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Dark Side of the Moon SACD problem? Please help..

Discussion in 'High resolution audio' started by 5882300, Jan 16, 2008.

  1. 5882300

    5882300 Member

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    I'm really hoping that someone who owns this disc can help me out. It's the anniversary re-issue hybrid disc remixed by Guthrie.

    I'm playing this on my ps3. My problem is the track "Money." I was expecting the ambient noise at the beginning -- the clinking clanging of cash register doors & coins to bounce from channel to channel -- but instead it seems to me that some of the audio is cut. There's the cash register door, a pause, and then the clanging of coins, another pause -- and then the door again. It sounds like channels are missing. but then the song kicks in and everything else is playing in surround. All the speakers play fine & I've never had this issue with other SACD's...

    This is the receiver I have, if it matters : Pioneer VSX-917V-K

    Can someone tell me if this is just how the song is mixed, or do I need to change the settings?

    Thanks in advance...
     
  2. Swampyjox

    Swampyjox Member

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    My GOD!!!
    SAME DISK SAME DAY SAME CONSOLE, I seem to be only getting 2ch audio though. Using Yamaha VRX461. And yes I have tried the multi ch option with optical. Think its the rec???

    JUST WANT TO HEAR GREAT GIG...
     
  3. 5882300

    5882300 Member

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    Damn! I wish you were getting the multichannel!

    There are three versions on the disc...the regular cd version, 2 channel super audio & multichannel super audio. You should at least be able to see the multichannel version on your ps3 -- although depending on your receiver you may not be able to play it. I know I was having issues getting SACD to play before I bought this receiver.

    I really have to wonder if my problem is actually the recording -- because "Time" and everything else plays fine.

    And yeah, Great Gig is awesome... it's my favorite track on the album... :)
     
  4. 5882300

    5882300 Member

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    Okay, so since I'm trying to listen to this on my ps3 I posted a similar thread on a gaming forum. After all the usual jackasses responded with useless sarcasm, one guy finally answered saying I needed to switch my receiver to DTS.

    Alright -- well -- the thing is I can't switch it to DTS. My receiver does in fact do DTS decoding, but it switches over automatically based on the input it's receiving. I can switch it to Dolby Digital and Pro Logic II and NEO 6, but not DTS. And so I am still missing some of the ambient noise at the beginning. Only the front channels play, even though the rest of the plays just fine out of all channels... and not because I'm doing forced surround...

    So, nowhere on the SACD does it say DTS, it only says 5.1 audio. For the life of me -- I can't figure out why this isn't working...
     
  5. JVC

    JVC Active member

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    If the receiver is setup to use "digital auto" or "auto", it should automatically choose DTS, only if there's no DD track. If there's a DD track, that is the one that will be detected. You have to manually choose a DTS track, when a DD track is present. By manually choose, I mean in the disc's menus.

    If no DD track is present, and it still doesn't detect the DTS track, the receiver may not be set to "auto" (does it go to DD, when a movie is in?). Your manual will tell you how to set it to "auto", if you need to.

    Also, see answer to other question, in this forum........
     
  6. 5882300

    5882300 Member

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    Thank you for responding -- to both of my threads....

    No, my receiver doesn't automatically detect DTS. I can set it to Neo 6 (which is some sort of DTS proprietary type of DTS)(although it is clearly different because there is a separate DTS light that goes on when I'm watching a dvd that features DTS), Pro-Logic and Dolby Digital ... and none of them solve the problem. And on the ps3's menu the track is only listed as multichannel.
     
  7. david66

    david66 Regular member

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    In order to listen to SACD Multichannel your receiver MUST have 5 analog
    inputs marked L C R and R&L surround the opitical out put will not give
    you SACD multichannel
     
  8. 5882300

    5882300 Member

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    ^^^ He's right -- in my case anyway. My receiver won't output SACD audio through HDMI. My receiver does have separate inputs for multichannel, but there's not a cable compatible with the ps3 (that I know of).
     
