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The Official Graphics Card and PC gaming Thread

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#8351
Some more screenies for Rich. Now you can't complain that I never take screenshots :P

That large ship taking up the right side of my screen is a Teledi Albatross Heavy Freighter. I tried to get a full shot but my fighter was fresh from battle and damaged. It was slowly leaking oxygen.



This is a shot of my new fighter fresh from the shipyard. An Argon Nova Raider. The direct successor to the Argon Elite from my previous screen shots and the above cockpit shot.



This huge complex is a Corporate HQ for a large arms developer. This is an approach shot as I come into dock for armament and fitting after purchasing the new fighter.



A close-up shot of one of the towers on that complex with my fighter shown for scale. These space stations are HUGE.





AMD Phenom II X6 1100T 4GHz(20 x 200) 1.5v 3000NB 2000HT, Corsair Hydro H110 w/ 4 x 140mm 1500RPM fans Push/Pull, Gigabyte GA-990FXA-UD5, 8GB(2 x 4GB) G.Skill RipJaws DDR3-1600 @ 1600MHz CL9 1.55v, Gigabyte GTX760 OC 4GB(1170/1700), Corsair 750HX
Detailed PC Specs: http://my.afterdawn.com/estuansis/blog_entry.cfm/11388
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#8352
World of Tanks 0.8.3
Crossfire support: No
SLI support: No

Minimum of 60fps:
No current stock CPUs capable
Intel Core i7 2600K @ 3.85Ghz, Core i5 2500K/i7 3930K @ 4.00Ghz
1920x1080 (No FXAA) (1GB AMD, 1.25GB NV VRAM Required): Radeon HD7970, Geforce GTX660Ti
1920x1080 (Hi FXAA) (1GB AMD, 1.25GB NV VRAM Required): Radeon HD7970GE, Geforce GTX660Ti
2560x1600 (No FXAA) (1.25GB VRAM Required): No current GPUs capable (GTX680@40Hz, HD7970GE/GTX670@35Hz)
2560x1600 (Hi FXAA) (1.5GB VRAM Required): No current GPUs capable (HD7970GE/GTX680@35Hz)

Average 60fps:
Intel Core i5 760 @ 2.90Ghz/2500K stock, i7 930/2600K/3930K stock
AMD FX-8350 Stock, Phenom II X4/X6 @ 4.00Ghz, FX-4170 @ 4.35Ghz, FX-6100 @ 4.15Ghz, FX-8150 @ 3.95Ghz, FX-4300 @ 4.10Ghz, FX-6300 @ 3.90Ghz
1920x1080 (No FXAA): Radeon HD6970/7870, Geforce GTX480/560Ti/660
1920x1080 (Hi FXAA): Radeon HD7870, Geforce GTX570/660
2560x1600 (No FXAA): Radeon HD7970GE/GTX680
2560x1600 (Hi FXAA): HD7970GE, No Nvidia GPU capable (GTX680@55Hz)



Afterdawn Addict // Silent PC enthusiast // PC Build advisor // LANGamer Alias:Ratmanscoop
PC Specs page -- http://my.afterdawn.com/sammorris/blog_entry.cfm/11247
updated 10-Dec-13
#8353
World of Tanks has rather buggy performance. Have been playing constantly for well over a year and changes happen quite often. It recently got moved to a new rendering engine.



AMD Phenom II X6 1100T 4GHz(20 x 200) 1.5v 3000NB 2000HT, Corsair Hydro H110 w/ 4 x 140mm 1500RPM fans Push/Pull, Gigabyte GA-990FXA-UD5, 8GB(2 x 4GB) G.Skill RipJaws DDR3-1600 @ 1600MHz CL9 1.55v, Gigabyte GTX760 OC 4GB(1170/1700), Corsair 750HX
Detailed PC Specs: http://my.afterdawn.com/estuansis/blog_entry.cfm/11388
#8354
Finally sorted my specs page out again after the discussion we had earlier in the dream build thread (See sig). Pictures perhaps to follow.
Funny the effect spammers can have!

There's too little light to take decent photos this late at night, but a bad set of images has been uploaded here:
http://imgur.com/L0IGKbl,OUSuzBj,lqjHX9P,qq5zJaR,tzpuxH4,RIT0fPf
This message has been edited since its posting. Latest edit was made on 18 Jan 2013 @ 19:26



Afterdawn Addict // Silent PC enthusiast // PC Build advisor // LANGamer Alias:Ratmanscoop
PC Specs page -- http://my.afterdawn.com/sammorris/blog_entry.cfm/11247
updated 10-Dec-13
#8355
Very nice Sam! I personally can't imagine myself using such a wide set of peripherals. It takes me a long time to grow accustomed to a new KB and mouse for gaming. I tend to go for the least extra functionality possible with keyboards.

