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ClonyXXL: 5 Skulls but no protection identified ...

Discussion in 'CD-R' started by tigre, Jul 6, 2003.

  1. tigre

    tigre Moderator Staff Member

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    Hi there!

    I want to back up a CD that obviously contains copy protection. I doubt anyone here has heard of it but anyway - It's called "mediscript 2. Staatsexamen" and contains a software for studying for a German medical exam. Creating a working image and use it with some image mounting software would be perfectly ok too.

    ClonyXXL (2.0.1.5) shows 5 skulls after scanning/monitoring but no copy-protection is identified. None of "TOC illegal, Overburn, ..., Bad sectors" is checked.

    I've tried this so far:

    1. Create an image using VirtualCD V 4. I've tried different options: combinations of read RAW sectors, read subchannel data, correct defect sectors, but installing the program from the resulting virtual CD was aborted always with some CRC mismatch error message.

    2. Create an image using CloneCD: I got an image that could be used after converting to iso and importing to VirutalCD to install the software but when running the software the CD check failed, the program asked for the serial number and restarted without working over and over again. (If I install the program from the original CD and run it afterwards the serial number isn't necessary).

    My drive is a Plextor CDRW 121032A BTW.

    Any ideas what settings with CloneCD or what other software could work are appreciated.

    Cheers tigre
     
    Last edited: Jul 6, 2003
  2. Shoey

    Shoey Guest

    Did you read the image using sub-q settings (data\audio)? If using CloneCD, try "amplify weak sectors" in the write process(read at 8x, write 4x), Try a program called YaTeS protection scanner and locate the program exe to where you installed Mediscript 2 Staatsexamen and see if YaTeS can identify the exact protection. Search Google or our main website for this handy tool.

    Shoey :)
     
  3. tigre

    tigre Moderator Staff Member

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    Thanks for the input, Shoey. I'll try what you've suggested as far as possible ... (The install process creates a start menu entry that is linked directly to a .exe on the CD and some .ini, .log and statistics files in a folder. So there's no .exe copied to HDD besides uninstallOU.exe and unwise.exe) ... and report the results.
     
  4. tigre

    tigre Moderator Staff Member

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    To answer your question:
    I have kept on trying since my 1st post. These settings I've used with CloneCD so far:

    1.
    [ ] Read Subchannel Data ...
    [ ] Regenerate Data Sectors

    2.
    [x] Read Subchannel Data ...
    [ ] Regenerate Data Sectors

    3.
    [ ] Read Subchannel Data ...
    [x] Regenerate Data Sectors

    Audio settings were left allone as the CD seems to contain no audio Session/Track. (Any faulty reasoning here?) So far I've only used max. reading speed as I wanted to check everything else before slowing down.

    The results of all three trials were the same (using CloneCD's image mounter): The software installed from the virtual CD without complaining but the CD check on 1st program startup took forever so I had to kill it manually using task manager.
     
  5. Shoey

    Shoey Guest

    Any luck with YaTeS Protection Scanner to determine a definate cd protection. Did you "amplify weak sectors" in the write process? You might need the aid of emulation m8. Try install from dvd\cd and cdrw?

    Shoey :)
     
  6. tigre

    tigre Moderator Staff Member

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    Update(s):

    [bold]First two questions:[/bold]

    1. Is using CloneCD's (or Alcohol120%'s) image mounter ok for testing or do I have to burn? I mean - If a mounted image doesn't work, can I be sure that a burned CD-R from the same image wouldn't work either?

    2. If I have to burn: Can I use CD-RWs? I'd like to avoid wasting too many CD-Rs.


    Results so far:

    1. YaTeS doesn't find a protection

    2. Swiss - Scout Easyscan doesn't either

    3. I've installed the patch w/o problems but I don't see any running sheep (CloneCD 4.2.0.2) in task bar. Only a double CD symbol.

