The New AMD Building Thread

I guess everyone is wondering why I'm quoting myself? Because I would like to explain in the simplest of terms what all this "Jiberish" you just read means! It means that AMD's Architecture in the 65nm Barcelona chips is better than Intel's Architecture in the C2D! Don't fall over, but it's better than the Architecture in Core i7 too! Part of the answer lies here.

The important words here are "45-nm high-K metal gate transistors" or "HKMG" Transistors. If you've read the article it's considered to be Intel's strongest point and that leaves AMD far behind as their Chip lacks these Transistors, and are slower clock for clock because of it.

Part of all the uproar when it was reported that the Phenom II had hit 6GHz had to do with the lack of those transistors. With all the yelling about 6.0GHz with the Phenom II being BS, specifically pointing their fingers at the lack of HKMG transistors as the main reason it couldn't be true! While all this denial wss going on, Few had stopped to consider the most important clue to the whole scheme of things, and that's the fact that the Intel's Architecture was unable to allow them to get to 45nm without HKMG transistors, while in fact, both Panasonic (the first 45nm chip) and AMD were able to accomplish just that!

AMD (read, Ati) and IBM have been working closely together to develop their own HKMG Transistors to be integrated into AMD's chips, in mid 09. These will require far less power usage to enable than the Intel chips because of AMD's superior Architecture. If you think 6.0GHz raised a fuss, wait until it becomes 7 GHz or more. Perhaps even as high 7.5 GHz! The bandwidth alone should be staggering!

Cost is also going to play a big part in all of this as well. Consider this! You will need a very expensive socket 1333 MB, and an expensive Chip just to match the performance of the current Q9550 and up, while AMD is doing all of this in Socket AM2, AM2+ and AM3 using the same 940 pin socket, which is pin for pin the same as the 65nm Barcelona! Imagine the impact all of this will have on your wallet!

It's the Server market, that is both AMD and Intel's bread and butter! The enthusiasts like us are in the minority here! With the servers, it will be the ability to drop a Phenom II into existing motherboards, or even with a new AM3 motherboard for a much lower cost. Picture the cost savings to a company like Google who have huge rooms full of thousands of servers. Rooms the size of football fields and you get the general idea! We are talking huge sums of money here, not to mention the huge savings all these big companies will enjoy, using much less power.

With the introduction of the 780G and the 790GX chipsets, giving a performance boost of approximately 15% over existing AM2 motherboards with the same CPU, the future suddenly looks very bright for AMD. Even brighter for us, and that's what counts to me! Remember also that Intel used every trick in the book to get to where they are with Core i7. It's stretched to the limit, and nothing short of new Architecture design is going to change that, and that will take considerable time, another big plus for us all around!

For those of you who do not know me, I'm 64 years old and have been around electronics since 1952, (yes, since age 7) when an Electronics store opened in our town! I practically lived there! I started my formal training in electronics at age 13 in 1957, thanks to a friend of mine's father having an Audio visual business. Before that he worked as an Electronics Tech for NBC and then RCA for 20 years. He taught me everything he knew, and since I already had acquired the basics on my own, I was a quick learner, I did pretty well with electronics. I coined the phrase "Consumer Electronics" in 1963 to try and promote some very good Japanese electronics that nobody wanted. Before that just about anything electronic that had came from Japan was considered (and rightfully so) sub standard junk, and were a very hard sell for us because of their past poor reputation. I hung a large sign that simply said Consumer Electronics on the front of our Booth, and business picked up considerably because people wanted to know what the heck "Consumer Electronics" was! By the end of the this particular "Home Show" others that were not doing too well, copied my sign and did the same thing. The show turned out to be a huge success for us, and we sold a lot of electronics to retailers.

For the past 40 years I have worked in the Medical and Dental repair field and am certified to repair X-Ray equipment, Cat Scans, Electron Microscopes and all the rest of the millions of dollars worth of high tech diagnostic equipment, some using as many as 32 Microprocessors, 16 to a motherboard. It's amazing the level of tech you can buy, when money is no object! I've been to 4 Continents and have literally worked all over the world. I've been pretty much retired for the last couple of years for health reasons, although I still do some work in the Dental field once in a while for friends. I've been involved with computers since 1984. I lost interest in them for a few years in early 2001 and didn't even own one again until 2003. It's all kind of grown from there. LOL!!

