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Can anyone, anywhere, reliably burn DVDs?

Discussion in 'DVDR' started by Kiernan, Nov 25, 2004.

  1. Kiernan

    Kiernan Member

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    Looking back over the postings here, there is a repetitive problem with DVDs freezing, skipping, etc.

    The solutions put forward are: use better media, burn slower, burn faster, use other ASPI, pray, tread softly.

    As burning is simply copying a data file onto a blank DVD why is it such a problem to get it right? Is there any way of verifying a burn to ensure it is right? I, and I'm sure other Newbies, would welcome any comments!
     
  2. flip218

    flip218 Moderator Staff Member

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    Where did you read that?

    Where did you read that?

    I would say for most, backing up dvd's using DVD Shrink and DVD Decrypter are successful. I would advise burning no faster than 4x and definitely use good media to start. An aspi layer never hurts, and some have been successful without even installing one.

    I would say hardware and maybe conflicting software causes the biggest problems.
     
  3. colw

    colw Active member

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    The answer to your question is yes - most people who have done their homework, keep their

    system well maintained, read the guides and use reliable media have not problems in burning

    DVD's. I have burnt many hundred's without any problems.
    ____________________________________________________
    As burning is simply copying a data file onto a blank DVD
    ____________________________________________________

    Your statement above is an example of lack of homework and understanding - Copying

    movie DVD's is multiple process that entails ripping, encoding, compressing and burning.

    Working with DVD's is a resource intenstive process and differs considerably from techniques

    used to copy and burn CD's.

    Suggest a bit more homework prior to making broad unsubstantiated statements.
     
  4. paul5619

    paul5619 Member

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    a question for flip 218 if i may.
    whats an aspi layer?
    i ask this as ive never installed one but still burn dvds fine.
     
  5. Kiernan

    Kiernan Member

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    ASPI stands for Advanced SCSI Programming Interface. Why anyone who has an IDE drive (almost every drive currently available on the market) would need one is beyond me - perhaps someone else can explain?

    Ragarding my previous statement that "burning is simply copying a data file onto a blank DVD" well it is in fact just that. I have already used DVD Shrink and/or DVD Decrypter to produce the necessary IFO, BUP and VOB files. My burner is doing no more than copying these files onto the blank media - it has no way of knowing whether the files are video, data or anything else! So why is the process so unreliable?

    Flip218 - I made up pray myself and it doesn't help. On this forum I saw suggestions to burn as fast as your device allows and I saw suggestions to reduce vibrations in your drive by not clumping around the room in big boots while burning! I have burned the same movie 5 times and all have had freezes (each time in different places). I've used different burners, I've verified the data after burning, I'm bewildered!

     
  6. Veblin

    Veblin Active member

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    ASPI stands for Advanced SCSI Programming Interface. Originally developed by Adaptec. It is a software layer that enables programs to communicate with SCSI [bold](and ATAPI)[/bold] devices.

    [bold]paul5619[/bold]
    You are using some form of I/O Interface layer when you burn. Some older versions of Windows come with ASPI. Newer versions come with SPTI. Whatever program you are using may come with it's own ASPI or other I/O interface included or may use one that is already installed with Windows or from a different burning software. Some more info here.
    http://forums.afterdawn.com/thread_view.cfm/104533

    I recommend installing Force ASPI 1.8 just to be sure.
    http://forceaspi18.w.interia.pl/
     
  7. Leafs1

    Leafs1 Member

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    Alot of the problems here are the media (quality ) and or DVD players. Question, have you been successful burning other dvd's. Do they all play well in your standalones? Is it all the same media? I'm so new at this that all I did was read these threads and guides for a week before even attempting and when I finally burned my first DVD it worked however I had to replace my DVD players because they weren't compatible.Also I find that when the DVD players get to warm the movies tend to freeze and skip. Simply stated with the proper media and player DVD shrink and Nero to burn is all it takes. Just my experience as a newbie!
     
  8. Kiernan

    Kiernan Member

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    Thanks Veblin. I'll try installing the ASPI layer. How do I force Easy CD Creator to use it though?

    Leafs1, the media I'm using is cheap but it's on the list of supported media by NEC for my drive so it should be OK. All my DVDs freeze in different places but always in the same place if you know what I mean! The freeze is always the same regardless of temperature - it's as if the freeze is coded into the video-stream on my DVD and my player reliable reproduces it everytime!!
     
  9. LeoLeroy

    LeoLeroy Member

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    Kiernan, I'm a newbie but I'll throw in my two cents anyway. I've been usinmg 321's Xcopy for about a year on cheap DVDs. Using Xcopy, I've never had a problem with freezing or anything else.

