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Millionaire vows to challenge MPAA suit
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The following comments relate to this news article:
article published on 25 July, 2006
Last November, software developer Shawn Hogan received a call from a lawyer representing Universal Pictures and the Motion Picture Association of America (MPAA) notifying him that they were suing him for downloading "Meet the Fockers" over the BitTorrent network.
Hogan strongly denies the MPAA's accusation, adding that he even owns the movie on DVD. The attorney said they would settle ... [ read the full article ]
Please read the original article before posting your comments.
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Senior Member
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1. August 2006 @ 13:06 |
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tranquash...that was a very good link you gave, and it gives a lot of insight into what is really going on...
It is no longer the RIAA or MPAA that is going after people...they just get the publicity. What it seems you have are companies that have sprung up offering snoop services, lawsuit services, and collection services to the RIAA and MPAA. These new companies are a whole sub-industry that don't even involve the record or movie companies anymore. These companies are a sub-industry that has a life of its own now. (And once you get down to the scum suckers you find at collection companies, watch out. By then, it is often too late to do anything.)
These snoop services are liken to a street drug informant. They get paid when they turn over info on illegal activity, whether true or not. And, it is becoming clear that snoop services aren't penalized for lying, just rewarded for supplying names. I can see now how RICO laws would apply, because the sub-industry is nothing more than a criminal enterprise at this point.
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 1. August 2006 @ 13:06
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Senior Member
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1. August 2006 @ 16:23 |
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Sheariah...I would also agree with you that it is extortion...or worse. And most people don't know enough about the system, nor have enough money, to challenge it. Notice the article said Hogan got a call from an attorney representing the MPAA. It didn't say the MPAA's attorney, which would be different. It looks like any attorney can represent the MPAA.
So...it looks like the MPAA isn't the one out there trying to find people illegally downloading movies...it is the entreprenuerial lawyers that hire freelance snoopers who take the snooper's info, run it through the legal system to get a judgement, and then turn it over to the collections side of their atty business to get money. No wonder there are so many sleazy lawyer jokes.
It also appears that the way things are set up, any hungry attorney could set up an MPAA or RIAA backed business. ...Just hire some high school kid as a snooper, and you are off to the races. And the MPAA or RIAA won't turn you away, because it makes them look like they are doing something for the movie companies that pay their salaries. What a racket! This needs to be exposed in a big way.
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1. August 2006 @ 17:01 |
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Scumbags working for leeches... or the other way around... lol
Chuck
"Men are slower to recognize blessings than misfortunes." Titus Livius (59BC-17AD)
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 1. August 2006 @ 17:02
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Senior Member
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1. August 2006 @ 17:43 |
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Each time there are gross excesses of profit, a crime is bound to be behind it, I am not surprised the MPAA, or other significants, all delve in questionable practices.
I hope they are humiliated in the courts time and time again, until they decidely change their less than honorable practices.
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goodswipe
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2. August 2006 @ 12:09 |
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Hulk Hogan RoX...I just shoplift all my dvd's from walmart and bestbuy...paying for a membership that allows you to rent movies is for the birds.
()()==========D`
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goodswipe
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2. August 2006 @ 12:10 |
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OH NO...not you again hot ice...
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Boberto96
Junior Member
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2. August 2006 @ 12:47 |
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Hahah goodswipe...lol...and yes I agree: not Hot Ice AGAIN!!
This whole thing seems to me like it is an unjust, unprecedented, extortionist plan. The only reason that this si being allowed to continue is because, like people have been saying, there are soooo many people that have their hands in each others pockets just digging that no one wants to give up secrets or dispose information (negative to the company snooping, lawyers, or record industry) that would collapse the whole framework.
This Hogan guy seems like he is a hero in his own right for sure, but i think he needs to direct his attention elsewhere. The real battle should be fought against the internet provider that allowed said information to be illegaly disclosed. Not only would this battle keep your online information safe and free from peering eyes it would also prevent any further incidences, regardless of whether it is for pirating or illegaly downloading movies, child pornography charges etc.
