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Audio question!

Discussion in 'DVDR' started by sadsac, Feb 22, 2005.

  1. sadsac

    sadsac Guest

    Of the ones I checked with Shrink, the DTS takes up about twice the space as regular 5.1.

    If you keep both, the compression of the video files changes greatly. Just by unchecking the DTS file, the compression level can vary by as much at 10-20% or more. That's a pretty big difference.

    I'm not arguing that keeping the DTS alone doesn't make that much difference in compression, but if you leave 5.1 and DTS, the difference is huge. And lacking a DTS receiver, I would have to keep both 5.1 and DTS. I was looking at DTS as a future upgrade and I would like to keep the DTS track on disk, but I can't if I want good quality video. That's why I was asking if the DTS track sound quality was that much better than the normal 5.1 track.

    Here's a great example. "Master and Commander" has both DTS and 5.1. I checked the copy I bought just as a test to see what difference it made.

    The 5.1 track was 460MB.
    The DTS track was 778MB.
    I unchecked all other audio except what I'm listing below, kept the English subtitles, and left all video, menus, and special features as "automatic compression".

    Keeping only the 5.1 track compressed the main movie to 67.5% of original.

    Keeping only the DTS track compressed the main movie to 61.9% of orignial. (5.4% more compression than 5.1 alone)

    Keeping both 5.1 and DTS compressed the main movie to a shoddy 53.9% of orignial. (13.6% more compression than 5.1 alone)

    That's a pretty large difference in compression.

    I think I've decided to only keep the 5.1 tracks and leave off the 2 channel and DTS audio tracks. That seems to work well for me. 5.1 is apparently more universal than DTS. If I buy a DTS receiver, I'll just use the original disks I bought. I like to take copies on the road when I travel so I don't ruin my originals.
     
  2. brobear

    brobear Guest

    I was looking at a Sony Dolby-DTS entertainment center this morning. I really don't see that much difference in the 2 formats. I guess DTS with the difference in bit rate would be better if one has ears sharp enough to catch it. I'm wondering how many people really could. I've recorded most of the movies I have with the 5.1 surround sound. I'm happy with it and it's still the industry standard.

    I was talking about the difference in compression due to audio tracks not being that big. As you mentioned the combination of everything, it does get bigger. If you want to lower the compression, you're better off editing out the extras. You'll save more space that way than the few percent you'll change with the audio. The combination of cut audio and the extras really lower the compression.
     
  3. brobear

    brobear Guest

    Sadsac,
    You really should check out those software programs I was talking about, especially the Rebuilder with CCE.
     
  4. gerard514

    gerard514 Regular member

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    WHERE am i able to find the software rebuilder with cce and also is this program better than shrink and decryptor?

    Thanks for the help.
     
  5. brobear

    brobear Guest

    You still need Decrypter to rip the files for RB/CCE. You'll also have to have a burner. This setup only encodes.

    Rebuilder can be found here at AD in the software download section. With a donation, one can get the early releases from the author, jdobbs. Rebuilder is a beta in progress, but it is working great now and it can be tested with the CCE SP trial (logo/watermark recorded on video). There are several threads here at AD on Rebuilder and there is a guide for setting it up as well as an auto loader at http://www.dvdrebuilder.com .
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 24, 2005
  6. forkndave

    forkndave Member

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    I'll have to say that I can tell the difference in DTS and AC3 5.1 audio. It's not a great difference, but I can tell it with my system. I generally don't keep the DTS due to the size, though. I would never record a DVD with DTS only since you wouldn't have any sound on most DVD players. I think that many DVD players actually will decode DTS, but unless you have a surround system with a digital input you'll never hear it. I've got a DVD recorder that I've got my cable box connected to and I just hooked up an optical cable to my A/V system and I get everything including TV in surround sound. The A/V system somehow converts 2 channel to 5.1. It sounds good anyhow.
     
  7. sadsac

    sadsac Guest

    Can someone please answer the previous question in reference to 2 channel audio. I've yet to get a difinitive answer.

    Why do some movies have 3 or 4 versions of 2 channel English audio. I'm not talking about one version of English, one version of Spanish, one version of commentary audio.......I noticed several movies containing one commentary track, one Spanish track, one French track, then 5.1, DTS, and oddly, 3 or 4 versions of 2 channel English audio.

    Why all the different tracks. The next time I notice it, I'll post the movie. I may even go through my originals and see if I can find one.

    It doesn't make sense since that takes up tons of space. I'm scared to uncheck all of them because it might mess up the backup. I really don't like burning coasters.

