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The Official Graphics Card and PC gaming Thread

This discussion thread has 8874 messages.

#8326
Surely you know by now I'm not still using the HD4870X2s?
As written above, I'm using two HD6970s and have been since January 2011...
2GB per GPU there will be a limitation as FC3 has been proven to need 2.5 for 2560x1600, but who knows, less AA will probably cure that.

SSDs behave like hard drives, just beware you should be using Windows 7 or newer with it, as while SSDs do work with Windows XP, they are not designed for it.



Afterdawn Addict // Silent PC enthusiast // PC Build advisor // LANGamer Alias:Ratmanscoop
PC Specs page -- http://my.afterdawn.com/sammorris/blog_entry.cfm/11247
updated 10-Dec-13
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#8327
Originally posted by Sam:
As written above, I'm using two HD6970s and have been since January 2011...

Ah, that's right. Sorry, I had forgotten. (How could I forget after everything you went through making those cards work in the first place - but all the excitement on my end - moving to the spedo case, etc etc - too much to keep track of, lol.)

Regarding AA - I am showing 3.1 gigs of vram usage, somewhere around that number, and I have AA down to 4x, rather than 8x, which dropped my fps by 10. I am getting mid 40s fps most of the time. I really don't see any jaggies - but you have a much better eye for that than I do.

Well, your crossfire 6970s may well work with 2 gigs each - but I think you'd have to cut a few quality corners, like the old days "before you got serious about 2560x1600 gaming" as you said. So if you get around to this Far Cry 3 title, you can try it for curiosity, but I recommend if you have to cut too many corners, just wait until you can max it - the eye candy on ultra is worth it I promise you, lol.

-----------

Regarding an SSD, yes to answer your question, I would be using Windows 7. So are you saying "YES" - that an SSD would likely cure any stuttering as I had described it (tearing down the road on the Far Cry 3 quad.)

By the way - great news tonight - I am past the knife fight QTE where I wasn't getting any prompts past the first 3 - so I was getting killed each time and could not progress in the game. Ubisoft had me call their support, and Tyler helped me out - he came up with 3 great ideas. I did the first two ideas at the same time - put a different keyboard on - and do something that caused the game to do a new auto-save, in case the fault lay in the old autosave - which in my case was just to buy ammo at the vending machine. I have a feeling it was the new autosave idea that worked. So it was some kind of rare bug - and I'm past that point, with my save games safely in place on two different computers.

Rich
#8328
Quote:
But if anybody were to be involved in high res graphics, it seems to me that it should be you, Jeff. Your knowledge, and your appreciation of the subtleties of graphic details, the finesse involved, in my opinion outshines everybody else.

You have no equal.
LOL thank you. Too kind. I try to be a discerning graphics snob, but fair :) I didn't even mention the multitude of graphics mods for Crysis that improve its consistency drastically. When using mods on Crysis it's not even fair to compare the two.

Quote:
I think its time, Jeff. Dont you?
Haha I really do agree Rich. I just don't have the money. That requires $1000+ for a good monitor(probably a 27" if I were going to do it) and another $600-800 for a set of proper video cards to do it. At 1920 x 1200 I can run any game on more reasonable hardware, such as these two much lower end cards. Also, this monitor was $650 brand new about 5 years ago, and is an absolutely excellent display. If this one died, I would be more inclined to replace it directly than to get a different resolution. It's in the sweet spot for size, resolution, image quality and performance all in one.

2560 x 1600 is a hardcore resolution to play games at. It just takes too much raw performance to manage. In that regard Rich, your system kicks the living sh** out of mine. I just spent $150 on a new PSU, $40 on a new cooler, $200 for a new CPU(which has arrived and will be installed shortly). My current video cards are barely adequate for many games right now. I'm banking on an XFX HD6970 Black Edition coming my way which will help tremendously with its liberating 2GB of VRAM. It will be a further $200 to get another one, and I currently don't want to spend the money. I will otherwise be sitting on these 6850s until a similar deal comes along. If anything, they still hold good value, being worth about $100 each used. I just don't have a buyer.
This message has been edited since its posting. Latest edit was made on 09 Jan 2013 @ 0:24



AMD Phenom II X6 1100T 4GHz(20 x 200) 1.5v 3000NB 2000HT, Corsair Hydro H110 w/ 4 x 140mm 1500RPM fans Push/Pull, Gigabyte GA-990FXA-UD5, 8GB(2 x 4GB) G.Skill RipJaws DDR3-1600 @ 1600MHz CL9 1.55v, Gigabyte GTX760 OC 4GB(1170/1700), Corsair 750HX
Detailed PC Specs: http://my.afterdawn.com/estuansis/blog_entry.cfm/11388
#8329
Warframe

Not a good game to own an AMD CPU for, or SLI for that matter.

1920x1080:
Average 60fps: AMD Phenom II X4 955BE/X6 1090T/any FX, Intel Core 2 E6850/E5400/E7200/Q6700/Q8200/any Core-i series,
DX9 Mode:Radeon HD4890/5830/6790/7750, Geforce GTX280/460/560/650Ti
DX11 Mode: Radeon HD5830/6790/7770, Geforce GTX460/560/650Ti

Minimum 60fps: Intel Core 2 Q9650/any i-series (including i3), no AMD CPUs capable
DX9 Mode: Radeon HD5830/6850/7770, Geforce GTX470/560/650Ti
DX11 Mode: Radeon HD5850/6870/7770, Geforce GTX470/560/650Ti

2560x1600
Average 60fps:
DX9 Mode (1.25GB VRAM required): Radeon HD5870/6970/7850, Geforce GTX670
DX11 Mode (1GB VRAM required): Radeon HD6990/7870, Geforce GTX680
(SLI Scaling: Negative, Crossfire scaling: 106%)

Minimum 60fps:
DX9 Mode: Radeon HD6990/7870, Geforce GTX680
DX11 Mode: Radeon HD6990/7870, No nvidia GPUs capable



Afterdawn Addict // Silent PC enthusiast // PC Build advisor // LANGamer Alias:Ratmanscoop
PC Specs page -- http://my.afterdawn.com/sammorris/blog_entry.cfm/11247
updated 10-Dec-13
#8330
FAR CRY 3

I think this game is as good a reason as any to plan an upgrade in the future...