This is a difficult problem to adress, and many of the aspects have been well explained, in terms of stipulations. Address campers, malware, spyware etc.. And to think for a second that by allowing people to pump wireless broadband across the city, you aren't going to attract a huge crowd of freeloaders you must be insane... These freeloaders use up bandwidth, snoop files, DOWNLOAD ILLEGAL FILES etc..
I would be very interested in watching this thing progress and see where it ends up in the long-run.
I personally have a pessimistic outlook for this case, but thats not important. it is the cases in the future, after the ground has been broken that will be important. Once someone stirs the pot, it usually keeps on swirling long after you take the spoon out.
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AfterDawn Addict
4 product reviews
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2. August 2006 @ 12:49 |
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Boberto96
bah Hotice adds good comentary to what is most of the time boreing mindless posts.
and yes..I am talking abotu my posts >>
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Boberto96
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2. August 2006 @ 12:57 |
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Hahah, I was kidding... and pending Hot Ice reading my last and final post in the PSP racism thread, i hope SHE will understand ;)
Let's not get our panties in a bunch.
"..He had a sphincter that could crack a Diamond."
let's not get that uptight about things. Cheers, Hot Ice
Let the debate begin :)
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Senior Member
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2. August 2006 @ 14:03 |
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From Boberto96
Quote:
The real battle should be fought against the internet provider that allowed said information to be illegaly disclosed.
Unfortunately, this battle has already been fought a few years ago. It was lost in the US federal courts when the first RIAA lawsuits were launched. The ISP's spent a lot of money opposing the subpoenas. The court ruled that when an ISP got a subpoena listing addresses, the ISP had to turn over the names and contact info that went with them. The court was told names and IP addresses were always a 100% match. In a key case, this was true of some college students using the universities' network. The court did not foresee wireless hackers.
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 3. August 2006 @ 14:12
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Ballpyhon
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3. August 2006 @ 07:07 |
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Quote:
tranquash (Junior Member) 1 August 2006 14:17 Send private message to this user
I agree with you 100%; and that's why in Oregon "...RIAA victim Tanya Andersen has just counter-sued the RIAA for Oregon RICO violations, fraud, invasion of privacy, abuse of process, electronic trespass, violation of the Computer Fraud and Abuse Act, negligent misrepresentation, the tort of "outrage", and deceptive business practices..." see here: http://www.p2pnet.net/story/6445
So at least we can count two heros in this crusade against these crooks. :p
In response to this article, in my opinion it is no different then getting info about customers who purchase guns from the the FBI (since they have to be contacted EVERYTIME any firearm is purchased), and having their homes raided in search of evidence of murder. or people who own video cameras having their homes raided and searched for evidence of taking the video camera with them to the movies to bootleg a movie before it is released to DVD.
as Sheariah stated before it is possible for someone to use another persons pc as a proxy for the purposes of pirating electronic data.
what would happen to the artists and movie companies if we boycotted their products and services in protest? they wouldn't continue to make their billions of $$. I say we band together and boycott them all.
STOP FEEDING THE MACHINE, AND LET IT RUN OUT OF GAS!!!!!!!!
There's no right, there's no wrong, there is only popular opinion.
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 3. August 2006 @ 07:12
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Senior Member
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3. August 2006 @ 14:37 |
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Ballpyhon...boycott them? Never happen.
These companies have a right to make money, and it seems a lot of people are willing to pay for what they offer. The problem comes down to how these companies have gone about enforcing their rights to their income. Their system of thinking that if they track IP addresses that they will catch illegal downloaders is not foolproof, and so innocent people are getting accused, and often financially damaged. This is clearly wrong. Boycotting would do nothing to solve this very real problem of people being falsely accused of piracy.