    HELP
     
  8. bbmayo

    bbmayo Active member

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    Them other 2 channel englisk tracks are normally directors comment's or something like that.. Thats why the safest bet is to use the 5.1CH english everytime and uncheck everything else...
     
  9. sadsac

    sadsac Guest

    Is there a way to listen to the tracks to be sure I'm not taking off anything I don't want to? As I said before, I always uncheck the commentary tracks, but a few movies I have looked at contain 2 or 3 commentary tracks in addition to 3 or 4 2 channel English audio tracks.
     
  10. brobear

    brobear Guest

    Sadsac
    I've seen what you're referring to. A lot of movies have the 2 channel commentary and then more 2 channel tracks in addition to the commentary. I haven't really delved into their content because I choose 5.1, if I make a choice. I suspect they are for the movie and for extras. I haven't tried breaking them down to see what goes where. More trouble than it's worth for me. Since you brought it up, it does cause a bit of curiosity. It'll be interesting to see what you find.
     
  11. bbmayo

    bbmayo Active member

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    I'm with Brobear on this one, and am not sure if there is a proggy out there that will let you know exctly what each audio is. Other than copying them seperatly and listening to each one. Just seems like a lot of waste of time when all you need to do is use the 5.1CH sound, but it does raise my curiosity. In fact when I get home I may have to experiment myself. :)
     
  12. sadsac

    sadsac Guest

    Here's an example I immediately found.

    Spiderman disc 1 has the following:
    English 5.1 410MB
    French 5.1 352MB
    English 2 channel 175MB
    English 2 channel 175MB
    English 2 channel 175MB
    English 1 channel 87 MB

    There are no less than 3 2 channel English audio tracks on the disk. And I'v never heard of 1 channel audio being on a disk.

    What's up with that??
     
  13. gerard514

    gerard514 Regular member

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    Would you say that this program is better than shrink as far as quality of compression. Mainly is the video quality and playback look better than shrink, or are these two programs just about the same.

    Thanks for the help.
     
  14. forkndave

    forkndave Member

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    If you want to hear the different tracks, preview the movie in DVD Shrink and right click on the preview screen. This will allow you to select any track to listen to to see what it is. Any track except DTS, that is, because I don't think most computers will play it. It would sound the same as the AC3-5.1 if you could hear it. The extras sometimes have all sorts of audio tracks since each extra may have a different kind of audio. I usually record all of those if I use the extras. I generally only retain the 5.1 for the main movie unless I feel I have enough room for the DTS. On movies that have 5.1 and 2 channel that are identical, I keep the 5.1 and don't use the 2 channel. The 5.1 is larger than the 2 channel but I feel it's worth it. If anyone is worried about DVD players not converting 5.1 to 2 channel, just remember that a lot of DVDs have 5.1 only and they play OK on everything.
     
  15. brobear

    brobear Guest

    The lesson started back with mono and stereo. Stereo played on the mono and you could get mono out both stereo speakers, though some did just play mono on one side. Basically, the same carries over to multi speaker systems. The industry is going to try to reach the most equipment to maximize profits.
     
  16. sadsac

    sadsac Guest

    Thanks forkndave, for your post. I didn't realize you could right click on the preview screen and change audio tracks.

    This answers the question completely. I noticed on one DVD that there were 2 versions of 2 channel audio. Usually, they list one version as 2 channel English commentary. This particular disk didn't say "commentary", but the audio was commentary.

    This was the answer I was searching for. Thanks!
     
  17. brobear

    brobear Guest

    Sadsac
    If you're wanting to get confused, you can try the movie Cellular. That one went wild listing 2 channel tracks. Also, when clicking the viewer to change sound, I've noticed it will list one 2 channel selection when there are a few in the Audio listing; not counting the commentary. One still has the problem of ascertianing which is which. If there is only the commentary and a regular 2 channel and they're listed as such, that's a no brainer.
     
  18. brobear

    brobear Guest

    Also, if you're not familiar with the viewer, you can double click and enlarge it to full screen on the monitor. Another double click restores it to the small size. You can right click while enlarged for the controls as well. Fullscreen in the right click menu moves you up and down as well.
     
  19. gerard514

    gerard514 Regular member

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    Would the dts channel not work just because usually laptops dont have the decoder? Or would you still get some sound? Any one else using a laptop that maybe able to play back dts.

    Thanks for the help.
     
  20. brobear

    brobear Guest

    With a PC, the important thing is the software that rips and encodes the files. As far as playing goes, a laptop can't play DTS because it doesn't have the speaker system. You can play sound if you have audio, but it wouldn't be true DTS. After all, DTS is for surround sound and you need a DTS compatible entertainment system with surround sound speakers to be able to benefit from the DTS encoded media.
     

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