My ideal keyboard is an absolutely standard QWERTY layout. My only requirement outside of a clean layout is volume controls. No macros, no anything. Am currently using one very badly beaten Saitek Eclipse Blue which has served me faithfully for quite a while now. Previously had an Eclipse red, but at that point in time, the parts quality was lower and the reds had failure issues.

Having noticed the keyboards you use though, I am interested in a QPad now. Have considered other mechanical keyboards, but I absolutely must have back lighting, so Das Keyboard is out the window. Otherwise I would have picked one up second hand a while ago.

As for mouse, am rocking an aged Logitech MX518 v1. Intend to replace my MX518 with a G400(MX518 v3) when it finally ceases to work.

Used an MS/Razer Habu for about a year which was the best mouse I have ever had the pleasure to use. Unfortunately, Microsoft insisted on having a hand in the internals, and put piss poor click switches in. Double click every time I single click...

I tend to hang onto peripherals until they're junk and no longer useful. Since I only run two PCs at any given time, I can normally get away with a KVM switch for controlling both systems. When other people are using the Intel box, any mouse and keyboard laying around will do the trick. I have an old mechanical IBM keyboard from 1983 that you could drop a bull elephant with then write the entire collected works of Shakespeare. Then entire frame of it is steel and it must weigh ~20 pounds.
This message has been edited since its posting. Latest edit was made on 19 Jan 2013 @ 6:07



AMD Phenom II X6 1100T 4GHz(20 x 200) 1.5v 3000NB 2000HT, Corsair Hydro H110 w/ 4 x 140mm 1500RPM fans Push/Pull, Gigabyte GA-990FXA-UD5, 8GB(2 x 4GB) G.Skill RipJaws DDR3-1600 @ 1600MHz CL9 1.55v, Gigabyte GTX760 OC 4GB(1170/1700), Corsair 750HX
Detailed PC Specs: http://my.afterdawn.com/estuansis/blog_entry.cfm/11388
#8356
Yeah well the basic peripherals for the server function as a 'console' and not something I use routinely. The same goes for Princess, as they're only used when the PC is in situ here - when it travels to LAN parties with me, I take the Qpad and Diamondback.
Since the MK-50 and MK-85 I have use the same type of Cherry MX Switch (red type) they're interchangeable as far as I'm concerned when I use them (although the MK-85 keys are gloss finish, presumably for the backlight, whereas the MK-50 have the same textured finish as most standard keyboards).

To be honest, there are lots of backlit mechanical keyboards you can try - Corsair, Coolermaster and Razer are all offering some interesting ones as well as Qpad. Be careful though - despite the considerable expense, while you get a very robust keyset (since Cherry MX switches are not manufactured by the keyboard manufacturer) the rest of the unit is typically no better quality than your average gaming keyboard, and high-end gaming keyboards have a far lower build quality than standard office keyboards.
I'd therefore say use caution with QPAD. The majority of QPAD backlights start failing after a few weeks/months of use - they work, but will flicker annoyingly, which can be very distracting when playing games. The fault is not an electrical one, but a control component so not user-reparable, and Qpad have no manufacturer warranty system, so it's down to your retailer whether you'd be able to exercise a return.
It's a shame, as apart from that the keyboard is excellent. I'm not saying you won't see the same problems with other mechanical keyboards, but the MK-80 and MK-85 are very expensive products, and you can get backlit mechanical keyboards for less.



Afterdawn Addict // Silent PC enthusiast // PC Build advisor // LANGamer Alias:Ratmanscoop
PC Specs page -- http://my.afterdawn.com/sammorris/blog_entry.cfm/11247
updated 10-Dec-13
#8357
Originally posted by estuansis:
Everything is very detail oriented, and really makes you feel like you're living the daily rigors of a space jock. I love pulling a light tanker loaded down with freshly mined ore into a crowded space dock. Traffic control warnings, landing procedure, pirate attacks preventing docking, everything is so dense and interactive.
Well, regarding those screenshots, Jeff, including the ones on this page, with the really GIANT spacestations, and giant ships, the expanse of the game is mind-boggling. I'm amazed that there is no default console, until you employ a mod - I can see how you and the rest of the modding community can get very enthusiastic about a particular title and want to spend the time to improve the game - from crysis, to this space game.


Quote:
HDAO means High Definition Ambient Occlusion. This is basically regular SSAO rendered with more depth and detail, but not based on the direction of the sun. Supposedly this gives SSAO a performance edge over HBAO. It does look better than normal SSAO.

HBAO Best
HDAO middle
SSAO Worst

In my opinion HBAO is the best looking one, but HDAO is still better looking than SSAO. IF HBAO and HDAO are too intensive though, having SSAO is MUCH better than no AO at all. Unless you're very detail oriented, it's hard to spot a precise difference between the three, but the overall effect will be noticeable.
Thanks for that Jeff. Inasmuch as Sam's charts showed that HDAO consumes the most resources, and when I went into my ULTRA settings I saw that I had been running HDAO, I assumed that HDAO was the best, and I did some comparisons. I had a very hard time determining whether or not I liked HDAO more than HBAO, although I thought they both clearly beat SSAO.

