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Converting AVI-MPEG4v1 (or VOB) to AVI-Cinepak HELP!!

Discussion in 'Video - Software discussion' started by JAdmiral, Nov 1, 2003.

  1. JAdmiral

    JAdmiral Member

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    I have a 270MB VOB file that I ripped. I then converted it with DVD2AVI, then used TMPGEnc to compress it down to a 47MB file. PERFECT! Except someo f the computers that this file will play on are a little old, and I need to make sure they'll play. So I guess I have to use the CINEPAK codec, right?

    Anytime I try to convert it to CINEPAK (using 1st Video Converter), it comes out over 650MB! I NEED this file to be under 48mb! Anytime I reduce the compression quality or framerate on the codec, the settings don't seem to "stick".

    Can someone tell me what I need to do? Conversely, if there's someone out there that can do this for me, that'd be great, too (tho I'd prefer to know how to do it myself).

    Please help! Thanks.
     
  2. Praetor

    Praetor Moderator Staff Member

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    Why on EARTH would you use CinePak???? Its ancient, inefficient and incresdibly outdated. Use DivX/XviD dude and dont forget to compress the audio too_X_X_X_X_X_[small]ASUS A7V8X-X, AMD2500+
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    Last edited: Nov 1, 2003
  3. JAdmiral

    JAdmiral Member

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    I want to use Cinepak because this is going to be reproduced on business card CDs, and handed out at trade shows. Not everyone has the divx or xvid codec (I agree, they're superior), and I want to make sure the cd plays the first time, on every computer.

    My secretary has a two year old Dell, and it didn't play on her's.

    Do you have a solution to my original question?
     
  4. Minion

    Minion Senior member

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    If you want it to Play on every PC the Cinepac isn"t really the way to go because Cinepac in a Low Compression format so even 10 seconds of Video could easilly be over 20-50mb and Not every one has the cinepac codec, I personally deleted it from My system because it is a Useless codec...If the File will play on Mostly PC"s then you should maybe go for Microsoft Mpeg-4 because Most everyone who has media player can play this format or I would go with WMV which will produce fair Quality and have very small file sizes and be able to be played on most all Windows based systems...
     
    Last edited: Nov 3, 2003
  5. Praetor

    Praetor Moderator Staff Member

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    Or even Indeo :p_X_X_X_X_X_[small]ASUS A7V8X-X, AMD2500+
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    Last edited: Nov 3, 2003
  6. JAdmiral

    JAdmiral Member

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    I still want to use Cinepak because of the following info:

    http://www.mediachance.com/faqvideo1.htm

    According to that link, and the conclusion at the bottom of the page, if I want an AVI to play on any PC, I need to use Cinepak. So, my question still stands. I need to be able to get the 250mb VOB down to about 48MB AVI-Cinepak codec. Any suggestions on how I can do it, or any person or business you know where I can get it done?

    Much obliged...
     
  7. Minion

    Minion Senior member

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    You can not compress your 250mb VOB File down to 47mb with Cinepac unless Maybe you did it is Black and white at 80+60 at 5FPS...Cinepac is a Lower Compression Method than Mpeg2/Vob so it is Impossible to Compress something to a 1:15 Ratio with a Codec that doesn"t have a Compression Ratio that high...So if you encode your Vob file to Cinepac the Cinepac File will be Less compressed than the VOB file is but will Look a Lot Worse...As Long as the Person who it watching the Movie has Windows Media Player installed (which is everyone who has a windows Based system) then you can use Mpeg-1 or ASF/WMV as the Format for your File and it will Play on all Windows Based PC"s...Or you wanted to use a Different codec you could allways Distribute the Codec with the Movie on CD...Well Good Luck...Cheers
     
  8. JAdmiral

    JAdmiral Member

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    When you say Mpeg-1, do you mean MPEG 4-V1, or what's described in DVD3AVI as Microsoft Video 1?

    Thanks...
     
