Copy protected audio CDs

RCBabcock,

You described the Fair Use act, a lot better than I did. Thank You,

As to the copy of Vinyl, and even CDs in the US onto Audio CDs, I think we are legally fine. I'm 47 years old, grew up with pot, the Seventies, and DISCO. I have no problems making copies as I described above. But I do have to side on the record industies side as to downloading and sharing music.

Its illegal. PERIOD. Just because it can be done, does not make it legal.

Say if I build a Shed in the back yard, and my neigbor likes my shed, I would be happy to build him a shed for the price of the shed. If someone else sees the shed and comments to him, and he turns this person onto me, I would build him a shed, and probably build a little profit into for my time and effort.

But what if my neigbors friend likes the shed, but just decides to come over during the night and take mine, because its not locked down, and its availble (in his eyes) for the taking.

Thats stealing. and I don't have a copyright on my shed, so how can those who download music via the net possibly defend their actions. Considering the music does have a copyright

They are sharing a shed (Music) over the net with others who have not paid for it.

Now buying music over the net is totally different. and the early signs are indicating that it is eating into the illegal file sharing activities.

Robert

 

Rob

your talking of a physical item being removed from your posession

we are talking a copy

if your neighbours friend built a shed exactly the same as yours - is that stealing the shed ? no

if your neighbours friend built a shed like yours, liked it so much, he then went out and bought a lot more sheds is that a bad thing ?

people are sharing these "sheds" on the internet after they have paid for it - it seems these people dont mind that they pay for something and then people dont have too

its the common foundation of sharing - opposite to which comes greed in my opinion

 

EsirnuS,

I knew I should have explained a little more in detail.

OK, lets say, I copyrighted my shed, because my shed was special and it was going to save the free world. And I wanted the protect my investment in the development and manufacture of that shed, and maybe make a litte profit on it. I still owned all the manufacturing lisc. for the shed. So no one else could make it, copy it, or use the same design.

Would not I call the cops when I saw the same shed in someone elses yard. Because they snuck into my yard and copied the shed.

I know a shed was a bad example.

I'm not an artist of any kind, and ya know, I would want my music spread to as many people as possible. However, If I am a successful artist, I more than likely have professional backing by a record company. This record company spending bucks to produce, record, and dist. my music. Back in the days of Vinyl, I didn't really care if folks made a cassette copy of my hard earned product, because I knew the Vinyl wears out, and the copy of the hit is fine, because back in those days, If I got a comp. Cassette and I liked it, it would cause me to go out and purchase hard product from my local record store. (and I could not put it on a medium that millions of people all over the world could copy it).

In todays time, once ONE CD is released someone out there does purchase it, but transfers it to MP3 and uploads it to the internet. BAM, instead of selling 500,000 CDs, I only sell 20,000. Thats just wrong, even if those artists and record companies have tons of money already. Its wrong, its stealing.

This is a really tough subject, and I fear folks in Washington who have know idea what technology is (other than to drop bombs on folks) will be making laws that will affect this.

It sounds like I am a RIAA employee, but I am not, I do agree that they are going a little far in attempting to make the Fair Use policy ineffective, but they know they have to shoot at the moon, and maybe they will hit the hubble in the process.

Robert

 

Robert

thanks for the clarification of your point - in many ways i agree with you. I am in no way defending my actions with the "record companies and artists are loaded anyway" cop out. Far from it in fact

I myself AM a recording artist, I record music ultimatley because of my love for all music. I am at my happiest when involved in it, be that listening, writing songs, recording, producing music for others. Its this love of music that allows me to put my music on CD's and sell them at an almost cost price (cd/printing/postage) from my website - i also offer mp3 downloads to people who come to my website - these are album tracks, some live performances. People are welcome to download these for nothing. If they are enjoying my music an iota of how much i enjoyed producing it then thats reward enough for me.

But i do not claim to make a living from music. and i do not denounce the right of record companies or artists making a living from their music, their talent, from their service.