    My first burner was a Sony 4x and I recently replaced it with a Pioneer multi-layer DVD burner. For some reason I had to reinstall Xcopy, but after that everything works great with the new DVD burner.

    I've been doing a lot of searching and reading too, and I'm more confused now than I ever was! I'm looking for software myself that will make a copy from a copy, which 321's Xcopy won't do (to my knowledge).

    The DVDs I'm using now are Memorex DVD+R 4.7GB 4x. I bought them in bulk (100) and they work every time. I haven't made a coaster yet (knock on wood!). However, I'm still stuck with 321's Xcopy and would like to get away from it.

    If you come up with the right combination of software, please let me know. I'm running Windows XP, with SP2.
     
  10. ScubaPete

    ScubaPete Senior member

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    kiernan,

    I was going to address to you BUT it seems it's needed by others too.

    First, You don't force a drive to use an ASPI layer, if it's on your PC, all of your drives will use it. If it's not on your PC you'll have a world of problems trying to burn DVD's (LOl)

    Second, your question from the top, you're not just moving Data - you're dealing with encrypted data which has to be broken down then encoded, compressed, THEN burned to disc. It's a bit more compliacated than it seems. BTW, all totaled, I've burned more than 800 DVD's, and it's rare that I have a problem.

    As for discs, let me give you a brief education and a very valuble tool -

    Let's take Memorex as an excellent example as DVD media goes, 90% of Memorex, made by CMC, is sub-standard as far as DVD backups are concerned, figures as high as 50% coasters have been reported (One member bought a stack of 50 and got 23 good burns.), not what I would call an impressive record. Memorex made a name for itself with their magnetic tapes (VHS and audio cassettes) and have been living off it ever since. There are 4 different companies that manufacture Memorex DVD's BTW and product quality varies widely as you might imagine. Only 10% of the Memorex out there, those are discs manufactured by Mitsubishi in the 25 pack spindle , and they're the exception - they are the good ones. It's easy to see now why the quality of a big-named company can't be trusted - " Who's making your Memorex tonight ?"

    Is it just Memorex ? No ! I just used Memorex as an example, Princo, Orange Pack, Great AZO and most "store" discs aren't all that suitable as a DVD backup media - that's why we are specific in the type of media we are recommending.

    1. * Cheap media freezes, skips, pixelats and may refuse to be recognized by both burners and players :-( Besides "Freezing", "skips" many times you'll get a "Cyclic Redundancy error" or an "I/O error". This message can mean that your discs are scratched or dirty, it can also mean that your burner won't accept your "cheap" media :-(
    Another problem which, "Pops up" is a "*Power Calibration Error". This can stop you right in your tracks and most often is caused by, Yep, you guessed it, inexpensive media. *A "Power Calibration Error" can also be attributed to the Optical Components of a DVD Writer, though this isn't usually the case.

    Orange Pack, Princo, Great AZO and 90% of Memorex plus many others are just not that good for DVD burning. Those same discs however, are quite good for your MP3 music, picture archives, Spread sheets and Data..Even DataSafe G04's made by Ritek have been reported as an inferior quality media and are evoking that "Oh no, I shouldn't have gotten those."

    What we are suggesting is to download this DVD Identifier to find out who manufactured your DVD and if it's a decent quality.

    http://dvd.identifier.cdfreaks.com/

    Once you have your disc identified, click the "More information" icon and see what information you're given. if you're not sure of the quality, come on back and we'll check it out for you -

    2. A good grade, Hi-quality media is needed for DVD reproduction ! RiData, Sony, TDK, "Branded" Ritek G04's or "Branded" Verbatim Data Life, Verbatim DataLife plus, Taiyo Yuden's and generally, almost any discs manufactured by Mitsubishi are excellent bets. Among the better discs we're looking for, any media boasting "Advanced Metal AZO" - BUT it must say "METAL" AZO !, this indicates a superior dye and dye application on a good composite disc, while they are sometimes a bit "pricey" they are just the type of media we're looking for to do our DVD backups, Prices online from Meritline.com OR Newegg.com have gotten Ritek G04 starting at about a $ .45 (USD) a disc -

    For DVD backups, purchasing inexpensive media or even average media is a gamble, some people win BUT the majority lose, they lose varying amounts true but, they still lose :-(

    Using good grade media can guarantee you one thing to an absolute certainty; it surely cannot hurt.

