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buffer underun problems.......again

Discussion in 'DVD±R for advanced users' started by hursty, Apr 10, 2005.

  1. hursty

    hursty Active member

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    i am struggling to copy both dvd's and ps2 games
    the buffer is giving me grief
    i had this problem before,but it seems to have come back

    it used to be when using dvd decrypter,
    the buffer would just empty, the pc would make all sorts of noises,then the memory buffer will empty,
    the burn speed would drop,
    then it would fill back up again???
    this must be affecting my backups......

    but it now seems not only to be affecting dvd decrypter
    it has shifted to when i use alcohol 120

    the cpu usage is also jumping about,anything from
    0-100%????

    i have tried the following steps:

    full virus scan with norton/xoftspy/acronis......but nothing

    dma is enabled on everything

    i have aspi layers

    yes,i do turn off internet and do nothing else

    [bold]if this could be a pc problem,then i need to know because the unit is still covered with the warranty[/bold]

    how could i check this???

    i am no pc expert

    any help is great
     
  2. baabaa

    baabaa Active member

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    Is this problem actually causing failed burns or bad readable backups as you have not mentioned that?
    If it is causing failed burns could you post the failure logs that are displayed?

    What operating system are you using?
    What CPU are you using?
    What size/type of memory have you installed?
    What size is your HD, and how much freespace is used?
    What media are you using?
    Who is the manufacturer of your writer and model number?
    Have you flashed the firmware at all?
    How is your writer connected, ie primary slave/secondary master etc?

    The buffer problem is normally an issue between the controller and the software, the buffer is there to 'help' in the transfer of data by acting as a temporary float when there are speed mismatches between the flow of data and the receiving writer.

    Making sure your resources are not 'bottlenecking' is the way to reduce the problem, however this area contains alot of variables, if you can answer the above questions then we may be able to highlight an area where your resources are 'splatting' the operation.

     
  3. hursty

    hursty Active member

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    [bold] Is this problem actually causing failed burns or bad readable backups as you have not mentioned that?
    If it is causing failed burns could you post the failure logs that are displayed?
    [/bold]

    i have not checked them,but on occasions you can see on the disc's,marks/different shades after burning.i.e probably where the buffer failure was

    [bold]What operating system are you using? [/bold]

    xp service pack 2

    [bold]What CPU are you using? [/bold]

    intel celeron 2.80 ghz

    [bold]What size/type of memory have you installed? [/bold]

    512 mb

    [bold]What size is your HD, and how much freespace is used? [/bold]

    80g with plenty left,only used about 40gb

    [bold]What media are you using? [/bold]

    ritek's own brand GO4's

    [bold]Who is the manufacturer of your writer and model number? [/bold]

    pioneer 108

    [bold]Have you flashed the firmware at all? [/bold]

    yes with 1.18,from the pioneer official site

    [bold]How is your writer connected, ie primary slave/secondary master etc?
    [/bold]

    the pioneer is connected to the secondary channel,as the slave

    cheers for the help
     
  4. squizzle

    squizzle Active member

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    Do you have your burner on the same IDE channel (Primary or Secondary) as your hard drive? That could be your bottleneck.
     
  5. hursty

    hursty Active member

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    no the hardrive is on the primary channel
     
  6. squizzle

    squizzle Active member

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  7. baabaa

    baabaa Active member

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    If you had buffer failure then the burn would fail mid porcess - period.
    The fact that the buffer is fluctuating will not transfer itself onto the disc - it either burns or it doesn't - ones and zeros remember.

    The marks you see, will probably be from small specs of dust already on the disc as you insert it into the writer, these specs are then burned over causing the discolouration.
    Also it is common for some discs to already have these slight discolouration specs on, even though they do appear bad, if your writer burns completely then I would be surprised if they are actually bad, aside form certain players not being able to read them.

    Don't worry about it, if your backups are reading/working OK.

    The buffer ALWAYS fluctuates during a burn anyway this is due to DMA, because it will get emptied/filled between each file or vob etc and is normal.

    Reference to your specs:
    Celerons are renowned for fluctuations on CPU power, this is due to the physical makeup of them and the amount of cache that is contained within the chip and should not cause real concern.

    The RAM may can have an impact on the buffer especially if you are sharing alot of resources during the burn. ie screensavers, multitasking, shared graphics onboard etc etc.