It does all boil down to money. even yourself, you said "and maybe make a litte profit on it" which you are entitled to do. and when things are ruled by money there is always going to be those who appose it, those who rebel against it, and those who dont give a $*!t.

again i will say, i make no allowances for my downloading music illegally - i would ask the rest of you participating in this discussion to do the same. we are all doing something illegal, be it downlaoding, copying, transfering to different media. There is none "more illegal than the other" so please dont make allowances for your actions against mine.

Mr Wilkes has built a legitimate business around an illegal act (no offense intended) and now quite possibly will suffer the same legal implications as a person with a computer making multiple CD copies of downloaded/ripped MP3s to sell at the market or boot sale. in both cases, making money from such processes. Herded along with Mr wilkes and the cd pirate will be my 7 year old neice who records the sunday afternoon chart show on her tape recorder, the single mother at number 41 who recorded the cd's she got for christmas to play in the car, the radio presenters who now use a lot of MP3s instead of having numerous cd's that will eventually start skipping after extensive use, and lastly, the teenager who has just passed his driving test and is now playing his music so loudly in his car that it becomes an illegal public broadcast of copyrighted material.

There is an immense area to cover, how will they differentiate the master criminals from the unknowing?
There is no excuse, and i make none for my actions. This forum itself revolves around the software and hardware that allows us to break the law.
i have learnt many things from the people in this forum, i do not wish to see anyone affected by these hastily thrown together laws - especially when the internet itself is a global phenominon and yet we still see individual governments creating individual laws all of which appear to be different.

 

EsirnuS - no offence taken. It is not our core business, but an aside - albeit a profitable one. My argument in favour of what we do is that if the Genuine CD's were available then our customers would buy them as we are not cheap - far from it!

I just do not understand why I am being hassled for offering a restoration service. I am suffering because of Piracy. All our gear & software is legitimate, everything we do is legitimate (or at least, it was!)
and yet the Pie Rats are, as usual, getting away with it.

 

Wilkes,

i do understand you predicament about being tarred with the same brush as the "intentional criminal" i use that term loosely to describe those that download/copy/pirate music en masse

it seems that many people have many different views as to what should be allowed and to what shouldnt be allowed. Somewhere back in this discussion somebody justified their backing up of cd's but called downlaoding "stealing". The point i am trying to make here is that there is no difference - its ALL illegal. There is no one copyright breach less illegal than the rest. However, i would like to think that the enforcers of these laws will know where to draw the line. This could all get totally out of hand.

I doubt we will see the voking of all cdrw/dvdrw drives from PC's, the removal of all blank copying media from the shelves, the prosicution of all the program writers who design these programs we all use. in fact i doubt they can infringe such behaviour based on the fact you will be putting companies out of business.

the recording industry is taking a bullies role in frightening and intimidating people which will eventually back fire.

 

Tell me about it!
As far as companies who manufacture stuff goes, they will never be sued as the argument goes along the lines of "there is a possible legal use for the equipment". As far as withdrawing CD-R/W etc, yamaha already have, and they cite the current legal situation!
What will probably happen is all devices capable of RAW mode operation will be banned. In the UK, they already are illegal, as are DAT recorders with a user settable SCMS flag. Also now illegal are "devices or technologies capable of circumventing copy protection measures". The list goes on, and the UK government is about to empower the Patent Office with the authority to persue their own cases & remedies, effectively putting law enforcement into the hands of Patent & copyright lawyers! It's a joke, it really is. The man who once said "the price of freedom is eternal vigilance" certainly knew what he was talking about.
Send me your email address, and I'll send you copies of the new law as of 31/10/2003 and the EUCD proposals.
It makes for very scary reading.

 

Consider yourself PM'd

i'd like a closer look at those laws

not before bed tho i imagine - think it will be too scary

I will continue to operate with the caution i always have done and wait to hear if i am one of the unlucky ones who P!$$£d off a lawyer once and will now pay the price.

a criminal as i am in the eyes of the law - surely i am but a small player in the game and will avoid being hunted down by the SAS of copyright protection

 

OK. Is there a software that can burn copy protected cds? I kinda skiped all of the other posts because that laws and stuff and stuff. I didn't want to read it. My friend has this cd from Japan, I think. She doesn't want anything to happen to it because it costs like $50 and it took two months to ship. So anyways, is it possible to make a backup?

Thanks