I won't post those comparisons today - that's the subject for a future post - plus a future post about the comparison of no AA, 2x, 4x, and 8x AA - plus a future post about man-eating crocodiles, plus a future post for Kevin about shooting up the place, on a scale that nothing in New York City can touch.

Kevin went out hunting, and decided the game was boar-ring.

Hahahaha.

Kevin, you can rage for days in this game and have running firefights with bands of enemies who will continue to drive in on jeeps, and you can experience all the bloodshed that even you would need, to consider the game a shooter.

For example, I love this hill deep in enemy territory - there's an enemy jeep whose gas tank just exploded out on the roadway - but see that jeep full of soldiers barreling in on me?




Now you see them, now you don't.




I don't know about you, Kevin, but I don't think I'd be in that jeep heading straight into my fire. A boar has some nice big tusks, but that box on my left is supplying me with some rather biggish 50 caliber rounds, and those things tend to put some rather biggish holes into things. The other mounted machine gun in the game is a rapid-firing 30, but this bad boy is the big ol 50 - watch how it tears things up - watch how it shoots those steel fences out of the way (the 30 won't budge the fences) so you can park your jeep above a busy intersection a hundred yards from here.




You know, so you can direct traffic. "You guys (BLAM!) you guys spread out over there, and you guys, yeah you, you guys just go paint the town red (with your blood) over on that other side."

Trust me, it's a shooter Kevin. LOL

I have gotten a little behind on things, but I see that the i7 that I may get, is problematic both in terms of producing a huge amount of heat - THAT for sure is true - and maybe being very hard to overclock. Also - I thought I understood correctly that the footprint of the chip, from 1366 to 1125, is not very different - so I thought most of the coolers could be moved across the families, meaning that I can spend $100+ on a silver arrow for 1366, and move it over to 1125 one day. Let me go google that for a second.

Originally posted by Sam:
No Rich, LGA1366 is unique, so a cooler designed for it will not fit the new sockets.



Okay, I see that 1125 and 1126 aren't included, so let me see what I would be missing. I am surprised to see 775, and I think that's my current quad core 9450 - meaning maybe I should go get it right now and get this 9450 up from 3.343 to the 3.6 you guys said I should be able to hit, at fsb 450 (I'm at 418 now) and that WILL help me a bit with my cpu limitation.

LOL, in looking back I guess there is no such thing as 1125 or 1126, it's 1155 and 1156. So from what I understand now, this particular cooler WILL handle the new 1155 and 1156 slots (if it handles 1156 as stated on the literature, that means it also handles 1155 as well, doesn't it, since the physical size of the slot 1155 and 1156 are the same, right?)

Anyway, please correct me if I am reading something wrong, but it looks like this cooler, if I get the troublesome nehalem card free (like Jeff says, free is not a lot of money, and that includes at least 8 gigs of Ram, maybe even 12, plus a pretty good gigabyte mobo as I recall with 3 16x expansion slots) will be able to move with me over to ivy bridge if I ever make that move.

I have been reading some troubling articles about micro-stuttering, particularly with the new 7000 series. Wiki has a new article on it that quotes Tom's Hardware, plus a new swedish overclocking web site article. The bad thing about the swedish article besides being in swedish with a weak google translation - but better than nothing - is that it showed a WILD swing in timings using crossfire 7970s - the good thing about the Tom's article, which is a little dated on the 6000 family that you guys, Sam and Jeff, currently own, is that the cf micro-stutter is bad, but by adding a third card it drops down to almost nothing - a result that shocked Tom's and I would hope carries forward with the 7000 family, because I have noticed and posted about the choppiness of Far Cry 3 for me with cf 7950s.




The dark auburn line on top, is the triple cf, with none of the wild timing differences of the greenish line below it. You don't get all that much more average fps, but you virtually eliminate the micro-stutter, totally worth it even if you didn't get any performance gain at all. Choppiness sucks big time, fluidity is BLISS!

So, if I get the nehalem with 3 slots, I can get rid of these HIS cards that are almost 3 slots wide, and get three 2-slot cards ... OR ... I could get a 7970x2 3-slot card, and keep one of my HIS 3 slot cards, and run the 7970x2 with my 7950 which I am pretty sure will work - I think I have read newegg reviews on the 7950 where the guy paired it with a 7970 for good results, maybe even two 7970s as I recall - yeah I think so - I'll go try to find the review. I realize I wouldn't get the full benefit of the 2 extra 7970s, but for sure I would at least get the benefit of like adding a second and third 7950, which might only add 50% scaling for the third card, but the main benefit would be that top line on the Tom's chart - the elimination of micro-stuttering.

What would be the economics?

Three 2-slot cards, at $300 each, less selling my two HIS cards for $400 for the pair, means $500 out of pocket, or one 7970x2 for $900 and sell one card for $200, means $700 out of pocket. Plus another $100 for the silver arrow either way.