    4. For the last CD-RW I burned for trying these settings were used (from .CCP file):
    [CloneCD ReadPrefs]
    ReadSubData=1
    RegenerateData=1
    ReadSubAudio=0
    AbortOnReadError=0
    FastErrorSkip=0
    ReadSpeedData=4
    ReadSpeedAudio=0
    IntelligentBadSectorScan=1
    SectorSkip=100
    NoErrorReport=0
    FirstSessionOnly=0
    AudioQuality=0
    [CloneCD WritePrefs]
    DontRepairSubchannelData=1
    AlwaysCloseLastSession=1
    AmplifyWeak=1
    WriteSpeed=4

    Result: The same again. Installation works but running the program not.

    5. Weird: CloneCD can erase my (Octron 4-10x) CD-RWs but can't write afterwards as it thinks the disks are not empty (same with Nero + EAC). I guess my Plextor 121032A and the media don't like each other ...

    6. Shoey: Is "sub-q settings" = "Read Subchannel Data" or is there another option I've missed or that is not accessible with my drive?

    7. I'm despaired and need something that helps me to forget so I think I'll try Alcohol next. ;)
     
    Last edited: Jul 9, 2003
  7. Shoey

    Shoey Guest

    tigre,
    I took some time to search the cd image you're trying to backuo (Mediscript 2 Staatsexman). I found one thread on a forum where one individual was attempting to backup a cd that is literally identical to what you're backing up. One mod "thought" the cd protection was Laserlock, another mod "thought" it might be Starforce v1\2. Both mods recommended using Alcohol 120% with different datatype settings.
    So basically this will be trial and error attempting to make a working backup (blah). First install Alcohol 120%>options>general>display>enable minimize Alcohol 120% window. Now go to reading and set data position measurement to high. Go to recording and enable overburn. Go to emulation and enable ignore media type and RMPS (Recordable Media Physical Signature). Go to extra emulation and enable Laserlock emulation. Go to virtual drives and se to whatever you desire. [bold] Delete your image you made with CloneCD [/bold]. Open Alcohol 120% and click image making wizard and choose the Starforce v1\2 datatype profile and read at 16x. Read the RMPS at 1x. After reading the image, [bold] minimize Alcohol 120% to system tray (startup) and go to your virtual stealth drive and mount the image and see if you can play(emulate) the backup m8. If this works you can burn to a cd-r or cd-rw (unformatted) [bold] but you need Alcohol 120% to play the backup [/bold]

    Shoey :) _X_X_X_X_X_[small]Certified Computer Technician
    http://www.afterdawn.com/general/legal.cfm
    Forum Rules^
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    [/small]
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 9, 2003
  8. tigre

    tigre Moderator Staff Member

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    Shoey, Thanks alot for the effort. I followed your instructions and it ... well sometimes ... works now. Let me describe it:

    When the program is "installed" from the original CD and started with the original CD in the drive The message "Please wait! CD is being checked..." appears (screenshots: http://www.geocities.com/t16re/stuff.html - sorry, inserting pics from geocities seems not to work) for a few seconds, then the program starts without asking for the registration code.

    Installation from the mounted image works fine as usual, but when starting the program "Please wait! CD is being checked..." appears for > 30 seconds, and "No valid CD found. Do you want to enter the Code again?" next. After entering the code "New CD code is stored. Please restart the program." appears.

    This is repeated a few times (1-4 so far), then the program decides to run. I've tried 3 times so far and I've got the impression that the number of unsuccessful trials increases.

    I'll try to find out if something is written in registry / files during unsuccessful trials using Total Uninstall and will report here.

    Does it make any sense to try Laserlock profile or other emulation options?
     
    Last edited: Jul 10, 2003
  9. tigre

    tigre Moderator Staff Member

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    Update:

    You said that one mod in another forum "thought" it could be Laserlock. From Alcohol120%'s Laserlock profile I assume that Laserlock uses bad sectors (or even rings of bad sectors). Well, that's the case with an 2 year old version of the same CD (this one even worked with VirtualCd V 3.x), but the new version I'm talking about doesn't seem to contain any bad sectors at all (e.g. ClonyXXL didn't report bad sectors).

    I think success isn't far away...
     