Best Regards,
Russ

 

Interesting read, Russ. To be frank, I think i7 is a bit of a last gasp for Intel's Core architecture. It just seems to me like they've put back all of the stuff they threw at the P4s to get their speed "up", and much like before, some gains, some losses. Overall, AMD's R&D impresses me far more than Intel's, and always has done, even during the Windsor and Barcelona duldrums. The very fact that there are several things they can do that Intel can't suggests to me it is only a matter of time before they take an upper hand, and as actual catalysts for change, I think they're the people to look at.

 

i dunno sam, im impressed with i7. very OCable, and powerfull. its not that power hungry aswell.

 

130W TDP vs 95, a -5 to +15% increase in games performance per clock speed (yes, video encoders have more to gain, but that's not something I do, and I speak for a lot of people here), double the cost for the CPU alone, triple it for the other components. It can overclock as well as it likes, I'm sorry, I'm just not that impressed with it as a product.

 

well in most things a 920 will beat or be on par with a qx9770. it doesnt cost too much, infact its around a Q9550. will hit 4GHz on air. and has in intergrated memory controller, which is the bulk of the NB, so to get the TDP as low as they have is pretty good.

 

I won't say too much further since this is the AMD thread, but that performance comparison is only valid for arithmetic/compression results, as I mentioned, not something I'm too into. In most games the i7 920 is roughly equal to a Q9450 (Crysis Warhead, Half Life 2 Episode Two) or a Q6700 (Far Cry 2). Only in UT3 does the i7 920 match a QX9770, and in this instance, the CPU cap is so high it's irrelevant.

Outside the gaming world though, i7 is certainly the processor to have for intensive applications, DVD encodes, CPU rendering etc. What is interesting, however, is that in Photoshop, an E8500 can match the 920.

 

I quite agree with you Shaff, and I don't mind the Intel talk in this instance because it's all about the differences in the tech. Sam is right! Intel has wrung just about everything it can get out of the Architecture to the point that there's nothing more to do to improve it. Chipsets, as they refine them will improve the performance of the Core i7 to a degree, but they currently are up against a wall with nowhere to go while the Architecture of the Barcelona still has room to improve. They can lower the price to be more competitive, but AMD's are still going to cost a good bit less in power consumption and much less in price. Even if the Phenom II turns out to be the slower chip, it won't be by very much. Not having to change platforms makes it a huge price difference, and makes it way more attractive for both servers and consumers alike.

Both AMD and Intel concentrated on the server market first, before the consumer product, as I said they would do well over a year ago. The fact remains that we the enthusiast, will reap all the benefits from all of this technology. Good Stuff, really! AMD has just built a better mousetrap! LOL!!

The fact that the present Phenom scales so well, and with the addition of AMD/IBM's lower wattage HKMG Transistors in mid 09 will scale even better after it's integrated into the Phenom II, bodes very well for the enthusiast and overclocking. I know a lot of people were not happy with the performance of the Barcelona and roundly criticized AMD for sticking with it. C2D just caught AMD with their pants down! LOL!! Looks very much like AMD knew exactly what they were doing all along, to my eyes! Like I said, "Good Stuff"! For the life of me I can't understand why they don't call it "Phoenix", what with AMD rising from the ashes! LOL!! Here's a new Logo for them as it would be a great time to truly put together AMD and Ati as one.



Best Regards,
Russ

 

That is an excellent way of putting it. For the general gains, the i7 920 is certainly a decent value chip on its own, but the minimum spend of £350 on the motherboard and RAM in order to get more than 3GB is very prohibitive, when you consider that 4GB of reasonably good RAM and an overclockable motherboard for Socket 775 can be had for just £110, less than a third of that figure, and it's probably even better for AMDs.