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 3. August 2006 @ 15:08
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Ballpyhon
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3. August 2006 @ 15:53 |
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doc409 my point is that its the people that pay them by buying the products they sell. you said yourself that innocent people are being accused, which we all know is true. from a certain standpoint that is like taking money from whoever walks into a store, whether they buy something or not.
just because people surf the net does not mean they are downloading data/music illegally. just as people who walk into a store are not always going to buy or steal something.
when these unlucky individuals get sued for copyright infringement do the companies who are prosecuting them seize their computers and provide the proof of theft? sometimes they do, but most of the time they don't even let them know they are being sued until after a final judgement has been made. a prime example is a family got sued for piracy without even having a computer or Internet connection. as seen here>> http://www.afterdawn.com/news/archive/7495.cfm.
There's no right, there's no wrong, there is only popular opinion.
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 3. August 2006 @ 15:56
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Boberto96
Junior Member
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4. August 2006 @ 03:08 |
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haha, the way I see things... There has to be at least 100 people i know that have downloaded more than $2500 worth of music to their PC's....so I mean, the way I see, the out of court settlement is not really all too bad :). Just my opinion... At least if you're gonna download one song, download 1000, it's still just as illegal. Cheers to all the pirateer's out there :) keep up the good work.
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Senior Member
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4. August 2006 @ 14:21 |
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Well, if you can't handle my opinions goodswipe, I regret to inform you the office of complaints is permanently closed at this time.
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Senior Member
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5. August 2006 @ 22:44 |
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Dont battle amounst yourselves, do it against the leeches
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AfterDawn Addict
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5. August 2006 @ 22:50 |
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FredBun
can I still battle the voices in my head? :P
Until lobbying is a hanging offense I choose anarchy!
Ah modern gaming its like modern film only the watering down of fiction and characters is replaced with shallow and watered down mechanics, gimmicks and shiny-er "people".
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Junior Member
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6. August 2006 @ 07:46 |
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The ISP should be the one to blame, won't hold water. ISP's give you access to download child pornography, go to illegal gambling sites, purchase illegal drugs over the internet, etc.
Also, Purchasing a DVD only gives you the right to view it and maintain legal possession of the media. You don't own the movie.
"Because the music or movie is expensive and or crap" is completely irrelevant. The choice not to buy it is there.
The industry has us by the b..ls based on these arguments. The best and IMO, only defense is I DIDN'T DO IT.
There are hundreds of arguments for that. One is that it's POSSIBLE that two DNS resource records or CNAME's on the ISP’s server were pointing to the same IP. If that's true, the download could have been in a completely different house or in a different state for that matter. There are ways to prove exactly which path the download took but I doubt if the ISP's are keeping records like that.
I believe if the courts look at the fact that the same (IP address) can be held by more than one location, it will set a precedent that will end the lawsuits.
Another one. If someone goes into a gun store. Breaks the glass, loads the gun and shoots someone. Is the store owner going to be held liable? I doubt it, if the case was properly locked. Well, I have large parties all the time. It could have been a guest a friend or the fairy God mother who hacked into my computer and downloaded the movie.
The idea here is to put enough doubt in the court's mind that ISP identification is NOT 100% right all the time.
"Is that 3 thousand dollar bounty on the shark in cash or check?"
"We can do it the easy way...Or we can do it the REAL easy way."
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Member
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6. August 2006 @ 09:26 |
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Except that their bet is precisely that people won't get back at them for many reasons, money being a comon denominator, so they ask for a settlement of nothing less than $2,500 a piece.
For me is just a bunch of crooks extorting people. Like Doc409 has perfectly described as a "sub-industry" where scumbags and leeches are making their living.
Chuck
"Men are slower to recognize blessings than misfortunes." Titus Livius (59BC-17AD)
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 6. August 2006 @ 09:26
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AfterDawn Addict
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6. August 2006 @ 09:28 |
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ChiefBrdy
So I guess you are saying if you dont want to spend 50 on a game that you is worth almost half that,dont copy it dont download it dont paly it *L*
ah well I guess that works to,I check out games from tiem to tiem to see if they are worth buying soemtiems they are even if I have finished it befor,but most of the time they are not worth it.
