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321 Studios cranks it up a notch

news article released on: 4 October, 2002

321 Studios are about to release a new package for DVD copying. Their first product, DVD Copy Plus was intended for copying DVDs on CDs. They are now about to lauch DVD X Copy, which claims to make bit-to-bit copies of DVDs with a regular recordable DVD-drive. As we reported in April, 321 Studios asked a San Francisco court to rule on the legitimacy of their product. According to DMCA ...

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#1 04 Oct 2002 @ 16:04
The blurb is here:

http://www.dvdxcopy.com

They *say* it only takes about an hour for a full backup.

They *say* they use NO freeware or shareware; that the software is totally their own.

They *say* it's virtually a couple-of-mouse-clicks kind of program. (Insert DVD; insert DVD-R or RW. Click some buttons. Come back in an hour.)

They *say* it takes only 1 dvd-r for some movies, but may take 2. (How does that translate in terms of a broken-up movie?)

They *say* we can download it on Oct. 28.

The FAQ is here:

http://www.dvdxcopy.com/faq.htm

Based on their previous (dodgy) offering with CD-Rs, who is going to plunk down $100 US, before (maybe) the US court rules the package to be illegal?

Mostly, if it seems too good to be true, it probably is. {sigh}

-- Mike --
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#2 05 Oct 2002 @ 9:01
dejiray Suspended due non-functional email address
Hope its not as complicated as the older ones
#3 05 Oct 2002 @ 13:38
If they do a bit-by-bit copy, then they are doing nothing illegal as no decryption is taking place.

If you want to backup a DVD over 4.7GB, a double sided DVD-R would come useful, although you'll need to flip it over halfway through the movie! I remember the original double sided DVD movies that this had to be done. This was before the time of dual layer. ;-)
#4 05 Oct 2002 @ 13:54
AFAIK, bit-by-bit copy without decoding in order to remove CSS is impossible. I might be wrong, but that's my gut feeling -- this would make even the DVD-5 to DVD-R copying identical to the one that we describe in our guide for DVD-5 to DVD-R, using DVD Decrypter. Basically just ripping the full disc to the HDD and burning it back to DVD-R.

And as far as DVD-9 goes, splitting to two discs IS the method that virtually everybody uses nowadays anyway, using IFOEdit. It's cool if they really have produced a software that does this AUTOMATICALLY, but I seriously doubt that anyway due the various methods how original DVD might have been authored.

So, we're probably going to see something like this:

-tool that rips the movie to HDD and if DVD-5, burns it back to DVD-R (as in DVD Decrypter, which is free)
-if movie is DVD-9, it re-encodes the movie weakening the picture quality to fit it on one DVD-R (as in REMpeg2, TMPGEnc and CCE methods.. just wondering whose MPEG-2 encoder they're going to rip off if they use this method)
-if movie is DVD-9, it would ask the splitting point, showing IFO information that 99.9999% of the users don't understand and asking to select splitting point and would use two DVD-Rs (as in common IFOEdit method)

Ah well, we'll see.

Petteri Pyyny (pyyny@twitter)
Webmaster
http://AfterDawn.com/
#5 06 Oct 2002 @ 0:51
One-click (or 2 or 3 ...) dvd backing-up doesn't seem technically possible despite their positive assurances to the contrary. Those who have been laboriuosly encoding/ripping/burning video for years (us)pretty well know it's impossible.

They make a pretty big deal about warning us of copyright infringement (and well they should with a pending lawsuit staring at them), so I don't know if they'll 'let' us remove the FBI warnings or not, but did you also notice? In order to help protect themselves, their software will also be inserting an additional _mandatory_ warning even in *front* of the usual FBI one! (Non-defeatable, I would assume; oh joy). So CSS will be in full use. They won't be trying to defeat or remove it.

For those of us who probably know better, they really really really need to provide a lot more product info than they do. A detailed FAQ is not something they offer. They don't have to give any trade (software) secrets away, but if their package is to gain any legitamacy or trust among knowledgeable users, they really need to explain HOW their software works. What is does, and how it does it.

(Too much to ask, I know). I wouldn't buy it today, that's for sure. They *say* they're working on a demo version. *That'll* be a telling story.

