microsoft is not Apple, but they keep on copying their whole business model, which is mainly wrong because of the assumption that the consumer is a fool who will pay for whatever crap he or she doesn't really need, like those yearly upgrades for the upcoming "Windows Blue". And all these practices are only making them go down in behalf of Linux. In fact, that is happening right now, really fast. In order to prevent it, or at least slow down an eventual, yet most certain, massive migration of users from the Windows platform to another, if not too late already, they need to get rid of Steve Ballmer the sooner the better.

Originally posted by Jemborg:

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Dali, If IF Buddyleem is a MacHead then "updating" his CPU would amount to the entire system naturally. So I guess that's what he noobishly means.

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Yes, I'm sorry, I mistakenly addressed my inquiry to your nickname instead of his. I was a bit confused, and contributed to even more confusion because of the nested quotes. My bad. (Of course, if it was not clear enough, I pretty much agree with you, Jemborg).

Originally posted by Mysttic:

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My point is this: MS only error may be in who was hired to assemble their product. I not saying be nice to MS, anyone who's read anything I had to post on MS knows I not a fan; what I saying is cast blame where it deserves to go.

Still you have a point that MS allowed it to go in production without over looking the obvious flaws, but now I'll play devil's advocate and point out why they would let it go.

Tablets are becoming more and more like cellular devices in that once the next great thing is out, the previous generation are tossed. They are rarely kept by the same consumer who upgrades, so why care about battery replacement? They are banking on the returns will be very minimal when they get into people's hands; and whether or a smart move or not; MS is not the first company to make it difficult to upgrade or do replacements for parts.

This isn't a PC and should not be treated as such as it's a glorified mobile device that imo, has been over-rated from the start, even with the small praise it's gotten. But lets just be honest about one thing shall we? No business these days care about what their consumer thinks or wants, it about a business creating the next "hype" to make you believe you want it. It's about gaining your $, not granting every consumer wish on the planet: they took this one from Apple, so in the end any consumer who buys this without doing their research only has themselves to blame, not MS, and getting mad at MS for a poor decision into buying this device, is your own fault and nobody (NOBODY) else's.

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If you are DUMB enough to believe that people should just toss a tablet when the battery goes out...one they paid $500.00 or more for, I feel sorry for you.

You sound like a marketing department for tablets...when one goes out...just toss it, after all we have a brand NEW one we can sell you. ONLY $500.00.........AGAIN!

Stupid, stupid argument.

Making these tablets unrepairable is a good way to lose your customer base when they go out.

Apple stocks are dropping because they have quit innovating and re-produce the same stuff over and over....it will not be long before other tablets built like this are having battery problems. Then what? Be a "sheepole" and buy another?

Originally posted by joebloe12:

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If you are DUMB enough to believe that people should just toss a tablet when the battery goes out...one they paid $500.00 or more for, I feel sorry for you.

You sound like a marketing department for tablets...when one goes out...just toss it, after all we have a brand NEW one we can sell you. ONLY $500.00.........AGAIN!

Stupid, stupid argument.

Making these tablets unrepairable is a good way to lose your customer base when they go out.

Apple stocks are dropping because they have quit innovating and re-produce the same stuff over and over....it will not be long before other tablets built like this are having battery problems. Then what? Be a "sheepole" and buy another?

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Did you miss the point I said, playing Devils Advocate, do you even know what that means; why don't you READ before calling someone stupid, and if you don't know what something defines as, ASK. It only makes you sound off as retarded, there's a reason there are two sides to an argument, else it's not called an argument. I didn't say I believe it should be done, I said MS and other companies do, so get your stick out of your....

This message double posted; my apologies.

Originally posted by Mysttic:

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Originally posted by joebloe12:

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If you are DUMB enough to believe that people should just toss a tablet when the battery goes out...one they paid $500.00 or more for, I feel sorry for you.

You sound like a marketing department for tablets...when one goes out...just toss it, after all we have a brand NEW one we can sell you. ONLY $500.00.........AGAIN!

Stupid, stupid argument.

Making these tablets unrepairable is a good way to lose your customer base when they go out.

Apple stocks are dropping because they have quit innovating and re-produce the same stuff over and over....it will not be long before other tablets built like this are having battery problems. Then what? Be a "sheepole" and buy another?

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Did you miss the point I said, playing Devils Advocate, do you even know what that means; why don't you READ before calling someone stupid, and if you don't know what something defines as, ASK. It only makes you sound off as retarded, there's a reason there are two sides to an argument, else it's not called an argument. I didn't say I believe it should be done, I said MS and other companies do, so get your stick out of your....

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You still sound idiotic. Even if f you WERE just playing devils advocate, your argument is STILL STUPID! Doesn't matter if you meant it or not... the argument was idiotic.

There is simply NO ROOM for this kind of thinking. If people want to buy a tablet knowing it will go out in a few years then that is one thing, but the way the tablet manufacturers are making them, is a very good way to lose their customer base.

Making something throw away like a tablet is simply idiotic, period!

I could care less if you agree with that or not, it is the truth.

And take the stick out of your brain and you may see that!

Originally posted by joebloe12:

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And take the stick out of your brain and you may see that!

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Please chill out joebloe. Mysttic is a good bloke and you're over-reacting to his comments. Playing devil's advocate does not mean he sympathises with what he perceives as M$'s perspective. And, let's face it, they are taking a page from Apple's playbook here.

Focus on Aaron Swartz's persecution and death if you want to indulge in outrage... this is hardly worth your valuable time.


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