Average 60fps:
AMD FX-6100/8150 @ 4.20Ghz, FX-8350 @ 4.10Ghz, Phenom II X6 @ 4.00Ghz
or Intel Core i5/i7 Quad Mk I/i5 2500K @ 4.00Ghz, Core i7 2600K @ 3.80Ghz, 3770K stock, 3930K @ 3.40Ghz

MODE 1: Very High, No AA/AO
1920x1080: Radeon HD6990/7970GE, Geforce GTX590/680
2560x1600: Geforce GTX690, No AMD cards capable (HD7970GE@40Hz, HD6990@45Hz)

MODE 2: Very High, 4xAA, SSAO
1920x1080: Geforce GTX690, No AMD cards capable (HD7970GE/6990 45Hz capable)
2560x1600: No current cards capable (HD7970GE/GTX680@25Hz, HD6990@30Hz, GTX690@45Hz)

MODE 3: Very High, 4xAA, HBAO
1920x1080: Geforce GTX690, No AMD cards capable (HD7970GE/6990/GTX590 45Hz capable)
2560x1600: No current cards capable (HD7970GE/GTX680@25Hz, HD6990@30Hz, GTX690@45Hz)

MODE 4: Very High, 4xAA, HDAO
1920x1080: Geforce GTX690, No AMD cards capable (HD7970GE/GTX680@40Hz, HD6990/GTX590@45Hz)
2560x1600: No current cards capable (HD7970GE/HD6990/GTX590/GTX680@25Hz, GTX690@45Hz)

MODE 5: Very High, 8xAA, HDAO
1920x1080: No current cards capable (HD7970GE/GTX680/GTX590/HD6990@30Hz, GTX690@50Hz)
2560x1600: No cards capable until est. 2015 (HD7970/HD6990/GTX590/GTX690@15Hz, GTX690@30Hz)



Minimum 40fps (M60 not yet considered realistic):
AMD FX-8150 @ 3.80Ghz, FX-6100 @ 4.00Ghz, FX-4170 @ 4.50Ghz, FX-8350 Stock, Phenom II X6 @ 3.95Ghz
or Intel Core i5 760/2500K @ 3.50Ghz, i7 920 @ 3.40Ghz, i5 3570K/i7 2600K/3770K/3930K Stock

MODE 1: Very High, No AA/AO
1920x1080: Radeon HD7970, Geforce GTX590/680
2560x1600: Geforce GTX690, No AMD cards capable (HD7970GE/GTX590 35Hz capable)

MODE 2: Very High, 4xAA, SSAO
1920x1080: Geforce GTX590/690, No AMD cards capable (HD7970GE@35Hz, HD7970/6990/GTX670@30Hz)
2560x1600: Geforce GTX690, No AMD cards capable (HD6990/GTX590@25Hz, HD7970/GTX680@20Hz)

MODE 3: Very High, 4xAA, HBAO
1920x1080: Geforce GTX690, No AMD cards capable (HD7970GE/GTX590@35Hz, HD7970/6990/GTX670@30Hz)
2560x1600: Geforce GTX690, No AMD cards capable (HD6990@25Hz, HD7970/GTX590/670@20Hz)

MODE 4: Very High, 4xAA, HDAO
1920x1080: Geforce GTX690, No AMD cards capable (HD7970GE/GTX590@35Hz, HD7970/GTX680@30Hz)
2560x1600: No current cards capable (GTX690@35Hz, HD7970GE/6990/GTX590/680@20Hz)

MODE 5: Very High, 8xAA, HDAO
1920x1080: No current cards capable (GTX690@35Hz, HD6990/GTX590@25Hz, HD7970/GTX670@20Hz)
2560x1600: No current cards capable (GTX690@25Hz, HD7970GE/GTX590/680@15Hz, HD7970/GTX670@13Hz)


Yup, to pull off a minimum of 60fps at 2560x1600 all maxed out, you're going to need the power of five full-fat GTX680 GPUs, at 100% scaling. Hmm... Oh, and a 5Ghz i7 of some sort.
This message has been edited since its posting. Latest edit was made on 10 Jan 2013 @ 18:38



Afterdawn Addict // Silent PC enthusiast // PC Build advisor // LANGamer Alias:Ratmanscoop
PC Specs page -- http://my.afterdawn.com/sammorris/blog_entry.cfm/11247
updated 10-Dec-13
#8331
I've known my GTX 570 is becoming dated. But now it's OFFICIALLY outdated LOL! Eh, it'll do for now. I'm not really an enthusiast when it comes to gaming. If I love a game, and it drops below 30Fps too often though, it's worth an upgrade. THAT'S when it's beginning to show its age ;)



To delete, or not to delete. THAT is the question!
#8332
Battlefield 3 Aftermath

Average 60fps:
AMD Phenom II X4 9xx @ 3.95Ghz, X6 10xx @ 3.65Ghz, FX-4150 @ 3.70Ghz, any FX-6/8
Intel Core i3 530 @ 3.60Ghz, Any Mk II Core i3, Any Core i5/i7, Core 2 Quad Q6850/9450
High Graphics
1920x1080 (1.25GB VRAM required): Radeon HD6990/7850, Geforce GTX590/660
2560x1600 (1.5GB VRAM required): Radeon HD6990/7970, Geforce GTX690
Very High Graphics
1920x1080 (1.5GB (nvidia), 2GB (AMD) VRAM required): Radeon HD7970, Geforce GTX590/680
2560x1600 (2GB (nvidia), 2.5GB (AMD) VRAM required): Geforce GTX690, No AMD card capable (HD7970GE@45Hz, HD6990/7970@35Hz)


Minimum 60fps;
AMD FX-4170 @ 4.50Ghz, FX-6100 @ 3.50Ghz, FX-8150/8350 stock
Intel Core i3 2100 @ 3.65Ghz, Any Core i5/i7, Core 2 Quad QX9770
High Graphics
1920x1080: Radeon HD6990/7870, Geforce GTX590/660Ti
2560x1600: Radeon HD7970GE, Geforce GTX690
Very High Graphics
1920x1080: Geforce GTX690, No AMD card capable (HD7970GE@55Hz, HD6990/7970/GTX590@50Hz)
2560x1600: Geforce GTX690, No AMD card capable (HD7970GE@35Hz, HD6990/7970/GTX590/680@30Hz)



Afterdawn Addict // Silent PC enthusiast // PC Build advisor // LANGamer Alias:Ratmanscoop
PC Specs page -- http://my.afterdawn.com/sammorris/blog_entry.cfm/11247
updated 10-Dec-13
#8333
Originally posted by Sam regarding Far Cry 3:
MODE 3: Very High, 4xAA, HBAO
1920x1080: Geforce GTX690, No AMD cards capable (HD7970GE/6990/GTX590 45Hz capable)
2560x1600: No current cards capable (HD7970GE/GTX680@25Hz, HD6990@30Hz, GTX690@45Hz)

Sam, I don't see crossfire in the table - is that correct? So you're showing 25 fps from one 7970 in the above, right?