But ... those 7970s would run a little slower to scale down to my 7950, and consume less energy sitting on one platform, with a lower tdp total than if on two discrete cards - maybe under 350 watts total? So my 750 watt toughpower might just barely keep up with my system for now, enabling me to avoid the expense of a bigger power supply, hopefully for the foreseeable future. (By the 9000 family these things will be on 22nm, right?, so using less and less power as time goes by.) Plus I like the extra beefy cooler on my 3-slot HIS IceQ, and the 3-slot 7970x2 that HIS has built but not on market yet looks equally well-cooled.

Let me conclude with a couple of screenshots, since Jeff was so generous with those incredible space screens.

And also, since Tyler, the very adept Ubisoft tech guy who helped me get past my QTE glitch and finish the game, has kept our ticket open and recently told me to continue to link him and his Ubi friends to my future screenshots, let me shout out,

WELCOME TYLER AND THE UBISOFT TECH SUPPORT TEAM - YOU GUYS ROCK!!

I will be posting more in the future, but here are just a couple screenshots to close out this post - this is from a group of 92 that I have culled out as my all-time favorites, beyond the crocodile and AA and HDAO comparison shots.

Notice how well they do motion blur. Most of my favorites have to do with water - just like with Far Cry 2 - and most of them are on this green crocodile-infested river.




Fortunately, while the cf 7950s may be giving me major micro-stutter, you don't really feel it in a vehicle, and the wave runner ride feels very fluid and lovely out on that incredible reflecting water!

Way earlier in the game, before I figured out how to trick the director into spawning a wave runner on the river (other than the one you can steal for 2 minutes by pretending to enter the slalom race) I had many shots from out in the ocean where there are a lot of wave runners.




Oh, and did I mention that I have a compulsion to shoot any shark I see - I mean - that's what sharks are for, right, for shooting? Especially in a boat with a mounted machine gun - float down to the bottom good sharkie.




But on a pier with my bow and arrow, that's good too for shark hunting. It takes two arrows, then dive in and get the arrows back, and make sure none of his shark buddies are around wanting revenge.

This shot was nowhere near any sharks - there's nothing but crocs in this river and they only need one arrow - and I pretty much walk around the game all the time now like this, they call me Robin Hood. Way over there is my favorite safe house where I now have a "46" save folder with a wave runner parked right there - no more need to trick the director.




Rich
#8358
The beginning is a little too long. It takes a while to get into a mode that I'm familiar with. Killing the boars, and gathering plants wasn't the problem. It's the incessant tutorials, and ultimately getting stuck on one of the screens. I don't believe it was crippled by the crack/hack either. Call me slow, or whatever, but I could not figure out how to get off of a particular screen. Perhaps that's ultimately why I'm so annoyed :S I'll probably give it another go. Perhaps today when I reinstall my GTX 260. I'm gonna see if it still runs. Honestly though, it's rapidly decreasing in price. I'd be lucky to get $75 for it. So if it does run, I'm better off keeping it for a backup GPU. Perhaps save it for a build.

I guess I can remain patient, and wait til I get the new AM3+ board.



To delete, or not to delete. THAT is the question!
#8359
Rich, to clarify on the coolers:

There is no such thing as socket 1125/1126, the correct names are LGA1155 (Sandy Bridge/Ivy Bridge - current, being replaced this year) and LGA1156 (Lynnfield - older, what I currently use).
These sockets are fairly similar size-wise, but are not interchangeable for CPUs. LGA1366 is the older Bloomfield socket for the original heavyweight i7s such as the one you have (or will have?). It is markedly different from the other sockets physically. It has also now been superceded by LGA2011 for the new i7s (3900 series hex CPUs).

However, it is possible, as you've seen with the Silver Arrow, to get coolers that fit all sockets. How they do this is by using a generic base, with an adapter that attaches the base to the cooler - different adapter for each socket. Sometimes they're included, sometimes they're not.

The base Thermalright coolers look like this:


Here is an example of one of the bolt brackets, on this occasion for AMD's AM2 socket:


As you see, this attaches (and this is a fiddly process!) over the top of the base block, attached to the CPU by the spring-loaded screws and black backplate you see underneath.

As it happens, neither my main gaming PC or file server use natively supported sockets for their coolers.
My gaming PC uses an Ultra-120 Extreme Rev. C designed for LGA775 and LGA1366 but with a purchased bolt-thru kit to add support for LGA1156. It works, but isn't as elegant as the proper configurations, as the cooler can only be attached in a forward-back airflow direction, not upward-out as I had the LGA775 cooler configured.
The file server, being a 4U rackmount case and not a tower, will not fit a full-height 120mm Thermalright, but there is a special 4U version of the HR-01 that fits - trouble is, it's a server case, so is only designed for server boards (LGA771), thus only comes with the bolt kit for such. Fortunately since I had a spare LGA775 bracket leftover from the aforementioned Ultra-120, I used that, and it fits, after a bit of swearing :P


