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Question avi format has smoother motion than mp4 or mkv ?

Discussion in 'Other video questions' started by tom80112, Oct 1, 2015.

  1. tom80112

    tom80112 Member

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    I've noticed that motion in mkv or mp4 format often fatigues my eyes like
    it is skipping frames or something.

    I've downloaded the same TV show in avi and mp4 format.
    Motion when viewing the avi version seems consistently "easier on my eyes".
    The mp4 in my example is twice the size so you would think it would have
    more better motion but it doesn't. Both show the same frame rate 29.970

    Can someone help me understand why? Does AVI encode motion better?
    Here are the specs for each video. Based on the specs maybe someone help
    me understand why avi seems to display smoother motion? Thanks..

    BTW: When I open up both videos on my pc (side by side) on the same screen
    (both sized identically to about 4"x6") you can really see how the motion seems
    smoother with the avi.


    The MP4:
    Code:
    Format                                   : MPEG-4
    Format profile                           : Base Media
    Codec ID                                 : isom
    File size                                : 638 MiB
    Duration                                 : 45mn 13s
    Overall bit rate mode                    : Variable
    Overall bit rate                         : 1 973 Kbps
    Format                                   : AVC
    Format/Info                              : Advanced Video Codec
    Format profile                           : High@L4.0
    Format settings, CABAC                   : Yes
    Format settings, ReFrames                : 3 frames
    Codec ID                                 : avc1
    Codec ID/Info                            : Advanced Video Coding
    Duration                                 : 45mn 13s
    Bit rate                                 : 1 841 Kbps
    Maximum bit rate                         : 5 012 Kbps
    Width                                    : 832 pixels
    Height                                   : 464 pixels
    Display aspect ratio                     : 16:9
    Frame rate mode                          : Constant
    Frame rate                               : 29.970 fps
    Color space                              : YUV
    Chroma subsampling                       : 4:2:0
    Bit depth                                : 8 bits
    Scan type                                : Progressive
    Bits/(Pixel*Frame)                       : 0.159
    Stream size                              : 595 MiB (93%)
    Writing library                          : x264 core 66 r1092 60f4cd8
    Encoding settings                        : cabac=1 / ref=3 / deblock=1:-1:-1 / analyse=0x3:0x113 / me=umh / subme=9 / psy_rd=1.1:0.0 / mixed_ref=0 / me_range=16 / chroma_me=0 / trellis=0 / 8x8dct=1 / cqm=0 / deadzone=21,11 / chroma_qp_offset=-2 / threads=3 / nr=0 / decimate=1 / mbaff=0 / bframes=3 / b_pyramid=0 / b_adapt=2 / b_bias=0 / direct=3 / wpredb=1 / keyint=250 / keyint_min=25 / scenecut=40(pre) / rc=2pass / bitrate=1841 / ratetol=1.0 / qcomp=0.60 / qpmin=10 / qpmax=51 / qpstep=4 / cplxblur=20.0 / qblur=0.5 / vbv_maxrate=25000 / vbv_bufsize=14000 / ip_ratio=1.40 / pb_ratio=1.30 / aq=1:1.00
    
    The AVI:
    Code:
    Format                                   : AVI
    Format/Info                              : Audio Video Interleave
    File size                                : 350 MiB
    Duration                                 : 44mn 49s
    Overall bit rate                         : 1 091 Kbps
    Writing application                      : VirtualDubMod 1.5.10.2 (build 2540/release)
    Writing library                          : VirtualDubMod build 2540/release
    Format                                   : MPEG-4 Visual
    Format profile                           : Advanced Simple@L5
    Format settings, BVOP                    : 2
    Format settings, QPel                    : No
    Format settings, GMC                     : No warppoints
    Format settings, Matrix                  : Default (MPEG)
    Codec ID                                 : XVID
    Codec ID/Hint                            : XviD
    Duration                                 : 44mn 49s
    Bit rate                                 : 951 Kbps
    Width                                    : 512 pixels
    Height                                   : 384 pixels
    Display aspect ratio                     : 4:3
    Frame rate                               : 29.970 fps
    Color space                              : YUV
    Chroma subsampling                       : 4:2:0
    Bit depth                                : 8 bits
    Scan type                                : Progressive
    Compression mode                         : Lossy
    Bits/(Pixel*Frame)                       : 0.161
    Stream size                              : 305 MiB (87%)
    Writing library                          : XviD 1.0.3 (UTC 2004-12-20)
     
  2. scorpNZ

    scorpNZ Active member

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    It doesn't encode better on avi as i've done dvd's to avi,file size set as high as i can get it under 4gb,trimmed front & end credits,removed all but one language & still could on occasion see what you mention,the dvd doesn't appear to show that (as far as i remember perhaps it is there it's just moving faster) so all i can assume is it's something to do with the compression & what i would call frames moving from one to the next,most of them only have a few bits like that.You could try over at videohelp.com & see if there's any mention already
     
  3. Mez

    Mez Active member

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    Is the avi bigger? I agree with scorp it is probably not the format but the fidelity. Remember a wide screen movie on an old fashion DVD runs 6 or more gigs. You really want to keep your videos above 4g if you are going to watch them on on a screen of any decent size. I reserve mkv files for blue ray and I keep them a lot bigger than 6 g. Otherwise what is the use?
     
  4. tom80112

    tom80112 Member

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    These TV shows are about 45 mins and the files sizes are 350mb and 638mb
    as shown above. Not 4GB at all. Looking closer, it seems the avi is also
    using mp4 so it must be all in how it was encoded. (which I did not do)

    Another angle to consider, is it possible that my WDTV that I use to
    play it on my TV is lacking the horse power to play highly compressed
    video smoothy? Or does the compression aspect have no effect when
    being played back?
     
    Last edited: Oct 7, 2015
  5. Mez

    Mez Active member

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    Probably more compression less bandwidth. How are you getting the file to the player? I have one and it is a bit slow while I am navigating to find a file on a flash drive. I can't ff more than 4x. Maybe you have a band width problem. The avi looks like it was less. Same f per sec but the frames are smaller.
     
  6. tom80112

    tom80112 Member

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    I have a hard drive plugged into the WDTV via a usb 2.0 port.
    avi is smaller in size yes.
     
  7. attar

    attar Senior member

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    Don't know how many reference frames the WDTV thingy can retain in memory - I think it uses the reference frames to recall display data - but 3 sounds like it should handle it ok (I think the maximum frames that the encoder can provide is 16).
     
  8. scorpNZ

    scorpNZ Active member

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    I've got some dvd's of babylon 5 original uncompressed,there is jagged motion when played on the pc when i used vlc,however i then switched to klite ,the issue is no longer there,i also did an mkv conversion & the same thing happened on episodes that were set as the max i could make them under 4gb.Mp4 was the encoder i used for the mkv container,So begs the question is it to do with the players decoding ability & not so much the file format.Keep in mind the skipping you mention i usually find is more prevalent on cgi action not real human etc
     
  9. Mez

    Mez Active member

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    A HD is faster than a flash drive. I play DVD I s o files which are larger than 4 g from a flash drive with no problems.

    Your problem is beyond my technical ability.

    I have one last wacky thought. In the audio world Trans coding can cause lots of problems. The combination of ignorance and poor tools degrades audio. The fools think the process is fool proof but it isn't. Maybe this applies to videos as well.
     

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