  9. Minion

    Minion Senior member

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    No...I mean Mpeg1 what is used in VCD"s and a Lot of Internet streaming...
    Pretty much any PC that has Media Player installed on it will be able to play Mpeg1 files, as Media Player comes with a Mpeg1 decoder accept for with Win 95 which I don"t think anyone uses any more...
    You are going to have to use a Format that uses extremely High compression to get the File size you want and None of the Old windows codecs produced compression anywere near what you are looking for....Cheers
     
  10. Praetor

    Praetor Moderator Staff Member

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    That "guide" is okay but lacking plenty... wait a sec... now as i read this crap realize the silliness of it all .... now for a thorough point-by-point (its out of order, i didnt know what to correct first) dissection of their "guide":

    ===================
    1. An absolutely ludicrous requirement... everyone has at least a pentim and even 12 years ago... AVI files ran perfectly fine on 486s letalone "pentiums" or "fast pentiums"

    Oh god for the full length dissertaion visit http://forums.afterdawn.com/thread_view.cfm/53960

    Although technically true, for the majority of readers that refer to this kind of guide, this definition is decieving. Yes MPEG2 is used for DVD but the bitrate is enormous in order to provide that kind of quality. When most people refer to MPEG2 they think of SVCDs (which are encoded using, you guessed it, MPEG2)

    We no longer live in the stone age. Damn near EVERYONE can play MPEG2s... heck think about it... a standalone dvd player can handle it... and that surely doesnt have more power than a computer

    This has yet to be confirmed but assume that it is true for argument sake. (1) If, say, ten years from now, MS decides to start suing for copyright infringement -- which they have had 5 years at least to do so -- are they going to sue damn near every soul on the planet because there are a CRAPLOAD of people with DivX movies. (2) DivX is not property of Microsoft. (3) XviD is completely open source, better than DivX and will annihilate most codecs used for AVIs (except for DivX and Huffyuv of course)

    Again... Technically right but feasibly and practically, WRONG. DivX and XviD (and more sore for DivX) are damn near playable on any computer on this planet.

    If i could, i would slap the poor soul who wrote that .. of course unless the website hasnt been updated for at least 6 years. Although correct by technicality, unless you are trying to encode black and white 20x20 pixel movies, this codec is WORTHLESS.

    Well anyone who has a computer since like 1995 has MPEG1 support as well as Indeo3.2 support and stuffos like that.

    Streaming yes. Quality no. Of course the quality may be better than something like Indeo or Cinepak but thats like saying a Ferrari is a better car than a.... um..... rock.

    - Most 386s didnt HAVE CDROMS
    - CDROMs only became prevelent with the 486 and then only with technie people. For the average joe, CDROMS existed from Pentium onwards
    - 386 is what.... circa 1983? Nuff said

    Very true... the codec was designed to give quality based on 8bit color, 50hz refresh on 10inch screens. What did you expect? To need a SPARC (high end server)?

    Again, correct by technicality. Then of course a thoroughly useless point given that it is now the year.... 2003.

    I really REALLY have to slap this poor fool. Consider http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=kb;en-us;327979&Product=winxp ... Windows XP does not COME with Indeo anything.

    Not neccesarily true.

    This calls for slappage.
    - There is no such thing as a "standard" AVI
    - MPEGs do NOT have more quality than the "standard" AVI
    - True AVIs use CODECS... wtf does this dude thing MPEGs use?
    - An "AVI" encoded to MPEG.. is an MPEG

    - DivX is free download
    - XviD is free period
    - Both will annihilate Cinepak for quality and size

    Although its a bit recent for this kinda of outdatedness... i suppose its an acceptable excuse.
    ===================

    Now that the guide has been rendered useless... well... not rendered useless.. proven useless:

    - Then that means the computer techie responsible for that computer either (a) decided that she wouldnt ever be watching movies or (b) failed to setup the computer properly.
    - If you are going to hand out a movie at a tradeshow, the people who will be taking those CDs will be able to play DivX/XviD (divx more likely)
    - If you hand someone at a tradeshow a movie encoded with Cinepak, your product will be laughed at and the cd will be archived or tossed -- i would. This may be a harsh statement but people are affected by first impressions. A low quality image is not going to impress people.