Now onto the discussion of micro-stuttering.
First things first with that graph, let's put it into perspective:
-The graph is from Tom's Hardware. That may not be such the case any more, but previously Tom's Hardware have had affiliations with nvidia and have biased their testing methodology to suit, so treat anti-AMD results with scepticism.
-Further, their competence latterly is questionable. I mean just look at that graph. The axes aren't labelled! It's obvious that fps is on the y axis (although nothing says it isn't ms per frame), but what's on the x? Frame count, or second count?
-One of the cards being used is an HD6870X2. This is not a native product, and was an unofficial third-party solution produced, I believe by TUL (parent company of PowerColor). Bugs and inconsistencies it suffers are not necessarily indicative of problems the HD6 series or HD6800 range suffer as a whole.
With that over with, micro-stuttering is a real issue, and it's something you will always get with crossfire, to varying levels of significance.
General rule to follow here is, aim for 60fps. With a single card you can drop below 60fps and it not cause too much irritation, with crossfire, if you have a title that microstutters badly, you'll find it very annoying indeed, so if you can't make 60fps with crossfire, you may be better off just turning the detail down.
Some games suffer more than others. Both Serious Sam 3 and Saints Row The Third have seen frame rates below 60fps recently on my system, but neither have really caused me issues with microstutter. Other titles it can be a nightmare. It's really down to how well the game balances load between the cards - if one card takes significantly longer to render its frame than the other, you will experience it. Also compound this with the previously discussed impacts of running on a 60Hz display below 60fps.

Please avoid the third-party HD7990 offerings. There is no HD7970 dual-GPU card in the official channel (it was cancelled), so the products you see out there are hacks produced by the partner brands - card, power management and all. Apart from being incredibly expensive (and imminently going to be outclassed by the HD8 series, even if not by that much), such cards are often very unreliable - The Powercolor cards shipped with a 100% DOA rate as there was a design defect in the cooler - since cards like these are not tested before being boxed (!) this wasn't picked up, and the various review sites out there all had to break the screwdrivers out before they could review the card.
Add to this the experience I had with a similar card two generations back with the HD5970 4GB from Sapphire. Both cards I received were DOA as neither had been tested before being packaged. Compare this to the previous top-end dual-card behemoths I had used, the reference-built HD4870X2, which offered me 2 1/2 years of faultless service, initial driver and motherboard issues notwithstanding.
Lastly, there's simply no point - two regular HD7970s are cheaper and easier to work with. The only downsides are extra noise and hotter temperatures (and only when compared with the non-reference dual cards - typically one reference dual card e.g. the HD6990 will be noisier than two singulars, e.g. HD6970s). Really though, small price to pay for what you get.
I could quite happily have bought one HD6990 instead of my two HD6970s, but I chose not to. I paid less, got a quieter PC, and unlike with the HD4870X2s, had no plans to move back to a quad graphics system again. It was great to have, but having a PC produce 60db+ when gaming as well as heating up the room with the same potency as a 1 bar electric fan heater, and drawing 800W from the mains in the process (the equivalent of $1 in energy every 5 hours), it just wasn't necessary given the huge leap in efficiency gained from the HD6 series versus HD4.



Afterdawn Addict // Silent PC enthusiast // PC Build advisor // LANGamer Alias:Ratmanscoop
PC Specs page -- http://my.afterdawn.com/sammorris/blog_entry.cfm/11247
updated 10-Dec-13
#8360
Doesn't seem so bad when you put it that way:

"(the equivalent of $1 in energy every 5 hours)"

However, I still plan to go forward with my electrical scheme :p Imagine powering your entire home, and only paying a constant 10 - $15 a month...



To delete, or not to delete. THAT is the question!
#8361
Alright, let's put it another way :)
$1 for 5 hours means if you're a hardcore gamer and play 30 hours a week (and that's not particularly hardcore in the grand scheme of things by the way), then that's $312 a year - or the cost of a fairly substantial graphics card outright, every year! If you skip a generational gap like I have then the cost of upgrading to new tech is fairly similar to the electricity bill of running said tech...
This message has been edited since its posting. Latest edit was made on 20 Jan 2013 @ 19:48



Afterdawn Addict // Silent PC enthusiast // PC Build advisor // LANGamer Alias:Ratmanscoop
PC Specs page -- http://my.afterdawn.com/sammorris/blog_entry.cfm/11247
updated 10-Dec-13
#8362
Ok, lol. So Kevin, you might give the game a try again - you're not going to get away that easy as I went out and took 150 screen shots just for you, lol. Anyways - I'll post those later - not all 150 for heavens sake, but about 20. They show how to set up the jeeps if you like that killing location, haha.

Oh, yeah, I had that trouble at first - backing up from a screen - just get used to hitting the Esc key - that pretty much backs you out of any of those menus, like for crafting or buying ammo, etc.)