  10. tigre

    tigre Moderator Staff Member

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    Update2:

    I re-installed multiple times and tried to monitor installation and the program running with Total Uninstall. No useful results (e.g. registry changes that could be changed back manually ...). All in all I started the program ~ 100 times, ~ 10 times the program started successfully. It seems like Alcohol's emulation returns some kind of random data to the program when it checks the CD - sometimes it's satisfied, but in 90% of cases it's not. (Or the program checks different parts of the CD on each startup...) As this is still not as it should be I did some trial-and-error messing with Alcohol's options but no improvement so far. Any more ideas?
     
  11. Shoey

    Shoey Guest

    From the backup made with Alcohol 120% or the original?
    If so did you try the backup from your dvd\cd-rom? (enable all emulation)
    Try backing up to a cdrw?

    Shoey :)
     
  12. tigre

    tigre Moderator Staff Member

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    The program started 10 out of 100 successfully from Alcohol120% Virtual Drive, Alcohol running in the background. So I'll create a CD-R from it an will see if it works.

    __________________________

    Edit: [bold]IT WORKS!!![/bold]

    I've burned A CD-R with Alcohol120% (Starforce 1.x/2.x profile). Running Alcohol in background, all emulation options enabled (besides "Launch CD/DVD Mangager without "ignore ...") the program started successfully 4 times in a row so far. The CD check on startup takes still much longer than with the original CD but finally the program starts.

    Thanks alot!!!
     
    Last edited: Jul 11, 2003
  13. Shoey

    Shoey Guest

    [bold] IT WORKS!!! [/bold]

    Damn I'm good (just kiddin' tigre). I just had a "gut" feeling the cd protection was most likely Starforce v.1\2 or possibly 3. Another test you might wan't to do is use BlindWrite Suite 4.5, create a bwa file using both drives make a backup and see if you can play [bold] without [/bold] any emulation. if you wan't to give it a go let me know tigre. Glad to hear your backup is working m8!

    Shoey :)
     
  14. tigre

    tigre Moderator Staff Member

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    Damn, you're good! [​IMG]

    Sure, why not give blindread/write a try. I haven't used it for years so help is appreciated. I'll start right now.
     
  15. tigre

    tigre Moderator Staff Member

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    EDIT:
    I wanted to test if I could create a CD-R working without emulation using Blindwrite, but I've just realized that the CD created by Alcohol120% (needing emulation) in fact is named "NEEDS EMULATION" and contains a folder GK3_303, while the original CD is named GK3_303 itself. Erroreously I tried to create a blindwrite image from this CD-R created with Alcohol, but this didn't work. As I don't have the original with me this weekend I can't test the Blindwrite method right now.

    BTW: Meanwhile I've found a recommendation how to defeat Starforce3 using Blindwrite + Alcohol in german CloneCD forum:

    http://www.clonecd-forum.com/viewtopic.php?t=636 (German)

    I'll try that next (hopefully on monday).
     
    Last edited: Jul 12, 2003
  16. Shoey

    Shoey Guest

    tigre,
    You [bold] may not need the original [/bold] to make a working backup m8. Install BlindWrite 4.25 and dump the image of GK3_303 using these settings: extract sub codes (if your reader allows it)< your Plexy does. Image file
    output format BWT, BWI, BWA. Read nibble, enable adapt speed and read at 16x. When all finished launch the BWA Builder and create your own bwa file. Read the image at 1x and when all done [bold] rename the BWA file GK3_303 [/bold]. Save that file [bold] inside the folder [/bold] to where you saved the image of GK3_303 . Now open BlindWrtite 4.25 and start CD writing wizard> enable bwa file and burn DAO pw at 4x and try to play the backup in both drives m8(without any emulation that is). Good luck!