    Your HD may require a defrag action on it to get all the information clustered up so that the information is being streamed smoothly with little interruption from the HD arm moving alot, this can cause fluctuations in the buffer.

    The media is a reputable brand, but this in itself WILL have a direct action on the buffer in relation to your burner.

    I have the Pioneer 108 on the original firmware from purchase and I do not encounter any issues, this does not mean mine is better of course.

    What is connected to the Secondary as Master?
    Swap them around and have your reader as slave on your secondary and your burner as Master on your secondary and see if that makes a difference.

    The firmware upgrade may help, but Pioneer have already loaded up most of the GO4's into the firmware already so the media support is quite comprehensive at the base level of firmware already.

    The most common issue is 'buffer underrun', this is caused when the writer has to pause the burn cycle to wait for the information to arrive and is the most common cause for buffer fluctuation, if this happens TOO much for the burner/controller/program to handle, then the burn process will fail there and then.

    Right I have been typing away like a banshi and my fingers hurt..............

    One last note, I repeat, if your burn process is completing and the backups are ok, then why worry...................

    [bold]If it ain't broke, don't fix it[/bold]
     
  8. hursty

    hursty Active member

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    good point baabaa,thanks for the info

    i have been talking to rotary in depth on this matter,
    as it has happened before

    i had to a whole system reboot to overcome this problem,a while back
    i just dont want to do that again..

    something/somewhere is causing this,because its not normal

    burning at x4 speed,with buffer emptying cant be good though,the burn on the disc's dont look good,but i will test them for errors with nero

    as for the defrag,i do that once a week
    but rotary has suggested i do it more often,especially when the amount of work i am doing on my pc lately has 10 folded,
    hehe

    which brings me onto another problem......hehe

    i use diskeeper by executive software.....it has totally screwed my system,i cant get rid of it
    i unistalled on advice,on the intention of using windows defrag again

    only to find this app'has taken over my pc,i cant get rid of it
    everytime i go to install windows defrag it defaults back to "executive app"

    many thanks
     
  9. creaky

    creaky Moderator Staff Member

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    @baabaa - which buffer are you talking about ?. I ask as in Nero, when i've multitasked due to fidgeting, or something has accidentally caused some hard disc churn (like the day msn messenger beta crashed and the hard disc churned away like mad for ages), i've watched the big buffer near top of Nero window (ie not the tiny buffer at bottom of window) drop to virtually zero, then slowly fill up again. When i've watched these discs thru they freeze and skip. Now i know all about freezing and skipping etc, i got caught out by crap media and multitasking etc etc long ago so know how to avoid and don't ever get caught by this; EXCEPT when that big buffer at top of window falls to zero and rises again. This is on my good Verb discs. So what i'm long-windedly saying is that i've had a few burns that complete fine, but due to that buffer dropping, results (for me) in a disc that jumps on playback. Honest guvner !. So i stay well away from PC now and have no more skipped films..
     
  10. hursty

    hursty Active member

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    @creaky

    i never touch pc when burning,and still get this buffer problem

    it first started with just dvd decrypter,nero used to work fine
    but there are times when i like to use dvd decrypter,but i have lost confidence in using it
    i know this has nothing to do with app',but for the time being i am keeping clear
    thats when i used alcohol 120,but the same thing has ocurred there

    i agree with you,the buffer failure although it doesnt result in burn failures,the disc's dont look good,and when you are doing someone a favour and copying there disc's for them,i havent got time to check them.,cough cough.so gods knows what they are turning out like
    you can see different rings on them,i am going to defrag more often,
    see if that helps
    because this is a right pain in the ass
     
  11. creaky

    creaky Moderator Staff Member

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    @hursty, touch wood since i went to Verbatim's (and not fidgeted or stuff) not one single problem. In fact it's just sooo predictable now, discs just work lol.

    I guess all i can add is for you to watch a couple thru and see if they jump. It seems like everything that should be set , is set, and all seems to be in order from your discussions with the posters.

    What i tend to do lately is leave Nero on screen so i can see the large buffer at top (still don't know what it's called!, im very forgetful) during a burn. This buffer stays virtually 100% (i think it's always 100%). The tiny buffer near bottom of window fluctuates between 95ish% to 100% pretty much all the time, i think that's normal. In my experience the top buffer bar is the one that causes the problem. Come to think of it i vaguely recall Alcohol has a very similar buffer bar..
     
