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Denon 2807

Discussion in 'Receivers and amplifiers' started by korso55, Jun 13, 2007.

  1. korso55

    korso55 Regular member

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    I wanted to know what the reputation with Denon is before i bought this. If i did buy this receiver with the HDMI capability to go along with my HD DVD player but for the time being used my Panasonic speakers from another simpler surround system...will i still hear that huge difference high definition difference??
     
  2. korso55

    korso55 Regular member

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  3. JVC

    JVC Active member

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    Sounds like they may be small speakers, from an HTIB? From your wording, I'm taking it for granted they are. Panasonic isn't known for great speakers.

    If they are, you won't hear much difference, until you get good speakers. This Denon receiver deserves good speakers, to show what it's capable of. Denon makes some very good stuff. An $1100 receiver, with $200 speakers, is a mismatch of huge proportions. Speakers make the biggest sound difference, in systems. Speakers should also be one half, to two thirds, of the total price of a system. They are the most important part of any system.

    Good luck!

    BTW..........
    Denon remotes can be a nightmare to learn. The older models anyway. Not familiar with the newer ones. Make life easier for you and your wife/GF, and get a Harmony remote, when you can......... :eek:)
    gerry1 may jump in here, and tell you more. I think he has the Denon 3802 or 3805. Forget exactly which model.
     
  4. gerry1

    gerry1 Guest

    Ah, you know me so well, JVC! How have you been? You wrote:

    That is the understatement of the day. It's astonishing how such a great AVR can have such a crappy remote.

    @Korso55: the good news is that you can go into the menus of your system, mute the system to deliver less wattage per channel and set the frequency responses it puts out. Go online and check the specs of those speakers and adjust your receiver's specs accordingly and you should be safe.

    The way you have it connected you run the risk (a probable one) of just totally frying the only speakers you have at the moment and secondly, your Denon may well just shut off and go into protect mode. JVC is absolutely right; your speakers are seriously outclassed by the receiver, still, I would adjust the receiver and use the speakers you have until you can afford speakers good enough to match the AVR. That is one hell of a nice receiver, you don't want to buy cheapies that don't do it justice. The sound from that receiver is awesome. (I have a 3805 ... a bit older than your's ... but the specs aren't all that different; the real difference is a few more bells and whistles and Burr Brown decoders which yours may well have as well). One thing people often overlook with their AVR is that you have to manually activate the microprocessors ... check how to do it in your manual. Many don't realize it and end up with effects of far less quality than the receiver is capable of.

    Edit: one other thing, you want to leave your receiver on "standby" (the circle around the power controls will show red ... green, obviously in on). Keeping it on standby will use just a tiny amount of power to keep the settings and decoders in place). If you turn it completely off, the settings and microprocessors will eventually reset to its default.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 13, 2007
  5. korso55

    korso55 Regular member

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    thank you for replying...the speakers come from a Panasonic SC-HT930 that was close to $500. Im not too clear on the lowering the wattage but will i hear a noticeable difference with these simple speakers at all?

    If someone can take a look because im still a newbie...can i use these speakers gerry?

    http://reviews.cnet.com/home-theater-in-a/panasonic-sc-ht930/4507-6740_7-31356484.html?tag=sub


    I know Denon is the best thats why i got this one...so what are the top speaker brands?
     
  6. gerry1

    gerry1 Guest

    Hi korso! Yes, you can use them but you need to be very careful because your Denon if far more powerful than the speakers will handle, so too, the reciver is 8ohm while the speakers are 4ohm. Look up "muting" in your manual; it will tell you how to lower the output of the amplifier. I'll look in manual at home to see if that's the term Denon uses (I haven't looked at it in some time). Your receiver should also have a built in "equalizer" ... with that, you can adjust it to tone down the bass and treble; you don't want it at the extremes that the amp will put out because you'll fry those speakers for sure. If you don't seriously crank the volume and you adjust the bass and treble so that they're not putting out the max in both, you should be o.k. but I can't guarantee it, but it should work... like JVC said, they aren't well matched. Also, be careful of your center speakers, for reasons I don't understand, your center speaker is only 45 watts while your amp is 100w. One thing you certainly should do is to go into the "speaker setup" menu of your amplifier and set ALL the speakers to "small" which will protect your speakers from the very deepest frequencies by routing them to the sub...it would be a smart, cautious step. When connecting the speakers to the amp, remember that red is positive while black is negative. Also, to minimize the possibility of having the amp go into protect mode and to have better sound, use decent speaker wire. You needn't spend a fortune; you can get 16g speaker wire at radio shack for pretty cheap.

    I'm sure you'll want to get new speakers for it when you can afford to. When that time comes, let us know what sort of budget you're working with and we can help you out. There are some brands that are quite good for the money (not the best) but quite good and without fear of blowing them to pieces. For example, I've seen Mirage Nanosat complete 5.1 packages for around $400.00. You can also get "Fluance" systems for relatively cheap which sound decent (again, neither of them are the best (Mirages are the better of the two) but they sound quite good and you needn't worry about frying them.

    http://www.fluance.com/

    Don't get discouraged trying to figure out how to best use the receiver, get the settings right etc. If you're not use to these types of receivers, they can be a little frustrating to learn but once you've labored through it, it becomes very easy. Do you have the user manual? If not, let me know and I'll find a link for you.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 13, 2007
  7. korso55

    korso55 Regular member

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    Thank you so much gerry...should i stay away from speaker sets sold in best buy and circuit city? i want only the best!!!what is the typical price range for a very good speaker set? what is the best brand out there(not bose)? should i buy the speakers in a surround sound set or mix and match because i heard the best kind of home theater is the kind that is compiled from different pieces.