    Okay back to your problem:
    1. DivX/XviD and to a degree Huffyuv ... are your only chance in hell of getting any quality and compression of that magnitude.
    2. Cincepak is poor quality and outdated. Nuff said
    3. If you need to create a small runtime file that is autoexecuted upon installation and offers to install the approrpirate codec/inform the user that the codec is required. Or simply stamp it on the cd. Or add a readme file.
    4. Again i reiterate, there isnt a chance in hell of getting a 250MB VOB down to 48MB -- not unless you throw quality and first impressions WAY out of the window.

    Now... after all that and you still insist on Cinepak:
    1. Open VirtualDub. Load the movie
    2. Video --> Fast Recompresss
    3. Video --> Comrpession --> Select Cinepak and set the quality
    4. Audio --> Full Processing Mode
    5. Audio --> Compression --> MP3 --> Set bitrate

    Oh wait... can every single computer on the planet play MP3? Nope. Oh dear lol. Oh and MP3s use CPU power. Dude there comes a point where you balance feasility and technicalities. Oh and if you were thinking of not using audio compression -- forget making the 48MB marker cuz WAV is huge.

    6. File --> Save as AVI --> Give it a name
    7. Play the file and realize how low quality it is and use the DivX/XviD codecs.

    Hehe apologies for the sarcasam... its just that the 'guide' is so ... wrong. :)_

    BTW, AVI-MPEG4v1 is not the same thing as VOB._X_X_X_X_X_[small]ASUS A7V8X-X, AMD2500+
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    Last edited: Nov 13, 2003
  11. ProteusUK

    ProteusUK Guest

    Some great words of wisdom in this thread regarding the use of the Cinepak codec. It really is a useless.
    However the use of Divx can not be an alternative for this guys use. Please remember that the Divx licence only allows the use of it for personal use. If you are going to distribute the divx file in any commercial media , this includes CD_Business cards you will have to purchase a commercial distribution licence from DivX. If you dont, you will risk legal action. IF THEY FIND OUT ;)
    Any other codec you use will invariably mean distribution of its install file on your business card which will eat up your valuable space on the card.
    I would use Mpg1 , nearly all pc gfx cards have the capability of playing back mpg1 format as standard and so will enable your video to be played by the widest possible pc audience.
    As for its quality well , thats for you to decide upon.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 14, 2003
  12. Praetor

    Praetor Moderator Staff Member

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    1. He can always buy the professional license if absolutely neccessary
    2. I wouldnt use DivX anyways... XviD is far superior... and free (and if you include it on the CD then no codec issues).
     
  13. JAdmiral

    JAdmiral Member

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    Wow, thanks Praetor for your extensive destruction of what Mediachance had posted!! I'm going to try some of your tips.

    I'll try a few different codecs, including cinepak, and see if I can get it that small. Yes, I'll have to reduce quality of the movie, but that's ok for what I want to use it for.

    If it works the way I want, and plays on any computer I try it on, then I owe you big!
     
  14. JAdmiral

    JAdmiral Member

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    One more question... NO program that I have (DVD2AVI, VirtualDub, 1stVideoConverter, etc.) has the MPEG1 compression option!! I see Indeo, Cinepac, divx, xvid, and countless others...

    Am I doing something wrong? Jesus, I feel like a frickin idiot on this shit...
     
  15. Praetor

    Praetor Moderator Staff Member

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    MPEG1 is... well... an MPEG codec... and requires an MPEG encoder -- not an AVI encoder hehe. Check out TMPEnc. If you want small, i wouldnt reccomend you make a VCD/SVCD but rather use the "Output to MPEG" option to specify the bitrate and such. Note that MPEGs are MUCH MUCH more wasteful on space compared to AVIs (and dont provide nearly the same quality).

    BTW If you need me to annihilate another "guide" lemme know ;-)
     
  16. Praetor

    Praetor Moderator Staff Member

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    JAdmiral: it's been awhile but i just remembered :p

    You can always use QuickTime, its fairly ubiquituous although probably not nice on the filesize which leads me to reccommend Bink/Smacker (i.e., the codec that they use for video game cutscenes). The nice thing about Bink/Smacker files is that you can encode them to EXEs and have the movie fire up right away using the autorun commands.

    Hope that helps :)
     

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