-- Mike --
#6 06 Oct 2002 @ 6:24
Your skepticism is understandable. However…

DVDXCOPY DOES work!
DVDXCOPY DOES NOT include any freeware or shareware and is completely proprietary and is the result of 8 months of intensive, internal development
DVDXCOPY will be available for download on or before Oct 28, 2002
DVDXCOPY will be available in a demo/time limited format which will burn 15 minutes of video and audio. You will need to use a DVD/RW so as not to end up with a DVD/R coaster for the demo
DVDXCOPY DOES NOT use DeCSS
DVDXCOPY DOES NOT re-encode or compress video in any way
DVDXCOPY technology IS patentable and is currently underway
THIS HASN'T BEEN EASY, but the results are unbelievable and well worth it!
DVDXCOPY WILL be available in retail in November. Retail orders have already been received that will ship by the end of October, 2002.
Burning DVD to DVDR has been simple, but restructuring Video pointers in IFO and VOB files has not. Proper splitting and common sense behavior have proven to be a most difficult undertaking and are at the core technology of our product

New legislation that would completely eliminate all cloud of illegality has been introduced within the last 3 days by Congressman Rick Boucher. Read all about it at

http://www.house.gov/boucher/internet.htm

This is the DMCRA (Digital Millennium Consumer Rights Act) of which we are a staunch supporter and have been in contact with the Congressmen’s office before this bill was introduced.

Any one of you that post here can receive a FREE PRE-RELEASE BETA by emailing me at Robert@321studios.com This will be available around Oct 16th.

Also, email me with any more questions and I’ll be glad to answer them. Although, DvdCopyPlus has been very popular, I’ve never been completely satisfied with the end product. But…DVDXCOPY delivers on every level.

Cheers!


#7 06 Oct 2002 @ 7:15
Also, I must point out the three technology initiatives we incorporate to discourage piracy and encourage fair use only. These are not unbreakable (neither is CSS) but to the extent that we are trying to reach a fair compromise and a sense of balance with the copyright laws, DVDXCOPY will include the following three anti-piracy measures:

1. Disclaimer in front of FBI warning indicating this is a backup/archival copy and is not to be sold or redistributed

2. Anti-copying technology using our software that will prevent a copy of a copy

3. Electronic watermark embedded in video stream. As long as the product is used for its intended purpose there will be no knowledge gained of legitimate copying. However, if a video stream is released into piracy mainstreams, the license of the DVDXCOPY product can be determined from this watermark and potentially, the original infringer could be identified. At the very least, the license will be deactivated for the DVDXCOPY product which will disable the product.

Again, these measures are not hack-proof, but neither is a door lock. It is important though to demonstrate to the community at large that we are willing to be reasonable so long as fair use is acknowledged and protected.

Cheers!

#8 06 Oct 2002 @ 8:13
CORRECTION:

Pursuant to my first post, I mistyped and wrote Digital Millenium Consumer Rights Act, when in fact, it is the Digital Media Consumer Rights Act (DMCRA).


#9 06 Oct 2002 @ 11:34
Thank you very much for correcting my misbeliefs with facts. =) I tried gathering facts before posting the news article, but had to rely on our old news item for reference because I was unable to access your site (or any other site for that matter) at the time of posting.

I'm very exited about the software, as is everyone here at AfterDawn.com, I'm sure! Let's hope all goes well, and that you'll be able to release the software without delays and problems.


Jari Ketola
Administrator
http://www.AfterDawn.com
#10 07 Oct 2002 @ 16:44
Robert, I'd just to add, *thank you* for responding to my questions and skepticisms. Many people's assumptions, whether right or wrong, are often based on lack of information, which is not necessarily their fault when little or no information is available. I tend to be a little cynical when given so many wonderful claims -- one sees that every day, everywhere; when it comes to new software, we're *bombarded* with it.

You've given more detailed, important, necessary, (and positive!) information in your answers above, than in toto on your own website.
I'm impressed with your answers too.

I don't yet have a dvd burner, but it is this kind of software, carefully explained, that will probably convince me to get one sooner rather than later. For now, I will 'sit on the fence' a bit and see how other users fare with your software package. I *do* wish you resounding success!

Thanks too, for choosing A/D to help us sort it all out. According to Petteri/dRD (webmaster), this site is getting something like 1,000,000 hits+ per month, and you can just bet, a lot of those visitors are burning dvds these days. If your package can help simplify the enormous complexity of this task, and give good results, you deserve to WIN.