I think you're correct. I get mine dropping from 40 down to 32, and even 25 on occasion, WITH CROSSFIRE. I'm up in the airport after end of game, fighting the privateers with bow and arrow which is wonderful kick. The special long-range sight helps you learn how high to raise the bow depending on how far away they are, and with all the privateers dead I have practiced setting a distance marker, then with that being able to tell how far apart things are.





Like I climb on top of the old propeller plane, and shoot this stack of boxes about 80 meters away, just 10 meters past where the privateers are usually roasting a pig (on the opposite side from where the screenshot below here was taken.) After enough practice you can often do it without sighting in as you draw back the bow (by holding down the fire button) which enables you to get faster kills - a good skill to have when 5 of them suddenly figure out where you are shooting from.





It's such a kick to sight in on a guy who must be about 80 meters away, not even seeing you, raise the bow about 1 1/2 body lengths above his head, release it, then watch him tumble about two seconds later as it connects. They give you a little vapor trail to try to help you follow your arrow - it's a little hard to see but sometimes from that you can catch when you are shooting short.

(Then when they're all dead I go over and pull out the arrows, and have my whole 30-arrow quiver full again. Haha. You just pass over the body and you can hear the little click as you pick up an arrow.)

I jazzed my clock up from 975 stable, up to 1050, and it's been so cold here, it was running fine for a couple hours. Then finally I started paying attention to the OSD.

I was shocked to see that my graphics cards were only running around 65% - 70% load, each of them, especially while up in the airport, but my frame rates were in low 30s, with a dip to 25, and definitely not totally fluid - choppy I would say.

There are so many beautiful airplanes and helicopters, dust in the air from time to time, pigs being roasted over a blazing fire on each end - something is maxing one of my cpu cores.

Look at these gorgeous birds they place there from time to time - there are 3 of them and they come and leave in a group unless you shoot one, lol. When they preen and spread their feathers, it's amazingly colorful. In this shot I am zoomed way in through the "camera/binoculars" device.






Anyway, throughout the game prior, I had from time to time charted my cpu usage using perfmon, and overall it's been 75%, so I thought I had the cpu horsepower, and generally my gpus have been running a consistent 98% or 99% load, and I have been getting around 45fps, at the 975 totally stable clock. But as of yesterday I found out that the perfmon average cpu load doesn't tell the full story - if one core is maxed out, I'm screwed. I had no idea this was happening, and it didn't happen before. Something about the airport and all the detail and models - maybe you guys will have a better idea why.

So I started paying attention yesterday, and my Afterburner OSD gives me cpu usage per core, and all the cores were running 75-80% except the 3rd core which was running 98-100% as I ran back and forth looking at the OSD.

So if one 9450 core is maxed out, while my graphics cards are cruising at 65-70% then that's a cpu bottleneck. I was shocked, and so I dropped back to the more conservative rock solid stable 975 core clock, and then the gpu usage was up closer to 75% on each card.

So now, finally, with the long-awaited cpu bottleneck staring me straight in the face, I have a few options:

OPTION 1. I could get a professional cooling tower right now - something better than the cooler that came with the 9450 (it's not the Intel reference, but it's not a TRUE) and try to OC it up from the 3.343 to the 3.6 target that you guys said I should be able to hit, which would be about 8% faster. That headroom might put me closer to 35-40 fps minimum.

OPTION 2. Or I could just rest the game for a while, until I can get hold of the over-heating 3 year old i7 1366 nehalem gigaybyte with 3 16x card slots motherboard, and put a nice cooling tower on that, and push it close to 4 ghz, which should give me a 40% faster cpu. Am I right?

By the way, Sam or Jeff, could you guys explain to me the difference between SSAO, HBAO, and HDAO? Tonight I'll try to make sure I am running the less-intensive SSAO and see if that helps me somewhat.


Originally posted by Jeff:
My current video cards are barely adequate for many games right now. I'm banking on an XFX HD6970 Black Edition coming my way which will help tremendously with its liberating 2GB of VRAM. It will be a further $200 to get another one, and I currently don't want to spend the money. I will otherwise be sitting on these 6850s until a similar deal comes along. If anything, they still hold good value, being worth about $100 each used. I just don't have a buyer.


Jeff, you're not going to believe it, but in this conversation we're having, I'm now wondering if I should sell you my HIS IceQ cards for maybe $150 each. That link is to the original newegg page with the review video.






Uh-oh, I think your argument about "It just takes too much raw performance to manage" is coming true again. I looked up "GE" to see what Sam was talking about, and I came across the 6 gig sapphire gigahertz edition at $580, 1000 core clock, and the 3 gig MSI Lightning 7970 mil spec card which I had spent a lot of time looking at a few months ago, reading all the reviews, etc, at $490 that ships with 1070 core clock, with a daughter-card control module that helps eliminate voltage fluctuations - ripple - keeping things under control if you want to push it even further.

The reviews are pretty strong, and the Lightning brand goes back a few years with consistent rave reviews. Both cards are nearly 3 wide, but the 1366 motherboard I should be getting will run two of them at 4x spacing between cards. Plus all the effort I put into ensuring airflow in this spedo (6 input fans with pricey Demciflex filtering, two side, 1 bottom, 3 front - 5 of them 140s, 70 cfm phanteks etc. - no dust - balancing out the 4 exhaust fans, two 140s, 1 120 behind the mobo, and ceiling 200) makes me no longer afraid of graphic cards that don't have the turbine design of the HIS IceQ which was intended to work better for me, eliminating heat out the back of my toasty mid-tower Antec Sonata to which I had modded two boisterous 3000 rpm kaze input fans.

Or I could wait for the 8000 family.

I am thinking that if I want to, I could get this i7 and 1366 motherboard (I think 8 gigs Ram - maybe 16) pretty soon - I have to run up to LA in a couple months or so and fix Miles' photo and iTunes server that I Raided like crazy two years ago - three sets of mirrors, including two ENTERPRISE 1TB WD drives in a Cavalry esata Raid external enclosure. (The registry apparently recently became corrupted so on bootup it says it is missing System - one of the hives. I explained to him that Raid protects against disk failure - which brought down his system in the first place - not software failure. Hopefully I put Erunt on that rig, cross my fingers, and did at least one registry backup before I delivered it to him. Otherwise I might have to start from scratch again.)