  9. prefectus

    prefectus Member

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    I have the same problem, I have PS3 connected with HDMI to ONKYO 605. My PS3 firmware version is 2.20. I have listened SACD in "multichannel" listening mode - Pink Floyd "Dark side of the moon" and it worked fine for several times. Suddenly, when I was skiping to another song, I have heard a short sound (sounds like "pyk") and there was no sound from my front speakers. Problem is with "multichannel" listening mode, it works fine in "direct" or "pure audio" modes. The same problem is with standard CD, when I set in "settings"/Audio CD Output Frequency" value: 44.1 / 88.2 / 176.4 kHz.

    Anybody can help me??

    I think it's a general PS3 problem:

    http://community.eu.playstation.com/showthread.php?t=182990
    http://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread.php?p=776088
     
  10. wilkes

    wilkes Regular member

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    Remember that despite what you may read, a PS3 is first & foremost a games console.
    It may be SACD compatible, and it may be Blu Ray compatible, but it is still a games machine, not a high end player.

    You will be far better off getting a true Universal player, and get both DVD-A/SACD/DTS/DVD-V etc support all in one.
    Keep the PS3 for playing games on.
     
  11. bobchew

    bobchew Member

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    WELL SINCE I HAVE THIS DISC THIS SACD DARK SIDE OF THE MOON BY THE PINK FLOYD ROCK GROUP AND SINCE I HAVE CONVERTED IT INTO A DVD AUDIO DISC OF WHICH CAN BE PLAYED ON A PC USING S/W THAT PLAYS DVD AUDIO DISCS OR ALTERNATIVLEY SINCE I ALSO HAVE CONVERTED IT TO WMA PRO 6 CHANNEL LOSSY AND LOSSLESS IN 96/24 OF WHICH CAN BE PLAYED IN WM PLAYER..THEN OLD SON YOU CAN HEAR FOR YOURSELF....RATHER THAN ME TELL YOU...JUST ASK NICELY...
     
  12. bobchew

    bobchew Member

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    ok its a manual job-- (1) find a suitable SACD player then using leads and take the Front Left and Right outputs in the line in. do same with centre/sub/ also rear L and R by then you will have re record the thing using a decent audio multitrack recorder...that way you will have 3 stereo pairs files..now you have to get them all in synch.if the app ha a remove silence option that will help..i press record just as the sacd disc slides in.so you get silence before the audio kicks in..so remove silence at the front of all 3 stereo pair files that way they should all line up in synch..when happy save out either as wma pro lossy or lossless or as six mono files....i tend to record at 96/24 but 48/24 48/16 whatever you feel is best..so using media player you can playback the wma pro files in 5.1 or encode the 6 monos into mlp amnd make a nice dvd audio out of it.
     
  13. 5882300

    5882300 Member

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    Well, I sent my Pioneer back and got the Yamaha 661. Problem solved.
     
  14. bobchew

    bobchew Member

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    well this is a follow up to SACD conversion....first I had the idea to oversample this time.i got the idea from buying a double sided dvd audio which had 192Khz 24bit stereo on one side and a 96khz 24bit downsample from the 192khz 24bit. just to see if it made any difference...well the by product of this was something i hadnt bargained for...i cant save the 192 as wma as its max is 96khz 24bit..it will save wav or 6 mono wavs..but no mlp encoder i think will touch it.as it limit as yet is still 96/24 but anyway i saved it as 6 channel 192/24 wav...i had done this before but nothing would play it..but this evening i opened it with the latest vlc media player. and bugger me it played ok!! i even checked the specs -there it was 192khz 24bit 6 channel uncompressed wav file coming out my 6 speakers...so this now goes past standard DVD Audio..we are now in HD audio league...on a par to dts hd true hd area. only plays on pc atm..and since this was a test...5 mins filesize was just over 1gb so work that out 10mins=2gb 15=3gb and so on my guess is that a dual layer may cover 30-40 mins....so make sure you have LOTS OF DRIVE SPACE!!!....theres a nasty bug with audition some recordings get corrupted after drift correction and on playback sound like a windstorm..also when reloading a wma or wav or aiff it will truncate it badly..i've had to use another recorder...anyone else tried this?.
    any other players can play this? anyone know?..anyone got soundcard that can record 384Khz? 24bit in 6 channel? filesize? dont ask it will be mad....all i need now is bats hearing to appreciate it...
     