 

Yup! AMD is sitting there showing K-Q-J-10 of Spades, and the Ace of Spades is in the hole! LOL!! I think a lot of peoples wishes are about to come true!

Russ

 

Time to bump this thread! I got a last minute Christmas build request from a friend and her kids. Strictly internet and homework, but I told her that it would be good enough that she wont be looking for a new one in a year or two. I know I have an extremely inexpensive case, but she wants the build around $300 and its at $320 after rebates and shes seen the case's webpage and is happy with it.

Case- http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811147127
mobo- http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813128360
PSU- http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817139008
CPU- http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819103289
RAM- http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820145043
HDD- http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822152052
ODD- http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16827106228
CPU fan/heatsink- http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835186019

Any thoughts or opinions? I think I need to check that the PSU will fit in the case since its microATX? I wonder about fan/heatsink have clearance? I will have to check in a few hours after my class is over. If anyone can ease my fears its appreciated. I am going to order ASAP, at least 5 or 6 hours after this post, I know theonejrs will read this before then (HELLO!!!), anyone else chime in too all opinions welcome.

Looks like in the 3 hours since I made this list my choice of HDD is out of stock, maybe I'll just get a smaller one at half the price and save money there since they are still using their "Windows ME Dell machine" Its doubtful they will need 500GB space.

 

I have never seen that PSU before, well spotted. Looks like it should be good. Let's face it, that's a superb system compared to anything with Me on it (ugh) - maybe this drive?
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822136113

 

Thanks for your opinion SAM, I dont suppose you read it after my edit (in italics)? That is my true concern with this parts list.

 

The only change I would make is the ODD. The popular choice currently is this. http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16827118011 Rob and GM swear by them.

Everything else looks good. Should be a very nice machine! Good luck with it.

Best Regards,
Russ

 

Deadrum33 here are some things to look at.

HDD's - I like the Samsung 500 for $59.99

PSU's to consider both have FREE shipping and rebates and about the same price too.

You might consider one of these mobo's as well. About $10 less and just as good if you ask me. link

This Rosewill is about the same price with FREE shipping.

These are just ideas and hopefully they help you out.

...gm

add: Yeh Russ is right and besides it saves you a couple more BUCKS. The 20A4P is a good little ODD too. I have it as well. heheehe.

 

Both the case you chose and the one Gm posted will fit your, and any normal ATX power supply.

 

With this MB what you lose over the GigaByte is DVI output and E-Sata. Also no Optical S/PDIF. For the $8 difference I would stick with the Gigabyte board. They're both good motherboards though.

Best Regards,
Russ

 

@Russ,
It's difficult to NOT buy the GB with the couple of extra features for the $8 or so difference. Just trying to save a few greenBACKS and didn't think the e-SATA or other features would be that important for this specific build.

....gm

 

Given its inability to produce surround sound, I'm less than fussed about Optical S/PDIF, but DVI is certainly nice, eSATA I find to be a rather unreliable interface, but hey, it's extra features...

 

That's strange because I have no problem with Optical S/PDIF and surround sound other than I was using the wrong inputs on my Surround sound Receiver. once I selected Video instead of DVD on the unit, it worked perfectly. Sometimes it's a bit disconcerting when someone comes up behind you in a movie though. Opps, I guess that means it must be working! LOL!! Why sony made it that way I'll never know, but the Optical doesn't even show up on the display on mine using the DVD setting. As soon as you click Video, it's there! One of the many simple little things not found in any of the 35 pages in the Manual.

Best Regards,
Russ

 

I'll be more specific, you can use DTS over it, when you send it as raw PCM (since encoded S/PDIF can never be in anything other than Stereo) but this process is very unstable, the only output from the PC must be the video you're playing. If your system tries to produce another noise - download complete, messenger sign in, whatever it is, it breaks the datastream and produces no audio until the stream is re-activated by pausing/unpausing. For someone like me that's too much of an annoyance to be worth using, analog surround sound has to suffice, it's far less convincing, which is a shame, but there's not much I think I can do about it.