And thanks to you and Sam I am getting even more addicted to eye-candy - it has all been intoxicating being able to finally jump into Crysis and all the wonderful titles that sat on a shelf for 3 years, plus moving to the spedo case, all since summer, finally really showing off this spectacular 30" Dell which is rigidly planted on my gaming table - nothing will get me to part with it, haha.

So with the lack of fluidity on Far Cry 3, and Crysis 3 coming along pretty soon, I am willing to consider taking an additional $1000 graphics plunge if I can get a few bucks back on the cards and help a friend. If you're def not going to move away from your original $650 "absolutely excellent display" then these might rock it for you for quite a while. LOL

Rich
#8334
Originally posted by Rich:
Sam, I don't see crossfire in the table - is that correct? So you're showing 25 fps from one 7970 in the above, right?

That's correct, I have only included single card configurations as those are the raw bench results as tested. It should be worth noting that at the time of their testing (and as far as I know, still now) Far Cry 3 is not supported properly in Crossfire.



Afterdawn Addict // Silent PC enthusiast // PC Build advisor // LANGamer Alias:Ratmanscoop
PC Specs page -- http://my.afterdawn.com/sammorris/blog_entry.cfm/11247
updated 10-Dec-13
#8335
At the time of me writing this, FarCry 3 fully supports Crossfire on the 12.11 beta drivers and latest Crossfire profile. Second card 80-90% load.



AMD Phenom II X6 1100T 4GHz(20 x 200) 1.5v 3000NB 2000HT, Corsair Hydro H110 w/ 4 x 140mm 1500RPM fans Push/Pull, Gigabyte GA-990FXA-UD5, 8GB(2 x 4GB) G.Skill RipJaws DDR3-1600 @ 1600MHz CL9 1.55v, Gigabyte GTX760 OC 4GB(1170/1700), Corsair 750HX
Detailed PC Specs: http://my.afterdawn.com/estuansis/blog_entry.cfm/11388
#8336
As far as the CPU goes, if you overclock to the same speeds you'll see 20% or so more with the i7, so it'll help but not a huge amount. Conversely a modern i7 3770K will provide you with an almost 50% performance boost before you overclock it. I can't really say it'll run substantially cooler than the old i7 (it will stock, though!) because the Ivy Bridge heatspreaders are very weak. Still though, with a decent cooler, a 15% overclock to 4Ghz would be childs play, pushing you up to a 70% increase versus the Q9450. If you're having to make investments, making them in old tech isn't always the wisest choice.



Afterdawn Addict // Silent PC enthusiast // PC Build advisor // LANGamer Alias:Ratmanscoop
PC Specs page -- http://my.afterdawn.com/sammorris/blog_entry.cfm/11247
updated 10-Dec-13
#8337
Taking it back to my simming roots again and playing X3: Terran Conflict and X3: Albion Prelude.

It essentially drops you in a small ship in the middle of a HUGE universe and lets you go free. Follow one of several story lines or simply start a trading empire and start buying large warships or whatever you want to do. Completely open ended and never forces you to do anything but fight or die. This is basically the single player equivalent of Eve Online.

The older games in the X Series use very outdated tech, lack widescreen support, and have a very steep learning curve(more like a learning wall). So I haven't bothered to play since X2: The Threat back on my old 4:3 monitor and X850XT. Even the first X3 game, X3: Reunion, had these same issues.

What I'm playing is the X3 Gold Pack. It includes the much better expansion for X3, Terran Conflict, and the expansion's direct sequel Albion Prelude. Albion Prelude is a complete re-working of the game engine to bring it up to modern technical and graphical snuff. Terran Conflict was originally released separately, but had a close enough version of the engine that they were able to apply all of the fixes from Albion Prelude and include both as a single, updated version of the game. The end result is a VERY pretty and impressive free-roaming universe worth hundreds of hours of gameplay.

Sadly, the original X3: Reunion is not using a new enough version of the engine to apply the upgrades. I do regret not being able to enjoy it in full glory. Fortunately, it's a standalone game, and the other two don't depend on it for story content. X2: The Threat probably had the best story.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/X_%28computer_game_series%29

-------------------------------------------

The only thing I've chosen to change is that X3 does not have visible cockpits, unlike X1 and X2. There has been a wonderful mod released that takes the cockpit models from X2, and updates them with all the X3 gizmos and glitter.

http://forum.egosoft.com/viewtopic.php?...der=asc&start=0

------------------------------------------

What I find most intriguing about these games is the control scheme. You can choose to use a flightstick if you wish, but it only gets in the way of the fantastically complex-yet-simple-interface. Almost everything is mouse-based as you have a large interface full of external cameras, comms windows, navigation information, etc. Everything works a lot more smoothly if you use the keyboard and mouse for navigation. The game goes out of its way to make sure KB and Mouse do not compromise any control or finesse, so it's not a downside at all. All you have to worry about maneuvering-wise are throttle and roll on the keyboard, and pitch/yaw on the mouse. This simple control scheme keeps the action solely focused on the smaller details, such as targeting, weapons payloads, cargo holds, damaged components, etc.

Small example of the complexity at hand:

Say you want to dock with an orbital station. We'll assume it's on the other side of a system or sector so you can't just roll right up to it. First you need to bring up your sector map and locate it. You can either look on a list of ships and structures present in the system, or you can look directly on the map and click the object you want to navigate to. Either way will put the orbital station in your targeting register. That means it is now highlighted on your HUD and visible in your targeting computer readout. You now have a general idea which direction to fly in to reach it.

Now, assuming the station is out of line of sight, you can click it on your targeting computer and pull up the interaction sub-menu. If its within line of sight, you have the option of clicking it directly and getting the same menu. This opens lots of options but we'll stick with the task at hand, docking. So you click on the comms option and choose who you want to speak with. In this case, it's the station control tower. This will open a comms window with several dialog options. From these options you must select "Request Docking Permission". Assuming nothing is currently preventing them from accepting new arrivals(such as a battle or military blockade), you will now be granted permission to dock. Now, with the orbital station still highlighted, you can either maneuver into dock manually or engage your autopilot which will dock automatically, though it does take some time to work out the best route. I usually pilot it into the landing lane, then let autopilot take over and pull me in nice and easy.

