Hi all. I was hoping for some ideas, options, etc. on building a PC. I had hoped to build a decent gaming pc using the i7 platform with my tax return this year, but I got laid off just after thanksgiving and I've been out of work for 4 months waiting for work to pickup (union situation). Anyways, I can now only afford something in the $300-$400 range, and I am hoping to lean closer to $300. I am currently running an ANCIENT Amd t-bird 1200mhz PC with 512mg of RAM and two separate HD's. I am still able to use it for basic usage, i.e. surfing the net, watching vids, but it is desperately outdated. I am currently of the belief that virtually nothing from my old machine is still useable, beyond the monitor, although I may be able to make the case work.. more on that later... My needs are: PC, Motherboard, Memory, and possibly a case. Also a video card and sound card are contingent on what goes on with the motherboard situation. I will attempt to list what I've figured so far for these parts below. These are by no means what I am looking for specifically. I AM OPEN FOR SUGGESTIONS. I really need a new PC, and I really can't go over budget. PC: As I said, originally I wanted to go with an i7 chipset, but the price has made me back off. I have concentrated my efforts on the quad core chips. I am not opposed to an AMD setup, but I am led to believe that Intel's technology is actually further ahead at this stage as opposed to in the past when you were just paying for the name. Motherboard: I am really out of my element here. I have not kept up with the trends and I am not even aware of what brands are good or not. As far as my needs goes, onboard video and sound would definitely save me $$ on my build. But I certainly want to be able to upgrade my sound and video later when money permits. I am told that SATA is the new deal with HD's, but a single IDE port would be nice so I can copy the data from my old HD's. However, this is not a necessity. I currently have a DVD burner that I can use to backup stuff, it will just take me longer. As far as my card needs, I'd like to upgrade my sound and video later as I said.. I'd also like to be able to run a t.v. card in the future. I currently have a PCI t.v. card. I am unaware if I would still be able to use this or not. If the PC does not have an onboard ethernet, I would need to use a card for this as well. Possibly room for a video card cooler? I don't know if they're still using PS/2 Mice and keyboards? This might have some relevance when discussing the # of USB ports. Also, it would be nice to have some USB ports that could be on the front of the tower if something like that is available. I do not know if game ports are still being used or are relevant or if all game controllers are USB now, but it would be nice to use a few game pads in the future as well. Memory: My computer programmer friend tells me that 2GB's of RAM is the minimum for an AVERAGE speed PC. I was looking @ newegg. and found a deal on some DDR2 RAM, 4Gigs for $38.99 (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820144073). This sounds more like what I'm looking at? I want to get the most I can afford, and it would be nice to optimize my usage of the slots on my MB. For example, when I built my last PC, I used a 512mb chip as opposed to 2, 256mb chips because it maximized what I could use.... It's my understanding that depending on the type, the DDR2 RAM is best installed in pairs. It would be nice to get the maximum GB/chip that is available if I can afford it. Case: I am absolutely adamant that I must have a full tower. My current tower is a full tower and could be used again I believe, however, it has a few problems. First off, I'm down to a single cooling fan. That's easily fixed (obviously). Second, my power supply died on me. I had a 500W originally. I am now using a freebie 250W deal that I know very little about. Lastly, I have only 3, 3.5" trays available, which means I'm limited to the # of HD's I can use. I would also like to be able to run HD coolers. My tower has 6 5.25" bays, so if I could use a HD cooler that wrapped around the 3.5" drive and went in a 5.25" bay, I'd be gold. The other issue here is last time I priced power supplies, it was cheaper just to buy a new case. I have no preference as far as it being pre-built. I assembled my last PC and I have no reason to believe I wouldn't be able to do the same with a new one. So if buying the components separately is cheaper, I'm all for it. I've priced some barebones on newegg, and it seems a good variety of their line are now these new "micro cases" that are of no use to me. As far as where I have been looking, I've been keeping my eyes out on Ebay, Pricewatch.com and Newegg. But my knowledge is severely lacking on several subjects that have kept me from making a decision. I have not kept up on the technologies and I don't want to end up with something slower than what I can afford. As far as my usage.. these days I mainly surf the internet due to the limitations of my machine. I dual boot with ubuntu and win xp. I would like to be able to do some video rendering with blender. I multi-task quite a bit as well. It would be nice to be able to run some pc games. Not necessarily anything cutting edge, but World of Warcraft, Gears of War, that sort of thing that I couldn't dream about running with my current setup. So that sums up my situation. I am looking for help and suggestions. I would like to build this as soon as possible. My computer programmer friend and I have discussed some options back and forth and it is now March already. I want to get this done. Thanks for reading through all this, and suggest away, please! Any help is appreciated. Stemin
A full tower, quad core PC that can play games for less than $400? Sorry to disappoint, but it ain't gonna happen. I'm sorry to hear about that situation, but can your budget be stretched or would you be willing to cut back on your hopes for the system?
