Originally posted by plazma247:

---

sheri1983 lol your not on apples payrol are you...

Anyway, doesnt matter if they say might, did and will is more the case, and you can call the people fools that ran the update.

But necessity is the mother of all invention :)

A fix is now right round the corner ;)

---

Amen brother! Sheesh, can we get a break around here. As for the comparison between MS live and this situation, the MS Live update bricked modded consoles that allowed for game ISO's, apple loses nothing by having people use unlocked phones as you are already locked into the contract with AT&T and have already paid apple their fair share.

Edit: Before I get slammed on it, I was reminded that the Live update only locked the modded boxes out of Live not bricked the console. Thanks Plazma

Personally, I think everyone is in the wrong. The modders screwed around with their phone, it got locked from an update, that's that. You broke your contract and now have no legal ground. However, Apple should not have put updates out that would lock a modded phone. It is pretty obvious that the update was meant to do that, possibly among other stuff, because it is not bricked and it can still make 911 calls as per the FCC regulation. Part/all of the update was meant to lock up modded phones. This is simply Apple being a [high pitch ring] to it's customer base that does not want to have to only use AT&T with their $600 phone. Back to the other side of the issue though, the modders did in fact break their warranty contract by modding the phone. As Svtstang said, you play with fire, you're gonna get burned. The only thing is that Apple jumped out of the ambulance with a blow torch...
Point is, the modders have no legal ground (other than a loophole), and Apple is just morally being a [high pitch ring].

Edit- Grammer/Spelling

Originally posted by WierdName:

---

Point is, the modders have no legal ground (other than a loophole), and Apple is just morally being a [high pitch ring].

---

But they DO have an alternative! They can go to court and let a judge know that apple is trying to force a monoply of service on it's customers!

Apple putting a clause in their user contract does not maan anything. Nor does it automatically make it legal.Everyone just assumes it is, because it is in their contract. Not so.

There have been other legal cases that because a company had something in their contract, people thought it must have been legal. Until it was challenged in court and the company lost...then it was the company that had to backpedal.

So I do not agree with the thinking that because it is in a contract you sign, it is automatically legal!

The phone is bricked, it wont function as normal... bricked is a very lose term applied by moddes to flashs which went wrong.

ok originally its was used for a device which wouldnt startup, but as the years pass by this term has been used in very loose way.

Its possible to completely brick a device and also possible in most cases to recover a bricked device.

no legal ground "other than a loophole" ?

What loop hole....

I think you will find they never broke their contract, the would have still had to continue paying for the service contract which they agreed to be signed up to for 18 months.

However the phones owned out right from day 1, which means you should by right be able to do what you want with it, even if its something that will invalidate the warwanty, as long as you continue to let the mobile contract runs it term and then cancel, you are not breaking contract term (agreed period of contract).

So if your saying that its not legal for me to put that sim into another phone (not the iphone) and use it with my contract which came with the iphone, thats fine. So why should it be any diffirent to do the reverse of this and put the iphone on another provider just as long as i keep paying the contract that came with the iphone.

As webe123 said even tho they have possibily added something to that effect to the contract doesnt mean its legal.

As i said before this is the first time that an offical firmware has rendeded a moded device inoperable after a flash as far im aware, with every other device an original firmware is whats used to unbrick them.

I think anyone who keeps on saying the modders should just accept it blah blah are being too narrow sighted to be able to look at the bigger picture.

Its the fact apple has done something that not really been done before in the electronics world, the xbox hack detect was close in a lose sort of way to this but its not really anything on the same level as apples lock it all down approach.

Anyway the other side to this will be the legalities to the current iphone tactics as the phone starts to appear across the rest of the world in the coming months and weeks.

where/are the updates mandatory?

Well the iphone needs to have more flexibility for consumers before it can really make its mark it needs not to be exclusive but it needs to be inclusive.

A monopoly? You have made valid points prior to this, but this is a false statement. When did an exclusivity clause become a monopoly? The iPhone is Apple's creation, if they so wish to only allow a certain service provider to use the product then they can. By doing so they are not single handily taking over the mobile phone market. I am not phone savvy but I can assure you there are other phone models that are exclusive to individual provider's.

Maybe I should restate what I was saying. I meant that the modders have no legal standpoint because they modded their phones which voided the hardware's warranty. However, the update was a load of B.S. and Apple locking the phone to AT&T- and other companies locking phones too- is also bull. But from a legal standpoint, the modders are screwed because they can't defend themselves because they modded their phones. And what I meant by loophole was something unforeseen that can turn the issue around and give the modders the high ground. This could be something like proving that Apple did in fact screw them over by purposely bricking their phones.

Edit- Also, when I say it's bull to lock the phones to specific carriers, I mean that it is just a nice way to screw over the consumers after they purchase the phone. It is however, perfectly legal for them to make a phone network exclusive but I think there is a law limiting for how long a phone can remain locked before it has to be unlocked per the customers request.

@svtstang and sheri1983

If I ever meet you two in real life, i will buy the beers.
I'm so sick and tired of people whinning about crap, they choose to screw up in the first place.
You bought the phone, you signed the contract, now live with it.
If you choose to mod the phone and a new update screws it up, who's fault is that? YOURS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
No one forced you to buy the phone or sign the contract. PERIOD!!
But then some people just have to have the lasest and greatest crap out there.
Phew, now I feel a little better.
Peace all

Funny thing is no one here actually said it bricked their phone, what the saner people have been trying to do is simply point out how this was a bold move by apple in doing something that has not been really done before.

