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Can every DVD be copied?

Discussion in 'DVD±R for advanced users' started by neos, Nov 11, 2004.

  1. neos

    neos Member

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    I have followed the threads on the site for a long time now and have read all the FAQ's. I appreciate everyone's insight.

    1) Can EVERY DVD (especially newly released ones) be copied? For example, I have tried 30 times to rip Farenheit 9/11 and the re-release of of Reality Bites without success. I've tried Shrink and Decrypter, in various combinations and settings, without success. I always end up getting reading errors (e.g. Decrypter will rip 14% of the disc, then will retry 50x before I get fed up and cancel the burn). I follow all the advice on the threads, and even tried using the my DVD cleaning fliud on the discs multiple times. No luck. I'm using a 6-month old TDK 880n which has worked fine in the past.

    2) Do certain sractches on the DVD (espcially those from video stores) cause the disc to be un-rippable? Again, I've used the cleaning solution that supposedly "fixes" sratched disks, without success.

    3) People talk a lot about DVD media quality; how some brands are better than others. Does anyone know what brand/s the studios use to burn their movies? Would that ever have an effect on us being able to copy them?

    Thanks for your help
     
  2. dumbfuker

    dumbfuker Member

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    I don't know about question number 1. Sorry. As far as number 2, I think scratches or smudges definitely can cause errors. I've backed up about 100 dvds so far and only 1 was so severly scratched that it just wouldn't rip beyond a certain point. Like you, I tried cleaning it multiple times, all to no avail. Fianlly, I don't think commercial dvds are actually burned. I believe they are physically "pressed" much like vinyl albums of many years ago.

    If I'm wrong on any of this, I apologize, but I don't think I'm far off the mark. As my dad always said, free advice is often worth exactly what you paid for it. :)

    DF
     
  3. Whisperer

    Whisperer Regular member

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    neos
    What may look like an insignificant scuff can cause your reader's laser beam to misread certain originals even when a similar looking scuff ripped fine on other original disk(s). (maybe something to do with differing manufacturing techniques or materials) Tip and twist the disk under good lighting conditions and look VERY carefully at the disk for scratches, dings or scuffing especially scratches going "around" the circle-diameter-direction of the disk rather than scuffing straight out from the hub of the disk like the spoke of a wheel. The "around" kind of scratching is the hardest for your reader's laser beam to correct for.

    You can resolve the scratched & unrippable problem in one of two ways.

    First method: if the original movie disk is not deeply scratched but only lightly scratched or scuffed, wet the disk under cold running water and put 3 drops of concentrated dishwashing soap (the hand kind, not the dishwashing-machine kind & the bottle must state that it is "concentrated" like Safeway's house brand) and spread it around the entire surface of the disk. Rub pretty hard with your fingers, multiple times and over the whole playing surface, in little circles on the dvd as if you were trying to "push" a "deep-clean" soap into the crevasses of the plastic. I suspect the dishwashing soap trick works because of the residial-residue-coating-agent left behind after rinsing (you know how the ads brag that it leaves no spots and dries with a "crystal clear shean") fills in tiny scratches or flaws in the original disk so the laser gets a better "read". Rinse under the cold water tap while finger-rubbbing off the soap just enough to get the slick slime & bubbles off but don't "over rinse" the disk. Shake off residual water and dry the disk by patting (not rubbing) it lightly with a clean, very soft, fuzzy towel.

    Now you need a can of compressed air (you gotta have lots of compressed air on hand so find a cheap place to stock up on it). With the extension spray-tube attached to the air can, carefully spray any residual water out of the bonded seams of the disk layers in the center hole of the dvd disk. Pat again the disk surface and also into the center hole with the soft towel. Spray off any lint on the surface of the disk.

    Get the original movie disk into your reader real quick for ripping (have your system "ready to go"). Five to ten minutes after washing the disk this whole trick is less effective (ie something about its increased readability degrades after a few minutes).

    I know this sounds kookie but I am not pulling your leg and it has worked many times for me and other afterdawn posters.

    Second method: If this does not work, you may need to resurface (repair) the original. This is probably the best product for you to buy:

    http://store.yahoo.com/advantage123/skipdoccdrep.html

    http://www.skipdoctor.com/support/index.aspx

    Get the motorized version, hand cranking is a drag! Don't overlook buying the buffing accessories that enhance the product. After resurfacing, you are best off using the dishwashing method above as a final step before ripping.

    Best regards
    Dr. Whisperer ;-)

    PS: no dis intended but mentioning video stores is ... indiscreet ...
     