    [bold]BlindWrite 4.25[/bold]:http://club.cdfreaks.com/showthread.php?s=64a11225d9b8d0c8cefbe64cb2c3f1f9&threadid=61418
    [bold]Mediscript thread[/bold]:http://club.cdfreaks.com/showthread.php?s=64a11225d9b8d0c8cefbe64cb2c3f1f9&threadid=71697&highlight=mediscript

    Shoey :)_____X_X_X_X_X_[small]Certified Computer Technician
    http://www.afterdawn.com/general/legal.cfm
    Forum Rules^
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    CPU: AthlonXP Barton 2.5
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    [/small]
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 12, 2003
  17. tigre

    tigre Moderator Staff Member

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    I did it ex-act-ly as described, using the C2H5OH120% emulated CD-R as source but the resulting CD-RW didn't work. Same when using a BWA converted from C2H5OH120% MDS. I'll try with the original as source tomorrow.
     
  18. Shoey

    Shoey Guest

    Using the "modified" backup (mds file added or converted to bwa file) then burned won't work tigre. We need the original cd, then bwa file creation, then burn. You create 2 backups m8, a "install disc" (no bwa file) and a "play disc" (bwa file). After making the backups you use the "install disc" to install (obviously), then hopefully your backup "play disc" will launch from either your dvd\cd-rom or burner.
    Uninstall Alcohol 120% for your BlindWrite Suite backup testing.

    Shoey :)

     
  19. tigre

    tigre Moderator Staff Member

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    Nope. It doesn't work reliably.

    I did it (almost) as you described.
    "Almost" because installing never has been a problem (and the files/registry settings found by Total Uninstall were the same, no matter which CD/CD-R(W)/virtual drive I used for installing). So I didn't create an extra installation CD without BWA file. The rest I did as you told me.

    The result is the same as using Alcohol Virtual Drive + Alcohol's image. In a few cases starting the program works, in most cases it doesn't.

    Q1: Does it really make a difference to use an extra install CD without BWA? - Why?

    Q2: What about "Authorize the use of alternative read method" setting. Should I try?

    Q3: About MDA/BWS files: I've created 3 different files (all from original CD). One with Alcohol 120%, one with BW4.2.5, one with BW(newest version). All lines are parallel and bend (0/40; 50k/30; 100k/25; 150k/23; 200k/20.5 ... - <Sector>/<Linear density>); but
    - the BW lines contain 1 or 2 small "drop down" peaks, with "linear density" lowered by ~10, but the peaks of both BW versions don't match, they seem to be at random positions.
    - When zooming in the alcohol line looks smoothed, the BW lines do a random "zig-zag movement" arround the alcohol line.
    Should I re-try with other BWA/MDS files/settings?

    Q4: Is it a problem to use erases CD-RWs for this or are "fresh" media necessary?

    Q5: Should I try the newest version of BW additionally?

    Q6: Does trying DAO Pq writing mode make any sense?_X_X_X_X_X_[small]AFTERDAWN FORUM RULES: http://forums.afterdawn.com/thread_view.cfm/2487[/small]
     
    Last edited: Jul 15, 2003
  20. Shoey

    Shoey Guest

    Yes it does simply because we're tyring the SecuROM 4.8.x backup method and many dvd\cd-roms& burners can't bypass the Twinsector cd scheme of the SecuROM cd protection but this doesn't apply to you m8. So one is advised to create an "install disc" (no bwa file) and an "play disc" (bwa file). This method is also endorsed by the BlindWrite Suite team.

    This method is the opposite of reading sub-q channel (data\audio) and I don't believe trying this method will work for what you're attempting to backup.

    I've had my best luck with the BWA Builder (bwa file) and BlindWrite Suite 4.25 (backing up SecuROM 4.8.x). I recently tried the Twin Creator (created by Alcohol 120% Team) that is included in Alcoholer 4.x. I had nightmares and gave up on my 4th attempt. Not every bwa, mda file will work and that is why i advised early on to create 2 bwa files, 1 with your Plexy and 1 with your dvd\cd-rom. if you're going to retry, my advise is to stick with BlindWrite Suite 4.25 and try reading the original cd using the BAW Builder reading at 1x.

    I don't use cdrw's so I honestly don't have a rock solid "right" answer. I read at forums not to copy beyond 3 "formats", simply toss that pne in da trash can and grab ye another...?

    No it doesn't but I believe it is the equivilent of RAO DAO. The pw= patin coffin.

    Shoey :)







     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 15, 2003

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