AfterDawn Forums

help figuring out PI/PIF scan results

This discussion thread has 60 messages.

#1
OK, the deal is that I bought a batch of Ritek G04 media a while back for pretty cheap ($100 for 300). For movies they seem to work just fine, but what has me questioning their integrity is when I burn PS2 games, they don't work as realiably as my last batch did. So, I burned a movie at 4x and scanned it. Here are the results, the problem is that I don't know how to figure out these graphs. So if anyone knows how and would like to help me out, I'd greatly appreciate it. Let me know your feedback, I can scan other movies or PS2 games if need be. Thanks in advance everyone.




Convert PAL to NTSC or NTSC to PAL------>http://forums.afterdawn.com/thread_view.cfm/167922
ScubaPete's guides------>http://www.dvdplusvideo.com/tutorial007.html
Bbmayo's guides------>http://home.comcast.net/~bbmayo/index.html

My ever-growing movie collection------>http://www.intervocative.com/dvdcollection.aspx/squizzle
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#2
Your PIE and PIF's both look really high compared to my normal results using Nero DVD Speed. I generally on an average burn have the following:
PI Errors Average >1 to ~6
PI Error Peak ~10-20
PI Failure Peak 1 or 2 (very rarely do I get more than this)
PI Failures total (varies by media ID) TYG02 ~7-30; YUDEN002 ~80-300; MCC/Verbatims ~80-250; RITEK G05(Sony Taiwan) ~80-300.

2.4 Celeron;512k ram; 80gig HD; 60gig HD; Windows XP(SP1).
Sony DRU-710A (BYX4)
DVD Shrink/DVD Decrypter.
TYG02;YUDEN002;MCC blanks.
Favorite Media: Sony 8x+R(MADE IN JAPAN)

Laptop: 1.4 Ghz;256k ram; 40 gig HD;Windows XP
NEC ND-6650A Burner
#3
try scanning with cd/dvd speed and see what you get
PIF peak is pretty high
PI peak is not real good either
#4
@squizzle, i think i can see what's goin on there, though i tend to understand kprobe a little better - see first link in my sig, the clues are all in there..yours doesn't look too bad. If you want real bad scans, there's 2 guinness book of records examples in that link.
This message has been edited since its posting. Latest edit was made on 14 Jun 2005 @ 5:07



Main PC ~ Intel C2Q Q6600 (G0 Stepping)/Gigabyte GA-EP45-DS3/2GB Crucial Ballistix PC2-8500/Zalman CNPS9700/Antec 900/Corsair HX 620W
Network ~ DD-WRT ~ 2node WDS-WPA2/AES ~ Buffalo WHR-G54S. 3node WPA2/AES ~ WRT54GS v6 (inc. WEP BSSID), WRT54G v2, WRT54G2 v1. *** Forum Rules ***
#5
wow creaky, that first scan you did looks horrible. I will do some kprobe scans and post results here. Thanks for help everyone!

Convert PAL to NTSC or NTSC to PAL------>http://forums.afterdawn.com/thread_view.cfm/167922
ScubaPete's guides------>http://www.dvdplusvideo.com/tutorial007.html
Bbmayo's guides------>http://home.comcast.net/~bbmayo/index.html

My ever-growing movie collection------>http://www.intervocative.com/dvdcollection.aspx/squizzle
#6
horrible don't come close!, that scan is like there's no disc to put the film onto, there's like a millimetre t hat isn't bad, plus the numbers are way up there in the 1000s.

grumble *BULKPAQ* grumble *FAKE* grumble :)



Main PC ~ Intel C2Q Q6600 (G0 Stepping)/Gigabyte GA-EP45-DS3/2GB Crucial Ballistix PC2-8500/Zalman CNPS9700/Antec 900/Corsair HX 620W
Network ~ DD-WRT ~ 2node WDS-WPA2/AES ~ Buffalo WHR-G54S. 3node WPA2/AES ~ WRT54GS v6 (inc. WEP BSSID), WRT54G v2, WRT54G2 v1. *** Forum Rules ***
#7
OK guys, here's some results to compare. This first one here is from a movie burned at 4x on a different batch of Ritek G04, ones that didn't give me any problems at all:



Now here's a PS2 game burned at 1x. I can't remember exactly if they were the good batch or the questionable batch:



Now here's another movie, burned at 4x from the batch I'm questioning:



And this last one's from a game that only works about 10% of the time, can't remember if it was burned at 1x or 2x, pretty sure it was 1x though:



Up until recently, I used to backup my PS2 games without even checking them and being confident that they came out beautiful. Now I'm feeling the exact opposite. Your feedback is greatly appreciated. Thanks!

Convert PAL to NTSC or NTSC to PAL------>http://forums.afterdawn.com/thread_view.cfm/167922
ScubaPete's guides------>http://www.dvdplusvideo.com/tutorial007.html
Bbmayo's guides------>http://home.comcast.net/~bbmayo/index.html

My ever-growing movie collection------>http://www.intervocative.com/dvdcollection.aspx/squizzle
#8
WOW, all of those look pretty bad to me! I need to use CMC's to hit the +1000 PIF range. Does KProbe and DVD Speed usually agree on totals????

2.4 Celeron;512k ram; 80gig HD; 60gig HD; Windows XP(SP1).
Sony DRU-710A (BYX4)
DVD Shrink/DVD Decrypter.
TYG02;YUDEN002;MCC blanks.
Favorite Media: Sony 8x+R(MADE IN JAPAN)

Laptop: 1.4 Ghz;256k ram; 40 gig HD;Windows XP
NEC ND-6650A Burner
#9
Yes, i am a newbie, but i do know that if you're not over 280 for ur PI peak you dont have a problem.
#10
Do PS2 games usually come out that different than movies? It seems that both PS2 scans came out with very high PI results (I'm assuming those are errors of some sort) and both movies came out with fairly low PI results. Also, my first post with the DVD Info Pro scan was the same movie as my 3rd kprobe scan. DVD Info Pro said 169 for peak PI, but kprobe said 68. I wonder what's up with that. Maybe a different scanning method or something? Another thing I noticed is that at the bottom, all my kprobe scans say NoDisc except the second one, which says Ritek G04. I wonder what's up with that.

Convert PAL to NTSC or NTSC to PAL------>http://forums.afterdawn.com/thread_view.cfm/167922
ScubaPete's guides------>http://www.dvdplusvideo.com/tutorial007.html
Bbmayo's guides------>http://home.comcast.net/~bbmayo/index.html

My ever-growing movie collection------>http://www.intervocative.com/dvdcollection.aspx/squizzle
#11
hmm, must be something different with scanning because all my dvdinfo pro results were diff then the kprobe results, except that dvdinfo pro was lower and kprobe was higher...odd.
#12
i think the various scanning utilities vary in accuracy and results, i don't know which one is "MORE ACCURATE" per say, but, im pretty happy w/ my Kprobe scans, i feel they give a good indication as to the quality of my backups~

@squizzle

PMe'd you back, i don't have any experience with ps2 backups/ any console games backups, but, the graphs you put up are decent to average in quality, but, my TY and Verb scans are consistently much better~ :) im sure there are PLENTY of people on here more experienced than i am in kprobe/ PI/PIF scan results, i am only a beginner in that department~ :)

Recommended Media:

Taiyo Yuden 4x dvd-r TYGO1/ 8x dvd-r TYGO2/ 8x dvd+r YUDEN000T02/ 16x dvd+r YUDEN000T03
Verbatim 8x dvd+r MCC003
Verbatim dvd+r DL (MKM001)= flawless no compression backups
"Do Yourself A Favor, Use The Good Stuff
TY & Verbs 4 Life~ :)" ~docTY~
"Its better to be quiet and appear stupid, then to open your mouth and remove all doubt."
I am always prepared to recognize that there can be two points of view - mine and one that is probably wrong - John Gorton
#13
Have you tried a scan on a Yuden disc yet? My TYG02's come out nearly flawless on movies....not sure how they would rate on PS2 though...