  4. bbmayo

    bbmayo Active member

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    Simple answer to your first question yes as far as I know every DVD can be "backed up" I have copied both movies you mentioned with no problems. Now to go further I have had problems reading some disks (2 or 3 out of over 400), and it was mainly the original disk at fault either due to scratch's or just plain dirty. I have used skip doctor, the hand soap with water method, and the toothpaste method to fix the original disk's. Skip doctor worked the best go ahead and spend the $30. There was only 1 movie I couldnt backup, but I got a hold of that same exact original movie later and had no problems. So I would suggest to you that it is probably the original disk at fault.
    One other question though are you using your 880n to rip the DVD or another DVD Rom? I have found that the DVD +-R's are much better at ripping the DVD's than your standard DVD ROM/ That is why I have 2 DVD R's in my system. Any cheap DVD R will rip better than a standard DVD Rom..

    Good luck and I hope this post is of help to you

    P.S. I know you aren't copying movies from a video store are you? ;-D
     
    Last edited: Nov 11, 2004
  5. Whisperer

    Whisperer Regular member

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    bbmayo
    That's true what you say about writers reading more accurately than rippers. I used to say that ripping with a writer would wear it out faster and that was why one buys a cheap ripper. but prices have dropped so drastically that that opinion isn't valid anymore.

    I wondered if a slower rip is a more accurate rip on a flawed disk? And if a burner, which rips slower than a ROM, were set to transfer data in PIO mode rather than Ultra DMA mode, would this increase the lasers accuracy in reading scratched disks? Probably not; transfer rates wouldn't have an effect on reading a disk....

    Best regards
    Whisperer
     
    Last edited: Nov 11, 2004
  6. colw

    colw Active member

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    Just my thoughts - in answer to your first question, the answer is yes - over many, many hundreds of burns, I have get to encounter a DVD that cannot be copied (exception has been a couple of faulty originals).

    In answer to your second question, the apparent appearance of the disk is not guarantee as to its encodability. I have copied many disks that appear scrached/damaged without problems. Occasionally I have came across a (almost perfert) disk in appearance and have had to clean it in order to encode.

    Third - good quality media is advisable - some brands such as Ritek and Verbatim are highly recommended by many member on these forums. I tend to use a less recommended brand (Laser) and have not experienced any problems to date either on computer or standalones. From perusing these forums, it would appear that some burners prefer particular types of media. I have a Pioneer burner and it tends to accept all that it thrown at it.

    Commercial DVD's are pressed - not burnt. I understand that some companies such as Sony/Columbia are attempting in include bad sectors on some of their more recent releases but these can be circumvented with programs such as DVD Decrypter.
     
  7. DogBomb

    DogBomb Regular member

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    If you've ever tried ripping a rental DVD that's been out for more than 6 months, you'll know that scratches severly affect ripping. Your drive will just appear hung as it tries to read the damaged area over and over again. I've also had some rips where a newer DVD burner could read a disk that an older on couldn't. You could force your burner to read slower, but this might not help. As for media, the source DVD has nothing to do with the blank media. Once the DVD is read/decrypted, it could be saved on your hard drive and burned later to any media.
     
  8. neos

    neos Member

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    Thank you all for your help and suggestions.

    Actually, I picked up on what Whisperer was saying about ripping the disc as soon as it had been cleaned. Instead of dishwashing liquid, I just eneded up using my regular disc cleaning solution, popped the DVD immediately in the drive, and..SUCCESS! I was surprisingly also able to burn onto my supposed crappy Memorex discs, which are one of the proverbial black sheep on this board!

    I have 3 follow up questions:

    1) Does the perceived quality of the DVD media play any part once a film HAS been burned succesfully? In other words, will a film burned onto a Memorex disc fail in any way compared to one burned onto a Maxell disc?

    2) bbmayo talked about using 2 separate drives: one to rip, the other to burn. I am using my TDK 880n to do both. Will this affect the lifespan of my laser? Do DVD-ROM's have a certain amount of reads/burns before they must be replaced?

    3) I recently purchased Maxell's DVD+R, which clearly states "Up to 4x" on the package. Yet, when I burned using Shrink, I was getting 6x throughout the burn! Is this common? Is the 4x speed on the package only an "average speed" used with "average" drives? Could these +R's be burned at 8x, for example?

    Thanks to this board, I will forever see toothpaste in a whole new light!

    Neos
     
  9. popai

    popai Member

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    Neos

    When the DVD says it is "Up to 4x" it is strongly recommended that you follow the instruction. The Recordable DVD´s are made of different materials and each one should be exposed to the laser by a different amount of time to make a proper recording. It is possible for you to record at faster speeds, but you increase the chance of getting a bad copy.
     
    Last edited: Nov 16, 2004

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