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Audio CD burning problem

Discussion in 'Audio' started by darrask, Dec 5, 2011.

  1. darrask

    darrask Member

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    Hi all,
    I have burnt several audio CDs using CDburnerXP and "Think Xtra CD-Rs". Twice the same songs in a different order, burned at 4x speed.

    They play back fine on the computer they were burned on, and the source WAV files play back perfectly as well. However, when I put them in my older Philips CD player (which plays back commercial CDs without fail), the first third of the CD plays back wrong: I hear crackling noise on the tracks, the kind of noise you hear with a wrongly tuned radio.

    Now I wonder where the problem might come from, before I start wasting all my CDs in experiments, do you have an idea?

    If it might be the software, it's an easy fix. Or does it have anything to do with ASPI vs. SPTI? Or is it my CD-R brand? Or is it my burner?

    I'm sure my problem is typical for many users but it is quite difficult to find a matching topic on the web.
    thank you in advance.
     
  2. Mez

    Mez Active member

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    I would suspect the burner app as the least painful way to fix the problem. Normally, the order of the various audio CD play problems are: the player, the burner, the burn app, the media. In your case the burn app might be the biggest problem. In either case, the burn app is what you fix first.

    Burn using Media Monkey. I suggest using the link provided in the top sticky in this forum because that link provides a no strings attached free version. In 8 yrs there has never been a Media Monkey burn problem posted in this forum vs the thousands of complaints about other burn apps.

    Please post whether this fixed the problem or not.

    Burned disks are harder to read than pressed disks.
     
  3. darrask

    darrask Member

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    Thank you Mez!
    I tried Media Monkey, I have the same problem, so I'll try other CDs one day, the other options are too difficult to implement.
     
  4. Mez

    Mez Active member

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    I hear you on that one. For audio CDs, media is not much of a factor.

    Try this, install the trial version of dbPowerAmp convert the waves to the highest quality LAME or Helix VBR mp3s and try to burn them with MM. I suggest you install all the codex you might need during the trial period. The ripper works after the trial as will the converter if you access it through file explorer. I would also rip the most rare CDs you have as it uses the most extensive tag info database during that period. After that you can use freedb which is not nearly as extensive or as accurate.

    When you burn waves they are still converted to CDAs. MM relies on some windows files to make conversions. It is possible there is a mismatch in the versions of all the different dlls used to do the conversion. mp3s use a different set of dlls and for some reason may be more apt to be in sync. For this reason, burning quality mp3s are the least likely to produce artifacts. Extreme VBR mp3s exceed all but the finest audio equipment and well exceed adult human hearing range.

    Please post your results. There is one last step you could try before a hardware change. I am now guessing hardware is not the issue.
     
  5. darrask

    darrask Member

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    Actually, I now suspect my burner to be the problem, as it often caused me trouble.

    With my first try with CDBurner XP, only the mp3 files that had been converted to CDAs by the software had audible problems.

    So for my second try, I converted all files, OGGs and MP3s, to WAV. The result was then that independently of the source format, all songs before the 10th track had the sound quality issue.

    I'll try your suggestion though, but I'm running out of CDs...
     
    Last edited: Dec 9, 2011
  6. Mez

    Mez Active member

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    I do suspect your problem is artifacts. Burning CDAs are the most likely to produce artifacts with most burn apps and mp3 the least. To minimize that possibility, I would use the best converter with the best codex.

    The last try would be to purchase a year's subscription to Reference dbPowerAmp. That comes with a burn app. If that doesn't work then you could complain to them. They are the experts. I don't think it will come to that. dbPowerAmp provides and only uses its own files & DLLs. I will be surprised if you have trouble with it.

    Did you say the burned CD plays fine in the computer just not in the player? If so burn at the slowest rate. You can get away with that with audio CDs. With DVDs you can burn too slow because the pits get so big they over lap but the tracks are bigger in the CD.
     
  7. darrask

    darrask Member

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    Yes, the CD plays fine in the computer.
    I use LAME codecs for my MP3s anyway.

    Alright, but I precisely want to burn audio CDs, so I don't get why you'd recommend to burn mp3s.

    I don't get either why I should convert my waves to MP3 again, because the source is in mp3 format and they will be converted to CDA anyway for the burn.

    PS: Isn't CDA a shortcut to the WAV file on the audio CD? That's why I converted all files to waves in my second try.

    After my first try, precisely the mp3s were "corrupted". Isn't there another freeware that uses its own DLLs for conversion to CDA? Or could I theoretically replace my windows DLLs with others? I have a set of fine encoder DLLs (LAME mp3, aoTuv OGG Vorbis).
     
  8. Mez

    Mez Active member

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    I thought I explained myself. The problem is 1 of 2 possibilities; 1)the player really can't play burned disks well, 2) the burn process is producing artifacts. Changing the process and upgrading the process using the finest tools available might fix the artifact problem.

    We get the most artifact complaints concerning the burning of CDAs, next other lossless. I rarely, if ever (I do not remember ever seeing an artifact complaint concerning the burning of mp3s in 8 yrs) see a complaint about artifacts produced from any MP3.

    I do not pretend to understand how the artifacts are produced. I know if I cut a lossless album into tracks then convert to lossy I often get terrible artifacts if I didn't rip the album myself. If I convert the album to lossy then cut it into tracks I do not, even though, I used all the same tools. What you are experiencing may be similar. Did you rip the wave files? If you got them from someone else you may not be able to solve the problem. I have never seen a problem if I ripped then burned the files back to disk.

    If the problem goes away with mp3s then at least you know what the problem is. Would you rather wait to upgrade all your hardware to find that didn't fix the problem?
     
    Last edited: Dec 10, 2011
  9. darrask

    darrask Member

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    No, I won't upgrade any hardware, don't worry. I'm just trying to burn audio CDs.

    I have to burn CDA because my CD player only plays CDA, not mp3.

    The first CD was burned from MP3s and OGGs. The WAVs I used for burning the second CD were converted from the same ripped MP3s and OGGs, so I just don't understand why you proposed to convert them back to mp3.

    Anyway I'll do some tests with different filetypes and burn them to CDs. If there is no effect of the file format and it is still only the first 10 tracks, then I'll guess that it is burner or player related, though the player reads other CDs well.

    By the way I always burn at the lowest possible speed, which is 4x for me.
     
  10. Mez

    Mez Active member

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    Media Monkey will allow a 2X burn.
     
  11. darrask

    darrask Member

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    No, it didn't, the possible burning speeds depend on your burner.
     
  12. Mez

    Mez Active member

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    Yes and no. Burners will burn at any slow speed but often the bottom slow speed is usually calculated by the media & burner's fastest speed. I have an older version of MM and that may be the difference or maybe it is my burner or media.

    Sorry I couldn't help. I would:
    Install dbPowerAmp - It uses a matched set of dlls for everything rip, convert,burn). Mismatches can cause artifacts. That burn app is the only one that supplies all the needed files, the rest rely on other sources for the files.

    When you buy CDs buy on sale a lot of 50 or 100. There isn't all that much price difference between 10 and 100. Try to buy the slowest not the fastest.

    There is a possibility your problem could be media since the 'bad' files are in the same place.
     

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