2.4 Celeron;512k ram; 80gig HD; 60gig HD; Windows XP(SP1).
Sony DRU-710A (BYX4)
DVD Shrink/DVD Decrypter.
TYG02;YUDEN002;MCC blanks.
Favorite Media: Sony 8x+R(MADE IN JAPAN)

Laptop: 1.4 Ghz;256k ram; 40 gig HD;Windows XP
NEC ND-6650A Burner
#14
@squizzle - from the 1st link in my sig -
Quote:
Use this as a guideline for good discs:
PI (Parity Inner): No larger areas on the disc should exceed 280 PI errors, do not worry too much about high single spikes that exceeds 280.
PO (Parity Outer): No larger areas on the disc should exceed 32 PO (actually PI uncorrectable) errors, do not worry too much about high single spikes that exceeds 32


- i don't like the look of the red clumps in your red (PIF) readings, compare to mine, they should be very infrequent. hmmm...

However some of the blue clumps (PI) aren't too bad, it's the numbers that are important there, ie below 280 PI errors.

I too haven't done any PS2 backing up, but i believe most ppl do real slow speed burning to get good results on the PS2 (which you are doing anyway). This would be for decent playback/use on the PS2, i guess due to the PS2 lasers being a tad picky. But as to PS2 games coming out different to movie burning, i wouldn't have thought there's not much in it.



Main PC ~ Intel C2Q Q6600 (G0 Stepping)/Gigabyte GA-EP45-DS3/2GB Crucial Ballistix PC2-8500/Zalman CNPS9700/Antec 900/Corsair HX 620W
Network ~ DD-WRT ~ 2node WDS-WPA2/AES ~ Buffalo WHR-G54S. 3node WPA2/AES ~ WRT54GS v6 (inc. WEP BSSID), WRT54G v2, WRT54G2 v1. *** Forum Rules ***
#15
@akyllonen - check thru the 1st link in my sig, i've done some TY scanning, among others



Main PC ~ Intel C2Q Q6600 (G0 Stepping)/Gigabyte GA-EP45-DS3/2GB Crucial Ballistix PC2-8500/Zalman CNPS9700/Antec 900/Corsair HX 620W
Network ~ DD-WRT ~ 2node WDS-WPA2/AES ~ Buffalo WHR-G54S. 3node WPA2/AES ~ WRT54GS v6 (inc. WEP BSSID), WRT54G v2, WRT54G2 v1. *** Forum Rules ***
#16
I haven't used any TY DVDR yet, but I will order some today, hopefully they're here in about a week or so, and I'll burn and scan then. I have a feeling everything will be OK once I get the TY discs.

Thanks for all the feedback again guys!

Convert PAL to NTSC or NTSC to PAL------>http://forums.afterdawn.com/thread_view.cfm/167922
ScubaPete's guides------>http://www.dvdplusvideo.com/tutorial007.html
Bbmayo's guides------>http://home.comcast.net/~bbmayo/index.html

My ever-growing movie collection------>http://www.intervocative.com/dvdcollection.aspx/squizzle
#17
Hi squiz,

I agree with creaky as I also do not like the clumps on the PIF graph. It's said PI under 280 and PIF under 4 is considered acceptable. The PI errors all clumped togather is not so bad but the PIF errors should be much more spread out with an ocasional spike over 4 being acceptable.

I quit useing ritek dvd-r's long ago due to incosistancys (my litey never really liked them) and went to their dvd+r's which I found much more consistant (and of course I could booktype these dvd-rom). Now it's only verb, ty, and an occassional prodisc dvd+r hub printables. The prodiscs even scan out better than the ritek dvd-r's did. I don't recommend prodisc because my litey doesn't like them either but my benq burns them just fine. Here's a scan of a prodisc (worst media I'm currently useing) burned with my benq.