Sam - good info about the coolers - I'll make sure it comes with any brackets I will need for moving across platforms.

Regarding micro-stuttering, your info was great especially since you are the one with ALL the experience up to quad cf.

But what you didn't really discuss was the main point of the Tom's review, flawed or not (and I am sorry that I forgot to link to it - they explain the graph of course.) They were surprised to find a major reduction in micro-stuttering, going to the third gpu. You have run quad cf, and got sick of all the hassle, but that's even one more card than I am talking about - I'm "just" talking about 3, lol.

Blaze told me that a good upgrade path would be to think in terms of a third card, when technology went past any crossfire set that I happened to own.

Well, if the third card is not really needed for today's whatever super game - but had a major effect on reducing microstutter, then to me it's worth it to go ahead and get the third card right away.

I'm caught in what Jeff rightly figured out is the 30" gaming dilemma - I run closer to 30 fps than he does - and so crossfire might not really get me fluidity. You say - "Turn down the settings" and I say "Keep the settings turned up to ultra and go get the third cf card."

Your graphics investment will be 50% greater, your energy costs will be higher as you point out, but it's all relative to - what is the desired end result? For me, I feel it would totally be worth it to spend a little more money for electricity and run the third card right now. One wants all the bells and whistles - the ULTRA visual experience - PLUS it should feel fluid.

When I'm on the wave runner - that's totally fluid, and I'm immersed in exquisite graphics. It's pure poetry in motion. When I'm running around on foot, I can feel the choppiness and it detracts from the gaming experience. If I can throw some money at that irritating situation, and have it pretty much go away, that sounds good to me, lol.

So - let me ask you once again - from your experience, do you tend to agree with their findings? If so, if I were to implement tri cf, either now or later with the 8000 family, am I right to expect a more fluid experience with reduced micro-stutter?

Rich
This message has been edited since its posting. Latest edit was made on 21 Jan 2013 @ 3:12
#8363
Well... waverunners and jeeps DO sound appealing. LOL!



To delete, or not to delete. THAT is the question!
#8364
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cG1x_gaNIb0

I INSIST THAT EVERYONE WATCH THIS NOW

I will do and buy whatever it takes to run this game maxed. Absolutely bleeding-edge next-gen Wing Commander. OMG. The PC Gaming Community has been waiting for this for 15 years. They've already smashed their donation goal, so the game is basically assured.

There are several great space games, but the last one to have a focused story with and sim-quality ship piloting was Star Wars X-Wing Alliance. While a fantastic game and fairly modern looking when upgraded, it's very old and severely limited.

I have played Wing Commander 3 and 4 all the way through. Probably the best, most immersive story I have ever fought my way through. Actually IMO better games than X-Wing Alliance, but nowhere near the graphics or technology. The gameplay is second to none though, and the stories are very meaningful with live-action cutscenes. You'd have to play to understand, but it is truly a classic and a legend of PC gaming.

I make the specific mention of Wing Commander because the creator of Wing Commander is working on this new title. I'm not sure if this universe will be connected to Wing Commander due to licensing issues, but if this game lives up to Wing Commander titles of old, it will be an earth shattering new benchmark in what can be achieved with video games and computer graphics technology.
This message has been edited since its posting. Latest edit was made on 21 Jan 2013 @ 4:28



AMD Phenom II X6 1100T 4GHz(20 x 200) 1.5v 3000NB 2000HT, Corsair Hydro H110 w/ 4 x 140mm 1500RPM fans Push/Pull, Gigabyte GA-990FXA-UD5, 8GB(2 x 4GB) G.Skill RipJaws DDR3-1600 @ 1600MHz CL9 1.55v, Gigabyte GTX760 OC 4GB(1170/1700), Corsair 750HX
Detailed PC Specs: http://my.afterdawn.com/estuansis/blog_entry.cfm/11388
#8365
Rich,

I didn't go into much detail about the 'surprise result' that 3-way crossfire nullifies microstutter, because typically, it doesn't. That may be an odd effect with a particular title at a particular resolution, but with a sample size of just 1, you can't assume that's typical behaviour. Microstutter does indeed still exist with more than 2 GPUs, and how it behaves in each title will depend on the title I'm afraid. It could also be that with three GPUs they have sufficient horsepower that they're reaching the CPU limit of the game, and that is therefore smoothing out the bumps.