    In an effort to clear the air, when I speak of "Cheap" or "Inexpensive" media, I'm not referring to the price you pay at the counter - I'm referring to poor quality control used during manufacturing and the quality of the dye, dye application or composite type used. I'm not saying it won't burn - Some may burn, some may not. It's quality is inconsistent, meaning it's not dependable. To make matters worse, many times the discs that you do burn may play in your PC BUT your standalone player may not accept them - what good then is a backup DVD that cannot be watched on a DVD player ?

    When I say "Branded," that means that when you pick up a disc in your hand, it says "Ritek" or "RiData" on the disc itself. The monetary cost of the media we recommend many times is cheaper than what you are purchasing now.

    We like to verify our information prior to recommending things. There are certain things we look at. For instance, when their dye and dye application are listed as unknown, this almost guarantees us they are using whatever they can get at a cheap price. Companies that use quality materials like to BRAG about it, naming names and staying with quality manufacturers who produce their media.

    Using DVD identifier and MediaMatch can help you find out a lot about what you're using. Purchasing your DVD media online can insure that you're getting quality merchandise at a good price. Shopping wisely will save you time, aggravation and money.

    To recap - Your "freezing" should cease when you upgrade your media -

    To help you with your ASPI install, read on -

    Now we need to see if we have a working ASPI Layer.

    "Yea right, and ASPI stands for Another Stupid Piece of Insanity, right ?" No, not quite, it stands for "Advanced SCSI Programming Interface". "Well that tells me nothing, what's it do ?" That's a much easier question to answer. It is kind of a "translator" allowing your software to talk your hardware in a manner that your hardware will understand. Let's imagine an Earthman trying to talk to a rock. Now, think of a sledgehammer as being the interface. With the interface in play, the Earthman can tell the rock to disperse into gravel no matter what planet the rock is from, OK ? Good, let's see if we have a sledgehammer -

    2. Check for your ASPI Layer. If one isn't present, we'll need to get one and reinstall it, then reboot our PC to allow it to "settle in".

    ASPI Checker -
    http://www.adaptec.com/worldwide/su...oduct/EZ-SCSI_5.0&filekey=aspichk.exe&sess=no

    Force 1.8 ASPI Layer -

    http://forceaspi18.w.interia.pl/

    If you've found you need an ASPI layer OR would like some additional information about it - here you go -

    http://cd-rw.org/articles/archive/aspisetup.cfm

    If we can be of anymore aid, let us know -

    Pete
     
    Last edited: Nov 26, 2004
  11. paul5619

    paul5619 Member

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    hi pete,
    also been following your advice,
    installed aspi check and it says aspi is not installed properly,one or more components have been replaced with older versions of software.
    Tried to install new one and got a zip file with loads of files inside.(stook from here in)
    Thought id installed it properly but after restart still get same message.
    can you talk me through it a little more.
    Will this effect me burning dvds cause the ones i burn play in some players but not all.
    cheers
     
  12. Kiernan

    Kiernan Member

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    Pete,

    Thanks a million for your very informative and detailed post.

    The media I'm using is "Budget" labelled but the identifier shows it as a Taiyo Yuden disc which is approved by NEC for my drive. Should that be OK or have I completely misunderstood what you're saying? THE UDI is DVD+R:YUDEN000-T02-000, I'd appreciate your comments on this.

    Regarding the ASPI layer, I've run the checker and I have NO ASPI installed!! DVD Decrypter uses SPTI instead. Should I install ASPI then? Is Adaptec better than Force (bear in mind I use Roxio(Adaptec?) Easy CD/DVD Creator)?

    Thanks
     
  13. LeoLeroy

    LeoLeroy Member

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    Kiernan, I've been following this thread 'cause I'm also a newbie and use Roxio Easy CD/DVD Creator.

    I "think" you're supposed to click on the "more info" button with DVD Indetifier. That takes you to a website but I haven't figured it out either.

    FYI, the UPI on my DVDs is DVD+R:RICOHJPN-R01-002. They were labeled as Memorex and came in a 100 pack. They work fine with 321's Xcopy, but haven't tried them with any other software yet.

    Kiernan, what OS are you running? I'm running XP Home with Service Pack 2 installed.
     
  14. ScubaPete

    ScubaPete Senior member

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    Ok guys, I'll answer you both -

    Your TY's are top of the line - stay with them, you can do ne better.

    As for the Memorex, only 10% of all Memorex are made by Ricoh and there is nothing at all wrong with these.