If you read my whole thread then you know I'm open to suggestions. Here are 3 systems that I took a whole 5 seconds to find that are quad core pc's under $400. They just lack the full tower: http://search.pricewatch.com/computer_systems_no_os/core_2_quad_q6600-0.htm I don't believe it's impossible. Stemin
They can't play games. That's the important bit. A PC with a Quad core in it for $400 is doable, but you try playing games on what are not even the most recent integrated graphics chips (and even the newest ones are poor)
When you say "integrated graphics chip" you're talking about a video card built into the motherboard? I'm ok with that for now. I'd like to add a higher quality video card in the future when money permits. The real question is, is setting my sites on a quad core stupid? I mean a quad core for $400 with 2gigs of ram, is that a good deal as opposed to maybe something with a slower pc that maybe has 8 gigs of ram? And again, I'd much rather get closer to the $300 number. It's important to keep in mind that right now I'm running an old AMD 1200mhz with 512mgs of RAM. ANYTHING I get is gonna be better than what I'm using now, which is the important part. I just want to build the best system for my money, which is why I started this thread. I could also use some input on my case situation. Mathius
Yes that's right. By all means upgrade later, but you won't be able to play many games at all without a graphics card. A Quad core is realy only beneficial to those who have a high end PC in general, realistically you'll do fine with a Dual core, you won't believe how much faster even a $70 Core 2 Duo is than your Athlon K7.
I think you're stuck too much on this "playing games" part of it. If I can add a video card later that will let me play games, then it's fine. But if you think a dual core is more bang for my buck then you have a relevant argument. Stemin
i agree with sammorris when he suggests getting a core 2 duo over a quad core cpu. yes the quad-core does have its advantages, but with this tight budget, you should cut back on the quad core. games will still perform well with C2D and multi-tasking is still very doable. as for the future upgrade with the video card, you will also have to upgrade your power supply too. its crucial that you upgrade your power supply with respect to upgrading other parts if your current build has a no-name brand power supply.
Am I better off buying a new case or trying to upgrade my current one? Again to reiterate it only has one cooling fan, and the power supply is a freebie 250w or something like that. Mathius
You'll certainly need a new PSU, and if the case only fits one fan, ideally a new case as well. A Coolermaster Centurion with extra fan is only about $50 or $60, and a Corsair 400W CX is about $50. That's as low as I suggest for a case and PSU.