  15. wilkes

    wilkes Regular member

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    The reason for using ultra-high sample rates is nothing at all to do with frequency response.
    It is to do with reducing the number of quantization steps instead, resulting in fewer rounding errors.
    SACD is utterly pointless transferred at anything above 48KHz though.
    If you run in an SACD at 24/96, all there is above 23KHz is noise, and lots of it. WHy else do you think there are options in SACD players to reduce the response to cut off anything above 50Hz (sample rate) or 25KHz (actual reproduced audio rate).
    There is no available loudspeakers that can reproduce anything recorded at 192, as I know of no monitors whatsoever that can output anything above a maximum of 48KHz. There are no monitors that output aboove this, most cut off at 20KHz.
    There are no microphones that record at up to 192 either.
    SACD is a con. There is NO "massive bandwidth equivalent to 384KHz", it is a lie.
     
  16. bobchew

    bobchew Member

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    I knew I was tempting fate -coming back here....well I you feel so strongly why don't you phone up Sony and Philips and tell them that are con artists? and then tell the rest of the world and make sure you have enough money to back you when they sue you...I read several articles that reported that is some cases they couldn't tell the difference between a 96/24 audio and SACD...and since they went to the trouble or record at 2.8224 Mhz I rather think they had a point to it after all that effort..also I have just bought a DVD Audio disc sampled/recorded at 192Khz and do you know what? I can hear the difference and what's more my funny little speakers seem to handle it just fine..why you are doing that, also contact DTS and slag off DTS MASTER AUDIO TOO since that spec is 192Kkz 24bit uncompressed 6 channel.. I work with people in movie /audio business and I tend to listen to people who know what they are talking about as its their profession. well known conductors and artists swear by 96/24 and SACD so these people are talking crap? I suggest you go and play with your mp3 player and give us a break...
     
  17. ardismm

    ardismm Member

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    hey..i actually have the same problem...my yamaha rx-v530 will play all the parts to the intro of "money" BUT only in 6 channel mode...once i switch it off to DSP mode which adds effects and gives you choices of surround modes, i only get about half of the mix! i know SACD only outputs through the 6 RCA jacks for 5.1 (not the optical or coaxial digital outputs) just thought it would be possible to use DSP with the SACD. otherwise, the sound is fairly flat with little LFE. anyone know of a reciever that will allow processing of multi-channel SACD?
     
  18. bobchew

    bobchew Member

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    you could do a conversion job as i did and listen to it as a file or downsample to dts format or convert to dvd audio disc...and pay it abck on your deck or on pc...i have a sacd desck but no amp as yet so thats how get round it..if in doubt re rerecord it FL FR. CEN LFE,LS RS....3 stereo pairs...actuallIm not sure if 'dark side' has an LFE channel...that what cuasee this confusion not all SACD'S are 5.1 6 channel....some are 4 channel some 3 chennel, even just two.so Im wondering if that what the problem is..some are just plain 5.0.....but ive got this disk -had it for years heard it..'on the run sounds great' the cash registers do what you think they would but not on the scale you would imagine...if in doubt you can always download the wma file i made from it..
     
  19. wilkes

    wilkes Regular member

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    PS3 are a PAIN in the REAR.
    Depending on what model you have, SACD support was removed in later models, so you may well only be getting the CD Redbook section and not the SACD surround Multichannel.

    Early models have proper SACD support, but with each "new" and "updated" PS3 model, Sony have actually removed features.
    One was removal of SACD, another was removal of PS2 support, then software emulation got put back - frankly, it's a mess.
    If you are not hearing things correctly, then my guess is your model has no SACD support and you're getting RedBook in DPL II and not discrete surround.

    PS3 suck.
     
    Last edited: Aug 11, 2008
  20. diabolos

    diabolos Guest

    I think this was said beforebut the pioneer 917 receiver doesn't not support audio over HDMI. There is no way to play an SACD on a capable PS3 system with this audio receiver. Upgrade to the VSX-918-k is you wish to stay with pioneer and want SACD playback.
     

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