This message has been edited since its posting. Latest edit was made on 15 Jun 2005 @ 8:48

Rig #1 Asus Rampage Formula Mobo, Intel Core2Quad Q9450 CPU @ 3.55ghz, 2gb Corsair DDR2 1066 Dominator Ram @ 5-5-5-15, TR Ultra 120 Extreme w/ Scythe 9 blade 110 cfm 120mm Fan HSF, HIS Radeon 512mb HD3850 IceQ TurboX GPU, Corsair 620HX P/S, CM Stacker 830 Evo Case, Rig #2 Asus P5W DH Deluxe Mobo, Intel C2D E6600 CPU @ 3.6ghz, 2gb Corsair XMS2 DDR2 800 Ram @ 4-4-4-12-2t, Zalman CNPS9500LED HSF, Sapphire Radeon X850XT PE GPU, Corsair 620HX P/S, Cooler Master Mystique Case, Viewsonic 20.1" Widescreen Digital LCD Monitor, Klipsch Promedia Ultra 5.1 THX Desktop Speakers, http://valid.x86-secret.com/show_oc.php?id=348351 http://valid.x86-secret.com/show_oc.php?id=236435
#18
posted another TY scan -

Burnt another of my TY 8x at 4x for the Aviator -

- none too shabby.

Dunno why it states 2x though, blummin' computers, pah!

edit- redid the scan at 4x. that big splodge at the beginning of disc is where i was multitasking during the burn(that'll teach me) and the Nero buffers dropped somewhat. I'm gonna CRC check the disc out of paranoia as haven't watched the disc yet but can always reburn if needed.
This message has been edited since its posting. Latest edit was made on 15 Jun 2005 @ 12:32



Main PC ~ Intel C2Q Q6600 (G0 Stepping)/Gigabyte GA-EP45-DS3/2GB Crucial Ballistix PC2-8500/Zalman CNPS9700/Antec 900/Corsair HX 620W
Network ~ DD-WRT ~ 2node WDS-WPA2/AES ~ Buffalo WHR-G54S. 3node WPA2/AES ~ WRT54GS v6 (inc. WEP BSSID), WRT54G v2, WRT54G2 v1. *** Forum Rules ***
#19
Creaky thats the speed you scanned at. You can adjust that. 4x is the common speed for comparison.

Rig #1 Asus Rampage Formula Mobo, Intel Core2Quad Q9450 CPU @ 3.55ghz, 2gb Corsair DDR2 1066 Dominator Ram @ 5-5-5-15, TR Ultra 120 Extreme w/ Scythe 9 blade 110 cfm 120mm Fan HSF, HIS Radeon 512mb HD3850 IceQ TurboX GPU, Corsair 620HX P/S, CM Stacker 830 Evo Case, Rig #2 Asus P5W DH Deluxe Mobo, Intel C2D E6600 CPU @ 3.6ghz, 2gb Corsair XMS2 DDR2 800 Ram @ 4-4-4-12-2t, Zalman CNPS9500LED HSF, Sapphire Radeon X850XT PE GPU, Corsair 620HX P/S, Cooler Master Mystique Case, Viewsonic 20.1" Widescreen Digital LCD Monitor, Klipsch Promedia Ultra 5.1 THX Desktop Speakers, http://valid.x86-secret.com/show_oc.php?id=348351 http://valid.x86-secret.com/show_oc.php?id=236435
#20
i know but i didn't change the speed. Must have changed it without looking, yeah i try to do 4x reads normally



Main PC ~ Intel C2Q Q6600 (G0 Stepping)/Gigabyte GA-EP45-DS3/2GB Crucial Ballistix PC2-8500/Zalman CNPS9700/Antec 900/Corsair HX 620W
Network ~ DD-WRT ~ 2node WDS-WPA2/AES ~ Buffalo WHR-G54S. 3node WPA2/AES ~ WRT54GS v6 (inc. WEP BSSID), WRT54G v2, WRT54G2 v1. *** Forum Rules ***
#21
well, you guys have posted some way better lookin scans than I got. My G04's work OK with movies and I still have like 100 or so left, so I'll just use them for movies and get some TY for the games.