Afterdawn Addict // Silent PC enthusiast // PC Build advisor // LANGamer Alias:Ratmanscoop
PC Specs page -- http://my.afterdawn.com/sammorris/blog_entry.cfm/11247
updated 10-Dec-13
#8366
Originally posted by Jeff:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cG1x_gaNIb0

I INSIST THAT EVERYONE WATCH THIS NOW

I will do and buy whatever it takes to run this game maxed. Absolutely bleeding-edge next-gen Wing Commander. OMG.
Looks amazing, but 'Achieved with CryEngine 3' was all I needed to know.
As a heads up, here are two noteworthy graphs of the lead title which of course is Crysis 3:








Afterdawn Addict // Silent PC enthusiast // PC Build advisor // LANGamer Alias:Ratmanscoop
PC Specs page -- http://my.afterdawn.com/sammorris/blog_entry.cfm/11247
updated 10-Dec-13
#8367
Quote:
Looks amazing, but 'Achieved with CryEngine 3' was all I needed to know.
This is being done by an entirely independent developer. There will likely be very little vendor bias, so I don't quite get what you mean here. The video itself is fully in-engine gameplay footage and it really does look that awesome. Check out some of the gameplay videos.
This message has been edited since its posting. Latest edit was made on 21 Jan 2013 @ 7:22



AMD Phenom II X6 1100T 4GHz(20 x 200) 1.5v 3000NB 2000HT, Corsair Hydro H110 w/ 4 x 140mm 1500RPM fans Push/Pull, Gigabyte GA-990FXA-UD5, 8GB(2 x 4GB) G.Skill RipJaws DDR3-1600 @ 1600MHz CL9 1.55v, Gigabyte GTX760 OC 4GB(1170/1700), Corsair 750HX
Detailed PC Specs: http://my.afterdawn.com/estuansis/blog_entry.cfm/11388
#8368
I'm not anticipating vendor-bias, I'm anticipating just a high level of hardware demand in general. If this game makes full use of the engine, it's unlikely that any hardware config no matter the cost is going to max the game out on release, even at 1080p.



Afterdawn Addict // Silent PC enthusiast // PC Build advisor // LANGamer Alias:Ratmanscoop
PC Specs page -- http://my.afterdawn.com/sammorris/blog_entry.cfm/11247
updated 10-Dec-13
#8369
Actually, Star Citizen is supposedly going to be quite highly polished and optimised at release. The footage you saw was very very early pre-alpha running in real time on commercially available hardware. That is not a Crysis-esque pre-render video, it's in-game footage.

Have looked around for specs estimates, and it's going to be demanding for sure, but somewhat reasonable. I would imagine it scales quite high, but we've all seen the room CryEngine has for tweaking out extra performance at zero cost.

One thing to be aware of is that this is going to be a no holds barred PC-only release. This will not suffer from cross-platform issues. It's in very capable hands. I would even be so bold as to guess my current hardware will be able to handle the game nearly maxed if I tweak it right.

CryEngine 3 is much better optimised than CryEngine 2, and capable of better visuals besides. Don't underestimate the power of a dedicated PC developer on the non-neutered CryEngine 3. Crysis 3 is probably a pretty strong indicator of how Star Citizen will perform. As Crysis 3 is going to be a PC centric release ported to consoles, it will also scale quite high. And from the look of the gameplay videos and screen shots, Crysis 1 will finally be deposed from its throne once and for all. Star Citizen will be competing with Crysis 3, not Crysis 1 anymore.
This message has been edited since its posting. Latest edit was made on 21 Jan 2013 @ 7:48



AMD Phenom II X6 1100T 4GHz(20 x 200) 1.5v 3000NB 2000HT, Corsair Hydro H110 w/ 4 x 140mm 1500RPM fans Push/Pull, Gigabyte GA-990FXA-UD5, 8GB(2 x 4GB) G.Skill RipJaws DDR3-1600 @ 1600MHz CL9 1.55v, Gigabyte GTX760 OC 4GB(1170/1700), Corsair 750HX
Detailed PC Specs: http://my.afterdawn.com/estuansis/blog_entry.cfm/11388
#8370
Interesting. Have horizontal flickering after updating to the latest 13.1 drivers. Seems to only happen when Trixx applies clock changes. Every time I scroll a page or move a window I get the flickering, especially when I watch movies. Games are unaffected.

10 minutes on Google shows this is a glitch with the latest versions of Catalyst. Changing color depth from 32 bit to 16 and back again clears it up completely. Just have to do it every time I reboot, which is maybe once a week. Takes all of 5 seconds, but still annoying.



AMD Phenom II X6 1100T 4GHz(20 x 200) 1.5v 3000NB 2000HT, Corsair Hydro H110 w/ 4 x 140mm 1500RPM fans Push/Pull, Gigabyte GA-990FXA-UD5, 8GB(2 x 4GB) G.Skill RipJaws DDR3-1600 @ 1600MHz CL9 1.55v, Gigabyte GTX760 OC 4GB(1170/1700), Corsair 750HX
Detailed PC Specs: http://my.afterdawn.com/estuansis/blog_entry.cfm/11388
#8371
Does it happen without Trixx?



Afterdawn Addict // Silent PC enthusiast // PC Build advisor // LANGamer Alias:Ratmanscoop
PC Specs page -- http://my.afterdawn.com/sammorris/blog_entry.cfm/11247
updated 10-Dec-13
#8372
Nope. Seems to be a common problem associated with Trixx. The video cards are otherwise fine and do extended gaming sessions with no artifacting. They idle in the upper 30s and low 40s. Mid 60s at load. Loaded in the mid 70s without the side fan.