Now we're getting into actual specifics. That was what I was hoping for. Like I said in my original message, I haven't kept up with the technologies, so finding a good motherboard.. well I'm at the mercy of review sites right now, and I really don't know what features are optimal. Regarding my case, it has only 1 cooling fan working. It holds 3 fans at the top rear of the case. There is currently only one in there.. It's something like 3 inches X 3.25 inches. Hard to get a measurement without taking it out of the case... if my conversions are correct, that makes it something between a 76mm and 82mm... and like I said there are mounting spots for three of them up there. There is a spot for a large fan in the front bottom of the case. There is also an odd rectangular spot at the rear middle of the case to the left of the ps/2 and usb hookups. It either holds an odd custom fan, or two small square fans. I'm no expert, but I think that would be fairly sufficient airflow if I could get fans in those spots. And you're recommending a 400w or more power supply? What brands are dependable besides Corsair or CoolMaster? Stemin
My top picks for cheap PSUs are the Corsair CX, Antec EarthWatts and Nexus Value. If you can add current fans to your case, there is no reason not to keep it. Sounds like the fans you're looking for are 80mm. Typical fan sizes are: 40mm (rare outside micro systems) 60mm (uncommon, usually used in micro systems and smaller CPU coolers) 80mm (very common) 92mm (common in prebuilt systems) 120mm (common in more modern systems) 140mm (uncommon, usually only seen in large power supplies and game systems) 200,220,230,250 etc. (exclusively used in game systems)
Ok, thanks, that's a good start. I am a sheet metal worker by trade, so modifying my case is not a problem for me. I am concerned by the fact that I only have 3, 3.5" bays, but I have 6, 5.25" bays. For a while there I was running 3 HD's and they were running very hot because they were right on top of each other. Eventually one failed. The two HD's in there now still run very hot. Do they make HD coolers that fit in a 5.25" bay and allow you to slip a 3.5" drive inside them? I don't imagine I'd have much use for 5.25" bays outside of a DVD burner and a Blu-ray player down the road. I had considered modifying my case by removing most of the 5.25" bays and adding more 3.5" bays from a donor case. Dumb idea? I would like to try and get some shots of my case and post them here so you guys can give some input. I am also concerned about airflow. Obviously I will alleviate a good portion of the problem by installing new fans, but I want to be sure it's right as well. I had considered the possibility of adding an air duct to the side of the case, bringing in outside air directly to the CPU. I will try to get some pics and post them in the next few days, but in the meantime, what do you think about the drive bay situation? Do they make HD coolers that will let me use my 5.25" bays for 3.5" HD's in the event that I need more? Stemin
They sure do. My favourites are the expensive but excellent Nexus Drive-A-Way enclosures as they stop drive noise, but cheaper options are things like the Nexus DiskTwin. What you can buy for your system depends on what country you're from.
Got some pictures up on my FlickR today. Any of these pictures can be enlarged if you need to see an area better. I just have to change the link. back: http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3433/3369385564_817802f341.jpg front of PC. needs more airflow: http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3585/3369384634_704b07ca46.jpg full size side view: http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3597/3368555149_711935a5f7.jpg closeup of upper drive trays: http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3462/3369382886_0b89b6f026.jpg rats nest of power cables. i'd like to do something to alleviate that, but there isn't much room: http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3638/3369383994_2d6e2ed682.jpg another view of 5.25" bays. that's a dvd burner (IDE): http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3462/3369382886_0b89b6f026.jpg upper left of case. I have one fan mounted, there is an identical spot for another fan next to it and a diamond shaped pattern for a vent. I'm guessing for another smaller fan: http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3568/3368556239_36f21e4d6c.jpg front of the inside of the case. PC speaker, plus there used to be a plastic cage to hold a fan. Somewhere along the lines I lost the cage: http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3553/3368554035_f743e66a8b.jpg rear of case on the low level. large area of ventilation where either a set of small fans can be mounted, or a custom fan, or there is open air circulation: http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3546/3369378598_edcfaea812.jpg just another view of the side, emphasis on cards and motherboard/pc: http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3560/3369377532_61aa26fdf2.jpg one more look of the side area: http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3421/3368549591_87efb61796.jpg So what are your suggestions? Even with fans in all the locations, the airflow has to go up through the case and travel from right to left at a diagonal to pull air through the case. Should I look into adding an air duct into the side with a fan to pull outside air directly to the processor? The processor has its own fan on it, but it's just drawing air from inside the case and I have no idea what the new pc's are using these days. Any other suggestions would be great? Stemin