    The problem is that 90% of Memorex is manufactured by CMC and Prodisc and are in our "This is crappy media" catagory. The next 100- pack may be CMC - there is no way to tell. I have no idea why the company does what they do - it makes no sense -

    AFA the ASPI layer, yes guys, you should have it installed. try Adaptec first if it won't install use the Force 1.7 OR the 1.8 (you can "Goggle" for the last one as the only link I have is in Russian. No, there is no difference in ASPI layers, just get one in -

    If I missed something, let me know what it is -

    Cheers,

    Pete
     
  15. LeoLeroy

    LeoLeroy Member

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    Thanks Pete! I "probably" have another question. I'm in the process of burning (or trying to burn) a DVD as I write this.

    I used DVD Decrypter, the DVD Shrink. I used the same folder for output files (bad idea!) Shrink came up with a message that Nero failed, but all the files were available.

    Now I'm burning (hopefully) with Roxio Disc Copier. It appeared that Roxio went through the same process as Shrink before it started burning.

    I'll find the answer on my next try, but if ya' already know, maybe you can post the answer.

    Can I skip the Shrink process using Roxio Disc Copier? In other words, does Roxio Disc Copier do the same thing as Shrink?

    More questions Pete. I just finished my burn and looks like it's good on my TV DVD player. Kiernan mentioned DVDs freezing and skipping. Is he referring to freezing and skipping while watching the DVD? I've only skimmed through the chapters so far on my newly burned DVD.
     
    Last edited: Nov 27, 2004
  16. paul5619

    paul5619 Member

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    pete
    any ideas........checked with aspicheck as you sugested but get the message aspi is not properly installed,one or more componentshave been replaced with older versions of software.
    tried to re-install from your other link but still get the same message.
    Any ideas...and will this affect dvd burning as most i do seem ok in most players (except one)
    appreciate comments.......
     
  17. LeoLeroy

    LeoLeroy Member

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    Pete,

    At the link in your post it says:
    =============
    Caution
    Do NOT install ASPI32.EXE with Windows 2000, Windows ME, Windows XP, Easy CD Creator 4.x, or with Windows Media Player 7.0. If you have one of these applications (or operating systems), you will be using a different aspi layer that will conflict with the one provided in this file. Use the new ASPI 4.70 driver found under SCSI Software downloads instead.

    This version of the ASPI Check utility will not work with the ASPI 4.70 layer, and will report false errors with the ASPI layer. Use the version of ASPICHK included in the ASPI 4.70 package instead.
    =============
    What should I use with Win XP Home to check my system for ASPI?

    Also, I just made a DVD using DVD Decrypter and Roxio Disc Copier (no DVD Shrink). Does this mean I have the correct ASPI installed and don't need to worry about it?
     
  18. ScubaPete

    ScubaPete Senior member

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    Paul and Leo,

    If you're getting satisfactory results then keep on burning -

    There's a saying, "If it ain't broke, don't break it."

    The reason that Nero failed is because you are using Roxio. It is a rare occurance when to two will work without a problem.

    Most lQQk on Roxio as a whore, spreading disease throught out other Video backup proggys and she's responsible for causing Nero and others like Nero to flee, faulter or fail.

    Since you both have found a satisfactory way to use Roxio I suggest that you continue on.

    The vast majority of pple on this forum have removed Roxio in order to use many other proggys. Unfortunatly I'm with the majority and have totally removed Roxio from my PC. Sorry I cannot be of more help to you on that subject.

    Should you encounter problems in the future, Please stop back and we'll be glad to help.

    As far as ASPI goes, it's my understanding that DVD Decrypter doesn't need an ASPI layer but I'm looking into it.

    Whenit says to use a different checker and layer, follow that advice and continue on -

    Leo, XP is XP be it Home or Professional - follow the advice on the links I sent you.

    Here's some more about ASPI, good reading -

    http://www.nu2.nu/aspi/

    Cheers,

    Pete

     
  19. LeoLeroy

    LeoLeroy Member

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    That's always been my motto!

    Thanks for your comments. I had trouble with Nero long before I had Roxio, and I was only trying to copy a VHS to a DVD. Been about 10 months agao. I got so frustrated with Nero that I swore I'n never use it again.

    Maybe I'll give it a shot in the future if I have problems with Roxio.

    Thanks again.
     
    Last edited: Nov 27, 2004
  20. ScubaPete

    ScubaPete Senior member

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    LeoLeroy,

    nero has just finished a brand new release and NeroVision is better than ever. Doing VHS to DVD, you might want to give a try just a little sooner :p)

    http://www.ahead.de/us/632261771103079.php

    Pete

     

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