I'll be able to ask more informed questions after I get my burner.

Best Regards,
Mike Bennett
#11 07 Oct 2002 @ 17:55
Thanks Mike! Appreciate your confidence, even if you are still sitting on the fence. :) Email me and I'll add you to the list for the beta version, so you can have it to play with even if you just get a burner for 14 days from Best Buy! ;)

Just so you know, your beta version will be upgradeable to a full featured version at no cost when it is released. And as an added thank you for helping us test this product, we'll send you five, usable once, activation codes to give to your friends so they can have a free copy when it is finally released too.

Cheers!

#12 07 Oct 2002 @ 23:49
Private message just sent, Robert. I hope it goes through, because my regular, normal emails are a bit screwed up these days. (Explained in message).

Thanks,

-- Klingy --
#13 08 Oct 2002 @ 5:27
I'm receiving a lot of requests for the BETA. Unfortunately, due to spam problems with our affiliates, some of our email is blocked. We are working to resolve this problem.

If you have requested a BETA and have NOT received a response from me, try sending your request from a HotMail account and I will respond.

Unless I can send you an email without it bouncing back as undelivered, I cannot add you to the list.

Cheers!

#14 08 Oct 2002 @ 8:45
ABCman Suspended due non-functional email address
I have tried the original 321 software and liked it although it was a little hard to use. I look forward trying the beta. As far as the watermarking... I dont have a problem with that and I dont think the

As for the new legistation I have ties with some of the Reps. from my state and will be calling them to gain their support for the bill.

I wish your company the best of luck in court! Thank God someone will stand up to our these big companies buying and selling our rights!!!!
#15 08 Oct 2002 @ 19:49
Robert, what I meant to say, was that I sent a private message to you via _this_forum. (There is a send_private_message link under your user-name). I don't know whether this means that you will receive an email directly, in the usual fashion, or that the message is only available to you via this website. (???)

Anyway, did you receive private message?

Thanks, Mike.

#16 09 Oct 2002 @ 1:26
To clarify a little bit, we had some problems with replying to private messages yesterday, about 10 users were trying to reply to their PMs during this time until we found the bug and fixed it.

But yes, the private message sends a reminder to the receiver to visit the specific URL to check his/her private message inbox at our site. Should work as long as the user's email address is valid (but then again, you can't register your account if it's not valid).

Petteri Pyyny (pyyny@twitter)
Webmaster
http://AfterDawn.com/
#17 09 Oct 2002 @ 3:52
It seems to be working ok now. I have sent and received PMs, and just now received notice of same in my (usual) email inbox.

:)

-- Mike --
#18 09 Oct 2002 @ 10:36
VCDjunkie Suspended due non-functional email address
Robert, if your offer still stands, I would also love to be a "beta tester" for your software as I myself have been sitting on that fence.. if your software proves to be as good as you claim, and with your confidence it seems to be so, I may just keep that DVD burner longer than 14 days !!!

Cheers! ;-)
#19 09 Oct 2002 @ 13:10
MyNameIs Suspended account
Once again 321 Studios has devloped crap software. DO NOT BUY THIS ! IT DOES NOT WORK ! They call themselves Pilgrims of Free Speech but are ruthless criminals. I bought DVD X COPY and it did not do anything on 3 different computer systems. DO NOT DO NOT BY another one of their crap software!

321SellsCrapSoftware.Com
#20 09 Oct 2002 @ 13:14
I don't know where this last post came from, but since we haven't even shipped the beta yet, let alone the full version, I have to say this person has no idea what he is talking about. We are accepting PRE-ORDERS on our website at a substantial discount, but will not release it to the public till October 28, 2002. So I assume this is a rogue post.

We'll let our software do the talking!

Cheers!

#21 09 Oct 2002 @ 14:26
rhmoore: True, accusations of software's capabilities that isn't even launched yet, are kinda pointless. But you must admit that your previous software (and to add the pain of our inboxes, about 3 gazillion other similiar packages from other vendors) have created a _REALLY_ bad image for commercial DVD ripping packages by ripping off freeware software authors and such.

I'm anyway optimist and specially since you decided to comment and clarify things up, it has put some confidence, at least in my eyes, back to your company and I'm anxiously waiting to see your upcoming product in near future.