--------------------------------

Now, this seems complicated at first, even overwhelming. I mean, I did all that just to dock at a station. What about combat? What about exploration or mining? Well it all follows the same basic interface.

The interface is essentially a mini OS made just for the game. It's complex, but not complicated or confusing. It's like learning a new version of Windows or Linux but nowhere near as deep.

Think of it this way; doing different stuff is like using or installing different programs on your PC. Sure, the programs themselves are very different, but you still use the same basic Windows UI to do it. This game follows that mentality.

The end result of these complex-yet-simple controls is the sensation of actually flying, interacting, and living in outer space. The game itself might seem sterile at first glance, but every single mechanic in the game is designed to mimic the restraints of real-world technology. Radio not powerful enough? Limited signal range. Busted jump drive? Either stay stranded until someone finds you, or start making your way to the nearest friendly system under sublight power before you starve or other systems start failing. Every little detail is designed to immerse you in the world, and make you think about your actions.

-----------------------------------

As an old school space and flight sim gamer, I highly appreciate the complexity of the X Series. It's deep enough for any micromanagement junkie to absorb his life into. Yet it's accessible enough for a noob with a few hours of getting used to the interface to start getting stuff done.

It never throws too much at you at once. All you need to start is a basic feel for the flight controls and a few minutes poking around the interface to figure out what everything does. It's all very intuitive.
This message has been edited since its posting. Latest edit was made on 12 Jan 2013 @ 12:11



AMD Phenom II X6 1100T 4GHz(20 x 200) 1.5v 3000NB 2000HT, Corsair Hydro H110 w/ 4 x 140mm 1500RPM fans Push/Pull, Gigabyte GA-990FXA-UD5, 8GB(2 x 4GB) G.Skill RipJaws DDR3-1600 @ 1600MHz CL9 1.55v, Gigabyte GTX760 OC 4GB(1170/1700), Corsair 750HX
Detailed PC Specs: http://my.afterdawn.com/estuansis/blog_entry.cfm/11388
#8338
I may be officially done with Far cry 3. At least til it comes down in price. I'm just not that impressed with how things are playing out. First person shooter? After over an hour of tutorials, video clips, and walking through the jungle, the only shooting I've done was kill two Boars, for their skins. I'm afraid GTA IV is still my game of choice LOL!

Glad I could test it out, before paying $50 for a game I may never play again.
This message has been edited since its posting. Latest edit was made on 12 Jan 2013 @ 22:43



To delete, or not to delete. THAT is the question!
#8339
Thoroughly enjoying X3: Albion Prelude. Just bought a small freighter and converted it into a mining ship with some spare parts. A bit slow, but lots of cargo room and good shields for working close to rocks and stuff. I can have it follow me in, blow up a bunch of rocks with my fighter, then let it do its stuff, collecting and processing the ore.

I can use the ore for construction materials or sell it. As of currently, I'm just trying to maintain a steady income and not get my ships damaged. It takes about 15 minutes real time floating around outside a ship with repair tools to fix one. It's either that or pay expensive fees. I prefer to fix most of my own stuff barring larger craft. It makes it worth it to keep your stuff in good shape.



AMD Phenom II X6 1100T 4GHz(20 x 200) 1.5v 3000NB 2000HT, Corsair Hydro H110 w/ 4 x 140mm 1500RPM fans Push/Pull, Gigabyte GA-990FXA-UD5, 8GB(2 x 4GB) G.Skill RipJaws DDR3-1600 @ 1600MHz CL9 1.55v, Gigabyte GTX760 OC 4GB(1170/1700), Corsair 750HX
Detailed PC Specs: http://my.afterdawn.com/estuansis/blog_entry.cfm/11388
#8340
Shootmania Storm:
Crossfire support: No
SLI support: No

Average 60fps:
Intel Core 2 Quad QX9770, any Core i-series
AMD Phenom II X4 965BE stock, X6 1100T @ 3.55Ghz, FX-4100/6100/8150
1920x1080 (1.5GB VRAM AMD, 2GB VRAM nvidia required): Radeon HD7970, Geforce GTX580/660Ti
2560x1600 (2GB VRAM required): No current cards capable (HD7970GE/GTX680 @ 45Hz)

Minimum 60fps:
Intel Core i7 975/2600K stock/i5 7xx @ 3.40Ghz/2500K Stock, i3 5xx @ 3.60Ghz
AMD FX-8350 @ 4.20Ghz
1920x1080: No current cards capable (HD7970GE/GTX680 @ 55Hz)
2560x1600: No current cards capable (HD7970GE@40Hz, HD7970/GTX680@35Hz)
This message has been edited since its posting. Latest edit was made on 13 Jan 2013 @ 8:22



Afterdawn Addict // Silent PC enthusiast // PC Build advisor // LANGamer Alias:Ratmanscoop
PC Specs page -- http://my.afterdawn.com/sammorris/blog_entry.cfm/11247
updated 10-Dec-13
#8341
Starcraft II: Heart of the Swarm Beta
Crossfire scaling: 84%
SLI scaling: 66% (May be higher - CPU limit near)

Average 60fps:
AMD Athlon64 X2 4200+, Intel Core 2 Duo E6400/E4600
1920x1080 (640MB VRAM required): Radeon HD5830/6850/7850, Geforce GTX460/550Ti/650
2560x1600 (768MB AMD, 896MB nvidia VRAM required): Radeon HD5870/6950/7850, Geforce GTX470/560Ti/650Ti

Minimum 60fps:
AMD Athlon64 X2 5600+, any Athlon/Phenom II, Intel Core E6600/E5200
1920x1080: Radeon HD5850/6870/7850, Geforce GTX460/560/650Ti
2560x1600: Radeon HD6970/7870, Geforce GTX480/570/660



Afterdawn Addict // Silent PC enthusiast // PC Build advisor // LANGamer Alias:Ratmanscoop
PC Specs page -- http://my.afterdawn.com/sammorris/blog_entry.cfm/11247
updated 10-Dec-13
#8342
I would expect as much from Heart of the Swarm. Very well established engine now. Very well proven. I greatly enjoyed Wings of Liberty as well, being an original StarCraft 1 fan back in the day. Was one of my first ever PC games.