Thanks again everyone.

Convert PAL to NTSC or NTSC to PAL------>http://forums.afterdawn.com/thread_view.cfm/167922
ScubaPete's guides------>http://www.dvdplusvideo.com/tutorial007.html
Bbmayo's guides------>http://home.comcast.net/~bbmayo/index.html

My ever-growing movie collection------>http://www.intervocative.com/dvdcollection.aspx/squizzle
#22
edit- redid the scan at 4x. that big splodge at the beginning of disc is where i was multitasking during the burn(that'll teach me) and the Nero buffers dropped somewhat. I'm gonna CRC check the disc out of paranoia as haven't watched the disc yet but can always reburn if needed.



Main PC ~ Intel C2Q Q6600 (G0 Stepping)/Gigabyte GA-EP45-DS3/2GB Crucial Ballistix PC2-8500/Zalman CNPS9700/Antec 900/Corsair HX 620W
Network ~ DD-WRT ~ 2node WDS-WPA2/AES ~ Buffalo WHR-G54S. 3node WPA2/AES ~ WRT54GS v6 (inc. WEP BSSID), WRT54G v2, WRT54G2 v1. *** Forum Rules ***
#23
Ya buddy, thats ugly. I may have to dig out one of my burns on a verbatum and show you all what an excellent scan looks like :)

Rig #1 Asus Rampage Formula Mobo, Intel Core2Quad Q9450 CPU @ 3.55ghz, 2gb Corsair DDR2 1066 Dominator Ram @ 5-5-5-15, TR Ultra 120 Extreme w/ Scythe 9 blade 110 cfm 120mm Fan HSF, HIS Radeon 512mb HD3850 IceQ TurboX GPU, Corsair 620HX P/S, CM Stacker 830 Evo Case, Rig #2 Asus P5W DH Deluxe Mobo, Intel C2D E6600 CPU @ 3.6ghz, 2gb Corsair XMS2 DDR2 800 Ram @ 4-4-4-12-2t, Zalman CNPS9500LED HSF, Sapphire Radeon X850XT PE GPU, Corsair 620HX P/S, Cooler Master Mystique Case, Viewsonic 20.1" Widescreen Digital LCD Monitor, Klipsch Promedia Ultra 5.1 THX Desktop Speakers, http://valid.x86-secret.com/show_oc.php?id=348351 http://valid.x86-secret.com/show_oc.php?id=236435
#24
i'd watch it thru now but it's 21:40 and the movie is about 3hrs, so i am watching thunderbird 6 the movie instead (i'm a big kid)

as expected the CRC check has flown past the splodge



Main PC ~ Intel C2Q Q6600 (G0 Stepping)/Gigabyte GA-EP45-DS3/2GB Crucial Ballistix PC2-8500/Zalman CNPS9700/Antec 900/Corsair HX 620W
Network ~ DD-WRT ~ 2node WDS-WPA2/AES ~ Buffalo WHR-G54S. 3node WPA2/AES ~ WRT54GS v6 (inc. WEP BSSID), WRT54G v2, WRT54G2 v1. *** Forum Rules ***
#25
well, I decided to try again before giving up. So I disabled all processes at startup and rebooted, then burned at 1x using my external Pioneer DVR-106 and here's the results:



Looks a lot better than the other ones, but the problem is that it still won't play. So I'm pretty sure the burning process is ok, but the media is either fake or I just got a batch when they were making worse than normal discs.

Convert PAL to NTSC or NTSC to PAL------>http://forums.afterdawn.com/thread_view.cfm/167922
ScubaPete's guides------>http://www.dvdplusvideo.com/tutorial007.html
Bbmayo's guides------>http://home.comcast.net/~bbmayo/index.html

My ever-growing movie collection------>http://www.intervocative.com/dvdcollection.aspx/squizzle
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