One thing what I seriously recommend to you in future is that you cut all the dirty details that surround the commercial DVD ripping scene on your part. Few steps to achieve this:

-get rid of your in-house-run affiliate program and use reputable affiliate manager, such as CJ -- I know they cost $$, but they give you much more credibility AND most importantly they will boot automatically all a**holes who promote affiliate links by spamming and other illegal/semi-illegal means.

-use clear website, get rid of all "porn-y" flashy animation crap, too annoying popups, excess advertisement wording (if I visit a site that sells something and uses those hyper-annoying chicks showing software discs and use wording familiar from day-time 1-800-CHEAP-LAWYER advertisements, I leave the site. immediately.), setup a GOOD and FAST customer service, setup a well-moderated discussion forum to help people with your software, show your company's exact contact details clearly on your site and tell people what EXACTLY the software DOES and HOW it does it AND what user needs and can do with the resulting copy. Clearly.

...just some basic stuff I've learned by working _way_ too many years in this biz. Credibility is damn easy to lose, but takes years to get it back.

Petteri Pyyny (pyyny@twitter)
Webmaster
http://AfterDawn.com/
#22 09 Oct 2002 @ 20:31
dRD: Thanks for the confidence and insight. After reading your two suggestions, I have to make a few things clear.

#1: There are plenty of scam outfits that have tried to mimic our success, and to the extent you mention "porn-y" flashy animation crap and scantily clad women advertising in this space, I know to whom you refer, and it is not us.

The only URL's we have ever offered our product is 321studio.com, 321studios.com, copymydvd.com and copysuite.com. All other URL's known or unknown to us do not represent us, even if they appear to look like us. They are cheap rip-offs and imitations.

#2: With respect to affiliates: Our affiliate base has been whittled back from 15,000 to around 600 primarily because of affiliate spam. We continue to take action against those who spam our product, but it has been a tough road. It seems for everyone we find and terminate there are two more to take their place. But we keep persevering.

Also, we have had many others fraud spam our web site in an attempt to take us down and make us look bad. It's exasperating to have to defend yourself for something you had no part in, but it seems to be par for the course and in some measure, the price of our success.

Anyway, we've looked into CJ and though they are more expensive, we would gladly use them if we were assured that they handled the spam problem better than we could. So far, we remain unconvinced, but on your advice, we'll look into them again.

Also, our contact page contains, and has always contained, our address, phone number and fax number. We answer our phones live in tech support, provide online support and maintain an online knowledge base for our customers. That is probably why our return rate is less than 3% on average. We stand behind our product with solid customer service and technical support.

Thanks for your insightful comments.

Cheers!
This message has been edited since its posting. Latest edit was made on 09 Oct 2002 @ 20:38

#23 10 Oct 2002 @ 4:51
Drd and everyone else. This site is really great and I'm glad there's something like this out here. You guys have made my education at backing up relatively headache free(except 1st few days). I've learned a lot since getting my burner, and keep learning everyday. I was VERY skeptical about the software, via the post in the message board, but reading this board I'm a lit'l bit more relaxed. Robert, your candid responses and willingness to 'prove' your product has eased some of my doubts.
I'm interested in trying out the software myself since anything is easier than the current way of making backup's. Needless to say I've been unsuccessful in getting any DVD9's working using the split process with anything I do, so I'm willing to try 'almost' anything at this point to put my $1100 investment to use. But spending more $$$ and getting ripped off wouldn't be cool either.
Anyway, at work and I'm rambling, but I look forward to trying it out, you'll get an email from me too! I have several friends and co-workers waiting on my success b4 they go out and get a burner, but I'm still a 'newbie' at all of this. If anybody can take a look at my playback issues thread and offer any insight I'd appreciate it *smile*
#24 10 Oct 2002 @ 6:09
tumbar Account closed as per user's own request
Robert,

If your company has created software to address these sometimes complex and sometimes mundane processes, all I can say it "Hat's off" to the 321Studio.Com Team.

Good Luck!
#25 10 Oct 2002 @ 6:54
We can all try the beta when it arrives, and make a more informed judgement then. Frankly, I *like* the idea of not having to sit through h-o-u-r-s of compressing/encoding.

-- Mike --
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