Shootmania looks somewhat stupid though if you ask me. Just another UT/CoD twitch shooter clone with no defining features or advanced graphics to set it apart in an already heavily saturated market. This current glut of twitch shooters is worse than the WW2 game craze. At least WW2 gives gamers some common historical ground.
This message has been edited since its posting. Latest edit was made on 13 Jan 2013 @ 12:55



AMD Phenom II X6 1100T 4GHz(20 x 200) 1.5v 3000NB 2000HT, Corsair Hydro H110 w/ 4 x 140mm 1500RPM fans Push/Pull, Gigabyte GA-990FXA-UD5, 8GB(2 x 4GB) G.Skill RipJaws DDR3-1600 @ 1600MHz CL9 1.55v, Gigabyte GTX760 OC 4GB(1170/1700), Corsair 750HX
Detailed PC Specs: http://my.afterdawn.com/estuansis/blog_entry.cfm/11388
#8343
Bit of a CPU-punisher this one, while the graphics are almost there (but for the lack of dual-GPU support which would sort the situation out entirely), CPU performance is woeful - note also the slight decrease in performance from moving from 4 to 6 cores here. Only if you manage to pull off an Ivy Bridge overclock in excess of 5Ghz will you be able to get the CPU limit to the game's 62fps engine cap!

MechWarrior Online:
Crossfire support: No
SLI support: No

Average 60fps:
Intel core i5 2500K @ 4.00Ghz, i7 2600K @ 3.80Ghz, 3770K @ 3.75Ghz, 3930K @ 4.00Ghz
1920x1080 (1.25GB VRAM required): Radeon HD7870/GTX660
2560x1600 (1.5GB Nvidia, 2GB AMD VRAM required): No current cards capable (HD7970GE/GTX680 50Hz)

Contiguous 62fps (engine cap):
No current CPUs capable
(40Hz Capable: i5 2500K/i7 2600K/3770K, i7 3930K @ 3.30Ghz)
(30Hz Capable: Core i5 750/i7 930, Core 2 Quad QX9770, AMD FX-4170/6100/8150, Phenom II X4 @ 3.85Ghz, X6 @ 4.20Ghz)
1920x1080: Radeon HD7970/GTX660Ti
2560x1600: No current cards capable (HD7970GE@45Hz, HD7970/GTX680@40Hz)



Afterdawn Addict // Silent PC enthusiast // PC Build advisor // LANGamer Alias:Ratmanscoop
PC Specs page -- http://my.afterdawn.com/sammorris/blog_entry.cfm/11247
updated 10-Dec-13
#8344
Originally posted by Sam:
That's correct, I have only included single card configurations as those are the raw bench results as tested. It should be worth noting that at the time of their testing (and as far as I know, still now) Far Cry 3 is not supported properly in Crossfire.
I see that Jeff says crossfire works, and I have to agree from a recent experience a few days ago when I inexplicably dropped out of crossfire - my frame rate got cut roughly in half - I looked up at the OSD and the 2nd card had suddenly dropped to 300mhz.

Speaking of tweaking things, I tried 8x AA. My reasoning was that my gpus were only idling at about 75% load, being cpu bottlenecked. Sure enough 8x brought them up to 90% load, and my frame rates remained about the same, and I was less cpu bottlenecked actually, but the whole game got extremely laggy.

So I soon abandoned that experiment - but in terms of image quality - I tried to notice the effect on graphics and the visual presentation. Yes, maybe, I saw an extremely minor increase in smoothness of models - possibly a hair more polished - very hard to perceive any difference. I am already running HDAO, and ultra, so 4x AA still delivers an incredible image. I am not insensitive to jaggies - I put Far Cry 2 away for 3 years because I couldn't get above 2xAA - then ran it at max a few months ago - and I ran all the crysis titles at max - 8x AA - but this one is fine at 4x.


Originally posted by Sam:
As far as the CPU goes, if you overclock to the same speeds you'll see 20% or so more with the i7, so it'll help but not a huge amount. Conversely a modern i7 3770K will provide you with an almost 50% performance boost before you overclock it. I can't really say it'll run substantially cooler than the old i7 (it will stock, though!) because the Ivy Bridge heatspreaders are very weak. Still though, with a decent cooler, a 15% overclock to 4Ghz would be childs play, pushing you up to a 70% increase versus the Q9450. If you're having to make investments, making them in old tech isn't always the wisest choice.


Wow, that's a brilliant help. But - the i7 nehalem, at least with the later D20 and D30, was a good overclocker, right, like at least 4.0 ghz with something like a Noctua or TRUE? Well, I would take the 20% at this point, but 4.0 ghz would give me 43%. If I luck out, the only investment would be the cooler, and from what I understand, they fit all the modern sizes from 1366 to 1125 since physical chip size is about the same, right?


Originally posted by Jeff:
The end result of these complex-yet-simple controls is the sensation of actually flying, interacting, and living in outer space. The game itself might seem sterile at first glance, but every single mechanic in the game is designed to mimic the restraints of real-world technology. Radio not powerful enough? Limited signal range. Busted jump drive? Either stay stranded until someone finds you, or start making your way to the nearest friendly system under sublight power before you starve or other systems start failing. Every little detail is designed to immerse you in the world, and make you think about your actions.
Wow! I have a friend who plays world war ii board games - online. The games take hours. You buy troops, etc - the the computer flips a dice. He is very into that.



Meanwhile I'm running the wave runner around throwing up major spray and seeing how deep I can dig on the turns. I have several hundred incredible screenshots of everything, including man-eating crocodiles caught in the shocking act!





You and my friend have the patience of Job. But I do see what you mean about reality and being immersed in the event. In some ways Operation Flashpoint was like operating on sunpower to get to a friendly settlement before you freeze in outer space. There was a lot of suspense in OF as you ran around the moonlit hills in enemy territory - it was better to avoid the chinese patrols if possible rather than to engage.

Somehow, I was able to marshall the patience for Operation Flashpoint, but I could not get into Stalker, and I doubt I could gather as much as that space game requires - but yet - I do see how it could be quite intriguing. Very nice explanation.


Originally posted by Kevin:
I may be officially done with Far cry 3. At least til it comes down in price. I'm just not that impressed with how things are playing out. First person shooter? After over an hour of tutorials, video clips, and walking through the jungle, the only shooting I've done was kill two Boars, for their skins. I'm afraid GTA IV is still my game of choice LOL!

Glad I could test it out, before paying $50 for a game I may never play again.
That proves it - New York City - you're a city slicker!! How does that ad for that Texas chilli go, trying to knock the competition - made where? - "In New York City???!!!!!" Hahaha.