But looking at :

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antitrust

The hat does sorta fit, its all down to personal opinion but it is intresting how this is viewed across the international devide, this view can be illustrated in the microsoft anti-trust case which won out in america but has failed numerious appleas in europe.

The next time some Apple Geek tries to tell me how his Apple computer is superior to Windows and PC's I will send him this link to show exactly why the world cannot stand Apple no matter how good their shit is.
As long as they keep this crap up they will always be the "also ran" of the PC world.

Originally posted by morguex:

---

@svtstang and sheri1983

If I ever meet you two in real life, i will buy the beers.
I'm so sick and tired of people whinning about crap, they choose to screw up in the first place.
You bought the phone, you signed the contract, now live with it.
If you choose to mod the phone and a new update screws it up, who's fault is that? YOURS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
No one forced you to buy the phone or sign the contract. PERIOD!!
But then some people just have to have the lasest and greatest crap out there.
Phew, now I feel a little better.
Peace all

---

:)

People love to blame others for their own mistakes, this thread more then proves that idea. I so agree with you it is not funny! By all means feel free to do whatever you want with your possessions since you paid cash that you worked hard for to buy the said possession, but take a reality check when something goes wrong that would have otherwise not of happened if in fact you didn't tamper with the product. I feel for all those with unmodified iphone's that experience problems due to the update, but have 0 compassion for people who screwed with the firmware. Sorry.

I don't think that devices should be linked to specific services if you have purchased them outright. In the U.S. though, most phones are not purchased outright, they are given at a steep discount in exchange for using the specific service. I don't know if the Iphone is similar since I have never had any interest in buying anything from Apple. All I can really say is, it was never hidden in any way from consumers that buying the Iphone meant having to use AT&T. If you go out and unlock it with software not approved under the contract, you have nobody to blame but yourself, even if Apple's update did intentionally make it not work. Just because some hacker put out a piece of software making the phone capable of being used on other networks doesn't make it legal for you to do so. If you don't want to use AT&T, then buy a phone from some other company. All that being said, I do think Apple should at least offer a firmware to reset it to original working order, even if the morons who modded the phone have to buy it. This whole thing just makes me glad I never thought of buying their silly phone.

Originally posted by svtstang:

---

A monopoly? You have made valid points prior to this, but this is a false statement. When did an exclusivity clause become a monopoly? The iPhone is Apple's creation, if they so wish to only allow a certain service provider to use the product then they can. By doing so they are not single handily taking over the mobile phone market. I am not phone savvy but I can assure you there are other phone models that are exclusive to individual provider's.

---

Actually , That is untrue in the US. The iPhone is Apple's creation, and they can require that you buy it from certain places, and offer incentives to do so, and anything else would be considered "Grey market" goods . However, under US Law, those iPhones intended for the US Market, including those sold thru AT&T, are also required to be sold unlocked. If AT&T requires a contract to purchase one, or to get one for $499 instead of $699 , so be it. The Law clearly states that if a customer chooses to buy a particular phone (ANY PHONE) , especially if it's only offered from one carrier, and pay both the activation and either the continuing operating fees OR pay the EARLY termination fees , then it is entirely within our rights as consumers to do so .

THAT is the relevent law regarding changing carriers on an iPhone. Apple and AT&T choose to blatently ignore this law, which went into effect in the second half of 2007.

It does not however protect owners of bricked modded phones. Bricked Modded phones are the owners problem. Personally I would dispose of it as quickly as possable, and destroy the evidence. No one has tried the legal defence of "Apple broke the law, I was trying to undo it" as a defence of breaking the anti-DRM-hacking clause of the DMCA provisions of the renewed Patriot Act. and if they have, it's been kept hush hush just like all the other Patriot Act "holdings" & trials. Even the RIAA and MPAA violaters fall under purvue of the new Patriot Act. Someone in (I think it was in) Kentucky was even arrested by the Feds on DMCA and fought extradition to Gitmo and all of a sudden the news dropped it. Go figure.

/Edit/
I forgot to add..... PrePay/ Pay as you go Phones are still allowed to be locked, for obvious reasons.

(Edited for Typos)

And, For good measure, I would expect all those $599/$699 First-day iPhone buyers, bought the iPhone expecting Apple to comply with the law and be sold unlocked, and were perfectly willing to foot the $200 AT&T early-termination fee.

Seriously, if you have $600 to shell for a gadget, you'd be just as likely to have the extra $200 to make the gadget work on any network you've chosen.

The bottom line is these people bought these phones,they signed the contract, they modded them, now they don't work, so to them I say "waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa". Go cry to someone who cares, because it sure isn't me.

Yawn, someone nudge morguex i think the needle is stuck again.

Originally posted by plazma247:

---

Yawn, someone nudge morguex i think the needle is stuck again.

---

LOL i was thinking the same thing.. Plus, if he/she doesn't care, so very much, WTf does it keep returning to this thread?

@plazma247 and Messaline

LOL, yeah I do rant on sometimes.

But when you screw with stuff and it dosen't work afterwards, don't whine about it.

Anyway Peace all

Originally posted by morguex:

---

@plazma247 and Messaline

LOL, yeah I do rant on sometimes.

But when you screw with stuff and it dosen't work afterwards, don't whine about it.

Anyway Peace all

---

LOL Right back atcha. :) and I agree about the Modded ones.

This months PC World had an article of a company that offers software for $99 that hacks the phone for most carriers but they have a disclaomer that when they updat the Iphones you need to rebuy their software to keep ahead of the updates. No thanks I have a couple of friends that have them and they hate them.....