I guess you're the only one who posts here, Sam. I haven't had any luck tracking down any Nexus parts. I have looked at two large HD coolers I found on Amazon: http://www.amazon.com/Cooler-Master...?ie=UTF8&s=electronics&qid=1237403905&sr=1-13 http://www.amazon.com/Thermaltake-iCage-A2309-Module-12cm/dp/B000B898N6/ref=cm_cr_pr_sims_t I am a little concerned as to how much they protrude from the front of the case (in the event that I do any case mods) and how much airflow is required in the front.. (the one looks like it has a giant fan on the front, so I would have to somehow incorporate this into the front face) Could you recommend some good motherboard brands? I am completely out of the loop on which ones are good and which ones aren't. I keep hearing the names Asus, Gigabyte, and Biostar. I am told Biostar is junk. When I was last researching PC's, Abit was one of the better ones. My KT7 has lasted me 8 years now. My computer programmer buddy has also informed me that I will be limited to 4GB of RAM under my current Win XP operating system. I'm running a dual boot with Ubuntu... he says Ubuntu has a 64 bit OS available, but in order to surpass the 4GB limitation for Windows, I have to use Vista. I was looking at this barebones: http://www.tigerdirect.com/applicat...884V&cm_mmc=Email-_-Main-_-WEM1884-_-barebone But that leaves me almost no money to upgrade my full tower, so I'd be stuck with the case it comes with for a while. I am considering dropping my quest for a Core 2 or Quad Core generation processor and just going with something cheap. Tigerdirect has barebones PC's that I've seen as low as $150. I could use the extra money to upgrade my full tower and then buy a better PC when I am back on my feet. Again, anything I buy now will be an upgrade. I did find one web site that shows a case mod of the case I have: http://www.overclockers.com/index.p...rticle&id=784&catid=53:editorials&Itemid=4259 Some of the things he did with the case fans I found inspiring, although the whole Dodge look isn't for me. One thing I am leary of is buying something that's TOO old and falls under the old Celeron category of PC. I remember them running extremely slow... something to do with them using no cache. Thoughts? Stemin
The coolermaster is the better product there. I did suspect you'd have issues finding Nexus parts as they seem to only ship to european sellers. Biostar used to be a bit naff, but they've improved a considerable amount in the motherboard field. Abit were a reasonably good brand, but they have since gone bankrupt and no longer produce anything. Either XP 64-bit or Vista 64-bit (not Vista 32-bit) will support more than 4GB, but XP 64-bit has severe compatibility issues. Tiger Direct barebones are universally bad as they use pretty low quality parts and aren't even always that good value for money. That one's better than average, but still a poor start for a system (The XFX 8200 board). The even cheaper barebones will have severe reliability issues. Give us exactly which components you need to have from this list: CPU Motherboard RAM Graphics Card CD/DVD Drive Hard Drive Case Power Supply Keyboard/Mouse/Speakers Monitor and what your absolute budget limit is, and I'll try and draw up a list.
Well, for better or worse I'm the proud (I think) owner of a new quad core processor: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=300303273529&ssPageName=ADME:B:EOIBSA:US:1123 I don't know much about the quality of the motherboard, but the final bid was about the same price as the processor retails for, so I think I got a good deal and it has a 1 yr warranty on the MB, 3 years on the chip. Also, I got a call Friday, I start work at a new shop on Monday. So it looks like I will be expending my efforts on upgrading my case to better cool this thing. I've got some preliminary ideas. I found a few reviews on the thing that gave me some ideas of what fans fit the various spots and I found one site on someone who did a case mod to it, which gave me an idea to fit a 120mm in the front of the case. I still may add an intake to the side cover as well. The case is huge, so it doesn't build up heat inside as well as most cases so some heavy fan upgrading should be enough. Stemin
The Motherboard is ECS, so will last days, weeks, or maybe months, but no more than that. All ECS boards are heaps of junk. No exceptions.