Why did you bother with tutorials? You remind me of me. After staying up all night trying to beat the f**king Arma2 helicopter training on novice skill level no less (but before my gaming mouse - maybe that was the problem) I said "screw that" and just started the game, and then I immediately hated the image of the giant rifle butt I was carrying.

So did you kill the boars? LOL


Quote:
Thoroughly enjoying X3: Albion Prelude. Just bought a small freighter and converted it into a mining ship with some spare parts. A bit slow, but lots of cargo room and good shields for working close to rocks and stuff. I can have it follow me in, blow up a bunch of rocks with my fighter, then let it do its stuff, collecting and processing the ore.

I can use the ore for construction materials or sell it. As of currently, I'm just trying to maintain a steady income and not get my ships damaged. It takes about 15 minutes real time floating around outside a ship with repair tools to fix one. It's either that or pay expensive fees. I prefer to fix most of my own stuff barring larger craft. It makes it worth it to keep your stuff in good shape.
Holy cr*p. Are you talking about a game, or is this something you do to in real life? That is amazing. Do you want to post some screens sometime?

Rich
#8345
Yes I killed the boars. From what I could tell, I had to do the tutorials. And when he tried to teach me a new technique, I got stuck in the menu. There was no way to exit out of the mode. I'm guessing that the crack somehow crippled it. It's all fine and good. I got out of the game what I needed to see. I won't be buying it :p Perhaps when it comes down to $20, I'll give it another shot for real.



To delete, or not to delete. THAT is the question!
#8346
Rich. The differences between HDAO, HBAO and SSAO are small but important. The part you want to focus on is "AO" or Ambient Occlusion. What that means is that it emulates the lightness or darkness of shadows according to how close they are to the casting object. This simulates light bleed and diffusion. Basically, it gives shadows more depth and realism.

SSAO means Screen Space Ambient Occlusion. It is by far the oldest version of AO but also the lightest on resources. As a consequence though, it generally doesn't look as good as the other two.

HBAO means Horizon-Based Ambient Occlusion. It calculates its AO not only by object/shadow distance, but also by the direction of the sun or whatever light source is casting the shadow. It offers slightly deeper and more realistic effects than SSAO but that the cost of performance.

HDAO means High Definition Ambient Occlusion. This is basically regular SSAO rendered with more depth and detail, but not based on the direction of the sun. Supposedly this gives SSAO a performance edge over HBAO. It does look better than normal SSAO.

HBAO Best
HDAO middle
SSAO Worst

In my opinion HBAO is the best looking one, but HDAO is still better looking than SSAO. IF HBAO and HDAO are too intensive though, having SSAO is MUCH better than no AO at all. Unless you're very detail oriented, it's hard to spot a precise difference between the three, but the overall effect will be noticeable.


Quote:
Wow! I have a friend who plays world war ii board games - online. The games take hours. You buy troops, etc - the the computer flips a dice. He is very into that.

You and my friend have the patience of Job. But I do see what you mean about reality and being immersed in the event. In some ways Operation Flashpoint was like operating on sunpower to get to a friendly settlement before you freeze in outer space. There was a lot of suspense in OF as you ran around the moonlit hills in enemy territory - it was better to avoid the chinese patrols if possible rather than to engage.

Somehow, I was able to marshall the patience for Operation Flashpoint, but I could not get into Stalker, and I doubt I could gather as much as that space game requires - but yet - I do see how it could be quite intriguing. Very nice explanation.

I can be easily overwhelmed by complicated games. X3 took me about 5 or 6 tries over the course of a couple weeks before I finally got the hang of navigation, communications and combat well enough to start doing things, and that's after over 100 hours of X2: The Threat(though admittedly many years ago now). Everything is very detail oriented, and really makes you feel like you're living the daily rigors of a space jock. I love pulling a light tanker loaded down with freshly mined ore into a crowded space dock. Traffic control warnings, landing procedure, pirate attacks preventing docking, everything is so dense and interactive.

If a ship gets damaged, I have to actually find a safe place, get out of the ship, and spend 10 minutes to a half hour repairing it. Which is a crazy long time for sitting there holding down a button, but highly worth it vs the insane repair fees. It really makes you feel like a freelance laborer just trying to make ends meet. This really hit home for me as my family have fixed their own vehicles since before I was born. Really makes you appreciate losing a little time to save a lot of money, especially when you fix a ship you bought with your own hard work. Just that mechanic alone makes you feel like you've gained something of worth within the game.

Hopping into your first large multiple crew ship is a fantastic feeling. It's a HUGE investment of time and money within the game, and not something you do lightly. You can spend days planning the buy so you know where to get the best ships, who has them the cheapest, who has the best weapons and shields, etc. Nothing like putting a light freighter on auto-pilot to a distant star system, hopping into the rear gun turret, and having long radio conversation with the fighter pilot you hired to fly escort. Only stopping the gab fest to knock down a few pirates with the balls to make a pass. And yes, I named my light freighter the Millennium Falcon :)

Quote:
Holy cr*p. Are you talking about a game, or is this something you do to in real life? That is amazing. Do you want to post some screens sometime?
At your command, lol. Will post some screens soon. Afraid I don't have a lot of cool ships yet, but I'll have a few to show off shortly :P

Eagerly awaiting completion of a HUGE Star Wars total conversion for the game. They've been working on it since the first installment of X3(quite a while) so it's very near to completion :D

Just to give you an idea at the scale of this game:

http://www.roguey.webspace.virginmedia.com/maps/x3tc-map.png

Every single little square is a wide open expanse of space that takes ~15 minutes to cross in real time. Every black bar between the squares is a jump gate.
This message has been edited since its posting. Latest edit was made on 14 Jan 2013 @ 0:35



AMD Phenom II X6 1100T 4GHz(20 x 200) 1.5v 3000NB 2000HT, Corsair Hydro H110 w/ 4 x 140mm 1500RPM fans Push/Pull, Gigabyte GA-990FXA-UD5, 8GB(2 x 4GB) G.Skill RipJaws DDR3-1600 @ 1600MHz CL9 1.55v, Gigabyte GTX760 OC 4GB(1170/1700), Corsair 750HX
Detailed PC Specs: http://my.afterdawn.com/estuansis/blog_entry.cfm/11388
#8347
Making a double post just for you Rich :P

Click these to see them in 1600 x 900. Was playing on my TV when I shot these. Nothing like a 40" screen to put you in the cockpit :P Too bad imageshack won't take them until I reduce the size and tinypic does this to them. Not ideal.