Doesn't matter if I go through and play with ULPS either.
This message has been edited since its posting. Latest edit was made on 23 Jan 2013 @ 12:22



AMD Phenom II X6 1100T 4GHz(20 x 200) 1.5v 3000NB 2000HT, Corsair Hydro H110 w/ 4 x 140mm 1500RPM fans Push/Pull, Gigabyte GA-990FXA-UD5, 8GB(2 x 4GB) G.Skill RipJaws DDR3-1600 @ 1600MHz CL9 1.55v, Gigabyte GTX760 OC 4GB(1170/1700), Corsair 750HX
Detailed PC Specs: http://my.afterdawn.com/estuansis/blog_entry.cfm/11388
#8373
Another reason why I stopped using programs like that. I've had issues with programs like Redline, Afterburner, Trixx and so on ever since I first started using them. Afterburner was good for the OSD, but even that caused some problems. When you add complexities of crossfire and/or dual monitors to the mix, it pays to eliminate unknowns like those...



Afterdawn Addict // Silent PC enthusiast // PC Build advisor // LANGamer Alias:Ratmanscoop
PC Specs page -- http://my.afterdawn.com/sammorris/blog_entry.cfm/11247
updated 10-Dec-13
#8374
Afterburner is a terribly buggy and bloated program. Am not surprised it caused issues. Trixx itself has not been the cause of any problems, barring this horizontal flicker which is easily remedied, and not to be taken as a sign of damage.

OSDs have the potential to be buggy. My only OSD is the FRAPS numbers in the top left.

I use Trixx because AMD Overdrive does not let me push past 850MHz or control my fan profiles. Afterburner offers similar functionality, but requires other programs to be running as well, and does not work well with PowerPlay.

Trixx works without complaint with PowerPlay. Both with ULPS on and off. Both cards downclock their core and memory to the proper value of 300MHz when idle.
This message has been edited since its posting. Latest edit was made on 23 Jan 2013 @ 12:39



AMD Phenom II X6 1100T 4GHz(20 x 200) 1.5v 3000NB 2000HT, Corsair Hydro H110 w/ 4 x 140mm 1500RPM fans Push/Pull, Gigabyte GA-990FXA-UD5, 8GB(2 x 4GB) G.Skill RipJaws DDR3-1600 @ 1600MHz CL9 1.55v, Gigabyte GTX760 OC 4GB(1170/1700), Corsair 750HX
Detailed PC Specs: http://my.afterdawn.com/estuansis/blog_entry.cfm/11388
#8375
Originally posted by Kevin:
Well... waverunners and jeeps DO sound appealing. LOL!


And quad, I need to post some pictures of those. I hated quad at first - you're driving around in enemy territory for cryin out loud - bullets flying and you're in a quad? But actually, once you learn to drive the thing - like in those 60 second emergency medical delivery trials - where you are flying off of hills and stuff, then the quad is the most fun land vehicle in the game, with the best field of vision with nothing blocking you. You can race around in it, passing the friendly jeeps, trying not to fly off bridges, with the wind whistling in your ears - it's a rush - that and the wave runners. The jeeps are okay, and they have dune buggies that are pretty nice, almost as much fun as quads, and very stable, the most stable vehicle in the game.


Originally posted by Sam:
I didn't go into much detail about the 'surprise result' that 3-way crossfire nullifies microstutter, because typically, it doesn't. That may be an odd effect with a particular title at a particular resolution, but with a sample size of just 1, you can't assume that's typical behaviour. Microstutter does indeed still exist with more than 2 GPUs, and how it behaves in each title will depend on the title I'm afraid. It could also be that with three GPUs they have sufficient horsepower that they're reaching the CPU limit of the game, and that is therefore smoothing out the bumps.


Hmmm - I am very sad to hear that, and I hope you prove to be wrong, lol. But I appreciate the advice. Mentally I am geared up to buy a bigger power supply, replace my restrictive fan filters with the less-restrictive type to get the airflow I should be getting with all my fans, and think either in terms of 3 cards on a 3x mobo, or a double gpu card, plus a single - that's more realistic since they tend to be close to 3-wide.

The idea that 3 would solve micro-stutter somehow seems logical to me, but a sample of 1 is not science, that's for sure. So I will be eagerly waiting to hear a lot more about this. You mentioned 60 fps - is that the magic minimum fps that pretty much insulates one from micro-stutter? In other words, even with your sensitive eyes, if you are running at a minimum of 60, but some stuttering is really 40 at that instant, can you spot it?

Jeff I know I have to watch that video, but I'll do it next time I promise. It's almost dawn - no it's quite late and I have to shut off 3 computers and get to bed. But built on cryengine3 does sound nice - and I bet it is gorgeous.

By the way, you are the first one who talked about micro-stutter, so between you and Sam I hope we will keep up on this subject and see what solutions may arise.

Rich

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