I guess I should pickup a new hobby sicne I seem to finish games befor ever buying them >>
Until lobbying is a hanging offense I choose anarchy!
Ah modern gaming its like modern film only the watering down of fiction and characters is replaced with shallow and watered down mechanics, gimmicks and shiny-er "people".
http://zippydsmlee.wordpress.com/ |
Senior Member
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6. August 2006 @ 10:45 |
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ChiefBrdy...that is some good info about ISP's. Also, the majority of all IP addresses are dynamic...thus change frequently. My ISP changes my address every week. I am then assigned an address that someone else had earlier. This system makes for a lot of uncertainty over who downloaded what and when.
What many don't remember is the first of the RIAA lawsuits. They went after dedicated networks that assigned static addresses to students. It was very clear who had been downloading MP3's. That is why the Federal appeals court allowed the RIAA to serve its subpoenas for the names. This decision set into motion the present witch hunt which now involves dynamic addresses. Perhaps Hogan's defense will cause the courts to take another look at ISP technology. Fortunately the USA courts frown on shotgun approaches that end up accusing innocent people, and will make decisions that protect them.
As another note...ISP's are not legally required to keep records of IP addresses tied to users. It is in their best interest if they don't keep these records at all...because it is these very records and their accuracy that gets them called into court as a witness (for any kind of illegal activity). This costs them a lot of time and money they don't get back. I suspect they try to avoid these costs as much as possible...as it has been the ISP's that constantly object to subpoenas for customer names, etc.
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 6. August 2006 @ 10:47
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Junior Member
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6. August 2006 @ 13:12 |
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ZIppyDSM,
I'm not saying do or don't do anything. You can download a billion gigs for all I care. If you ever find yourself in court. Try telling the judge you did it because you don't think the media is worth the asking price. See how far that gets you.
"Is that 3 thousand dollar bounty on the shark in cash or check?"
"We can do it the easy way...Or we can do it the REAL easy way."
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Senior Member
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6. August 2006 @ 13:41 |
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I would like to point out that the Afterdawn forum does not support piracy. See #5 of the rules: http://forums.afterdawn.com/thread_view.cfm/2487
Clearly some people that visit AD engage in piracy, but there has always been a strong AD policy against anyone promoting it...that is, telling people they do it, telling how to do it, encouraging it, etc. There are legal reasons for this policy, and they should be respected. Many countries allow fair use, which can involve backing up owned media. This is not piracy, and a lot of the forum is devoted to this activity.
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 6. August 2006 @ 13:43
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AfterDawn Addict
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6. August 2006 @ 14:48 |
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ChiefBrdy
about the same as gettign in a hookers pants without money :P
Doc409
And the main leagle reasons is the man will come swooping down with his black boots and close the place down *L*
I rent games to, most arent worth keeping much less copying or keeping.
reminds me of getting baned from the raven forums becuse I couldnt shut up about Quake 4 suxing and sinces it so bad copying it dosent seem like such a "bad" thing,since they have the ID password thing on the severs no one is getting free MP paly. god I am so glad I was able to get my 50 back...Q4 is bad.....
Until lobbying is a hanging offense I choose anarchy!
Ah modern gaming its like modern film only the watering down of fiction and characters is replaced with shallow and watered down mechanics, gimmicks and shiny-er "people".
http://zippydsmlee.wordpress.com/ |
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Ballpyhon
Suspended due to non-functional email address
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6. August 2006 @ 21:43 |
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I just thought of something. hypothetically speaking is being in possession of copied/pirated software illegal? who is to say the IRAA and MPAA aren't just going around sticking burned copies of DVDs, MP3s and software in peoples mail slots. it would be a hell of a way to make a quick buck. 10 cents for the cost of the CD/DVD, then sue for thousands of dollars. that is one hell of a profit.
better yet, say Joe Blow pisses you off, just burn a CD and drop it in his mail box, call the CD police and watch him get carted off to jail. are they going to go door to door now and check everyones computer?
There's no right, there's no wrong, there is only popular opinion.
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