First shot is me using the repair laser to fix my damaged "Elite" Fighter I named Swordfish. To give you a sense of scale, that Jumpgate(large glowing ring) in the background is about 2 or 3km away.



Close-up of the side of my fuselage. The detail is excellent considering this is such a small ship. There are capital ships over a kilometer long with this same amount of detail on every foot of their surface. And you view most things from an extreme distance, so this is particularly close.



A shot of me(as the player character) floating outside my fighter in an EVA(Extra-Vehicular Activity) suit. It has about 20 minutes of air supply, then it's back into the fighter.



Inside the cockpit of this same fighter. Notice I'm having a conversation with someone in the viewscreen. Missile status on the left, energy weapons indicators on the right, radar and shield/hull integrity in the middle. Distance and speed indicators above the radar screen. No object currently targeted so it only shows my speed, 160m/s.



The cockpit isn't especially high resolution as all the cockpits are ripped from the second game and added back in using a mod. X3 does not have cockpits by default which is a huge immersion destroyer. The modders put a lot of work in so all the indicators and everything work. The glass is even tinted, so it feels like you are inside a ship vs just floating in space with a HUD. You have full range of view around the cockpit and can check out all the details, including your pilot's seat, lol.

These shots are not the best representation of the game graphically, so here is a screenshot of one of the really huge stations that I didn't personally take.

http://www.legitreviews.com/images/reviews/365/x3.jpg

That particular station is HUGE. Several kilometers long and can dock capital ships.

I would get some shots of the really large ships, but my current savegame is in a really remote border territory and all the big military ships usually hang out around the core about 2 or 3 hours away lol.
This message has been edited since its posting. Latest edit was made on 14 Jan 2013 @ 9:14



AMD Phenom II X6 1100T 4GHz(20 x 200) 1.5v 3000NB 2000HT, Corsair Hydro H110 w/ 4 x 140mm 1500RPM fans Push/Pull, Gigabyte GA-990FXA-UD5, 8GB(2 x 4GB) G.Skill RipJaws DDR3-1600 @ 1600MHz CL9 1.55v, Gigabyte GTX760 OC 4GB(1170/1700), Corsair 750HX
Detailed PC Specs: http://my.afterdawn.com/estuansis/blog_entry.cfm/11388
#8348
No Rich, LGA1366 is unique, so a cooler designed for it will not fit the new sockets.
The overclocking performance of i7 900 CPUs was good, but variable. Some made 4.0-4.2Ghz and others only 3.4. Worth mentioning also that 3.7-3.8 was often the limit for even the top end air coolers like TRUEs, before temps above 75C were reached, due to the high voltages and high 130W starting TDP. By all accounts, as long as you buy an unlocked chip, Sandy Bridge and Ivy Bridge CPUs are a doddle by comparison, so even were the original i5 700s, for which 4Ghz on air was basically a certainty...



Afterdawn Addict // Silent PC enthusiast // PC Build advisor // LANGamer Alias:Ratmanscoop
PC Specs page -- http://my.afterdawn.com/sammorris/blog_entry.cfm/11247
updated 10-Dec-13
#8349
Any decently OC'd i series CPU is already quite high performance. Sandy Bridge and Ivy Bridge are certainly faster than Bloomfield and Lynnfield, but not enough to make it worth the price of a new platform. what makes it worth the price are other things like OCing, heat output, power consumption, etc. Lynnfield(i7 9x0) is a power sucking monster, is unpredictable when OCing and hard to cool.

It's only too bad Intel couldn't settle on a socket as I still get confused by all the versions of i7/i5. I think Bloomfield(1st Gen i7) was LGA1366, Lynnfield(1st Gen i5) was LGA1156(what Sam uses), Sandy Bridge was 1155, 2011 for the server platform. Ivy Bridge is 1155 as well.

Now do Ivy Bridge CPUs work on Sandy Bridge motherboards, or are they chipset and socket dependent? Have Intel actually decided to settle with a common socket for now?



AMD Phenom II X6 1100T 4GHz(20 x 200) 1.5v 3000NB 2000HT, Corsair Hydro H110 w/ 4 x 140mm 1500RPM fans Push/Pull, Gigabyte GA-990FXA-UD5, 8GB(2 x 4GB) G.Skill RipJaws DDR3-1600 @ 1600MHz CL9 1.55v, Gigabyte GTX760 OC 4GB(1170/1700), Corsair 750HX
Detailed PC Specs: http://my.afterdawn.com/estuansis/blog_entry.cfm/11388
#8350
The sockets are far from straightforward, but to be honest, I don't think understanding what goes where is any more difficult than with AMDs given the chipset revisions and potential pitfalls from outdated boards that need BIOS revisions etc.

In my opinion for compatibility's sake, a different socket for each new generation of CPU is fine by me, as it stops all the problems arising from BIOSes.

I started writing a verbose explanation of the i-series CPUs, but there's too many, so I'l do it in tabular form in a bit.

The important bit:

First: LGA1366 (2008) - BLOOMFIELD (130W) i7 900 series only (quads except 970/980 which are hex and were introduced later in 2010)
Second: LGA1156 (2009) - LYNNFIELD i3 (dual) 500, i5 600/700 (6 are dual, 7 are quad), i7 800 (quad) series only
Third: LGA1155 (2011) - SANDY BRIDGE - i3 & i5 2000 series, i7 2600/2700 series
and IVY BRIDGE - i3, i5 & i7 3000 series
Fourth: LGA2011 (2012) - SANDY BRIDGE-E - i7 3800/3900 series (all hex except 3820 [quad]) - top-end products only
Fifth: LGA1150 (2013) - HASWELL - i3/i5/i7 4000 series

LGA1366: First to feature CPU integrated memory controller - relies on northbridge for PCI express (32x) bus. - Chipset generation 5 (X58)
LGA1156: First to feature CPU integrated PCIe controller - no northbridge on any new Intel chipset from this point - CPU PCIe controller limited to 16x - Chipset generation 5 (P/H/Q 55/57)
LGA1155: Chipset generation 6 (P67/Z68 etc.)
LGA2011: Chipset generation 7 (X79 etc.)
LGA1150: Chipset generation 8 (Z88 etc.)



Afterdawn Addict // Silent PC enthusiast // PC Build advisor // LANGamer Alias:Ratmanscoop
PC Specs page -- http://my.afterdawn.com/sammorris/blog_entry.cfm/11247
updated 10-Dec-13

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