  12. Doofy

    Doofy Regular member

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    I usually get over this problem by defragging my drives, and i got to agree diskeeper is a royal pain in the arse, I us perfect disk much better and faster IMO
     
  13. hursty

    hursty Active member

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    i wish i could try something esle,but i cant get rid of it

    if anyone has any ideas..........[bold]LET ME KNOW[/bold]
     
  14. creaky

    creaky Moderator Staff Member

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    defragging is one thing i v rarely think about/or actually do. i only use my pc for burning and dialling into work (cough cough overtime opportunites), so the 2 chunks of space left for films tend to stay pretty much free. I do use diskkeeper (i do like it btw) as i long ago got fed up with the constant restarts of built-in defragmenter around the 10% mark edit - hang on this must have been win95/98/98se specific). Plus i got fed up running defrags in safe mode just to get past 10%.

    As to getting rid of diskkeeper, or any other programs, if an uninstall fails, i always get rid via regedit, just chopping out most references manually. I would not recommend everyone do this but i'm au fait with it, been doing it for many years with many a crap program. But as i say i wouldn't recommend anyone potentially screwing up their system.

    Gone are the days when i would defrag as often as you lot, my pc use just doesn't necessitate frequent defrags. ie if ever i run a defrag, it has very little work to do and takes no time at all (i watch the coloured bits flying around so i know it's worting), but that's just my pc use..

    and yippee my monstrous 120Gigger should turn up today, yay. no more doing 2 films with Shrink, Nero'ing them one at a time to DVD, them next 2 via Shrink..
     
    Last edited: Apr 11, 2005
  15. baabaa

    baabaa Active member

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    Can I just repeat, it makes no difference how much the buffer fluctuates during the burn, this is not reflected onto the DVD at all and will not cause the 'skipping and freezing'.

    Where this occurs is normally due to the 'error correction' function within the player has been exceeded and cannot focus on the data correctly, quick enough.
    This is caused by crap reflectivity (or even a dirty optical pickup) from the surface of the disc (especially the extreme outer circumference), whether it has been burned at 1x or 54x - the data is there if the burn has been successful and lies totally down to the 'error correction' being able to adjust fast enough to read the data.

    Crap surface (dye colour) is the main attribute to skipping and freezing issues................................

    In the digital world there only 1's and 0's - it is either there or it isn't, it is either on or off.
     
  16. creaky

    creaky Moderator Staff Member

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    @baabaa - i'm just describing what i've seen happen, and have tested the odd disc that it's happen to (Verbatim datalifeplus) - many 100s watched 100%. i'll have to look out more closely if it happens again, but guess it won't as i don't multitask now. Most ppl seem to suggest no multitasking for the same reasons i think. I don't have too much faith in buffer underrun technology, not yet anyway
     
  17. spikedbz

    spikedbz Guest

    I am having this same problem. Its very annoying. It takes 45 mins to burn a dvd-r when it usually takes 15! Out of the huge responses everybody put, i think i missed exactly how to fix this. Could somebody make it clear?
     
  18. Jerry746

    Jerry746 Senior member

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    Hi Hursty, When you uninstall Disc Keeper. Do you go into your C drive and also delete the folder that may be left over? Then run a Reg Cleaner before rebooting. That should get rid of any left overs. But who knows exactly how the program is set up. Sounds like its almost written like a reproducing virus. Hope you get it straightened out.

    Jerry
     
  19. hursty

    hursty Active member

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    i delete everything,but it still appears,
    i have just got an app' called registry first aider,which i have used,and it found about 1500 obselete enries!!!.......but i have not tried un-installing disk keeper as yet,
    as for the buffer problems,as seem good again(to a certain extent) for now,although when using dvd decrypter seems to have the worst effect on it still,
    i now use nothing but clone dvd 2 for movies,no problems
    i run a hd defrag more often,every 3/4 days,which seems to have done the trick.
    i am downloading about 3-4 gb's a day,and processing a lot of info,
    this may what have caused it in the first place.....

    lack of maintenance

    i will keep this thread posted of any change
     

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