    Also i also eventually want to use "buttkickers" i think they are called? to read the bass vibrations....kind of like a rumble pack hooked up to your couch....are those popular in the home theater world?


    thanks
     
  8. gerry1

    gerry1 Guest

    Hi Korso!:

    There is no reason why you should avoid Best Buy or Circuit City; the disadvantage is that you'll have to pay sales tax and it may cost a bit more than some sales you can get online. The advantage is that should you have a problem, you can put them in the trunk and bring them back without the problem of shipping. If you buy online, be very careful who you buy from ... the product may be exactly the same but most (not all) online stores are considered to be "distributers" and they'll only tell you there is no manufacturer's warranty in the fine print. If buying online, buy only from site that say "authorized dealer of...". Some will have their own store warantee to match the manufacturer's but I don't trust them ... if you do that, make sure it has the Better Business Bureau seal at the bottom of the home-page.

    WRONG WRONG WRONG!! LOL! I've heard people say that too and I cringe whenever I hear it because the exact opposite is true. All speakers (except the sub) MUST be "timber matched" (some HT sites will call it "voice matched"). I heard this for myself: I bought some top of the line, very expensive speakers but couldn't afford all of them so I bought the two fronts and the center planning to buy the two matching rears a couple of months later. I borrowed two top of the line Polks for the rear until I could afford what I wanted ... sounded like crap together!! When the speakers don't match, the transition of the effects from front to rear and visa versa isn't a smooth one but rather very abrupt ... sounded aweful yet both front and rear were top of the line from different manufacturers. They really MUST match. Read this on "timber (voice) matching:
    Before you start, consider voice-matching. Voice-matching is key to effective home theater sound. If your speakers do not produce a similar tonal quality and share the same harmonic characteristics, the sound will be disjointed when it travels from speaker to speaker. With voice-matched speakers, the sound moves effortlessly around you, creating a seamless surround effect. The best way to ensure voice-matched speakers is to choose speakers from the same "family" of speakers, by the same brand. (If you'd like to add center and surround speakers to an existing pair of stereo speakers, and you don't think that series is in production anymore, a call to the manufacturer may help you identify a newer series which will be tonally similar.)from:
    http://www.crutchfieldadvisor.com/S-IUVtl82m2Ku/learningcenter/home/ht_speakers.html

    .

    You can go either way. The advantage of buying a set is that the timber matching is done for you and they're often cheaper than buying speakers individually (at one time, these sets were junk but that isn't at all true anymore). If you buy individually, it will cost more but the advantage is that you can pic and choose from different shapes, sizes and quality ... as long as all five are timber matched (same manufacturer and series).

    Bose makes expensive junk. Stay away from them. "What is the best brand" is impossible to answer ... when it comes to the top of the line, it becomes a matter of personal taste, not quality...they're all high quality among the good products. They will all sound excellent but somewhat different...Mirage is color neutral while Polk is very bright sounding; both excellent yet different. I have top of the line Mirage speakers which I absolutely love but my real favorites are made by a company called Ohm Acoustics:
    http://www.miragespeakers.com/v2/
    http://www.ohmspeaker.com/

    Ohm speakers have a neat little calculation thing to see which speakers are best for your room size. My buddy had decided to buy their largest, best and most powerful ... serious money; they actually told him to go with a smaller and less expensive model because they were totally wrong for the room size. I was astonished that they would talk a customer into paying less money! When you buy speakers that are too large for a room, the speaker separation and consequently the sound effects really suffer. "Bigger is better" is a bunch of crap.

    Oh, they exist but they're crap and a waste of money. Perhaps they'll enhance your sound if you're running a crappy set of speakers but if you're using good speakers and a good sub, you'll get much better sound and if wall shaking, window vibrating bass and effects is what you want, a good sub will easily do that without adding "contraptions" to your system.

    As for price, that's a tough one. You can get "good" 5.1 speakers (set) for $400-$800 bucks. If you want top of the line stuff count on spending at least $1000 to God knows what! I spent about $3,500 for mine which I bought a little at a time because of the price and they get much more expensive than that! For your Denon, because of its quality, at a minimum you want "good" speakers to top of the line stuff. Avoid cheapies like the plague. Remember that even if the "specs" of speakers read the same, they're not created equal!

     
  9. JVC

    JVC Active member

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    I'll get back in now, for a minute.
    Ideally, all the speakers should match, so they'll be timbre matched. When sound pans from left to right, or from front to back, you don't want the sound to change, when it gets to the next speaker, like it does with different speakers.

    For a good set of 5 speakers, you can spend anywhere from $1000, to over a $100,000. Depends on what you want, and how much you're willing to spend. You can check out http://www.crutchfield.com for some. I think they have some tower speakers (for fronts), and smaller ones for rears (that timbre match). I also send people to SVS....... http://www.svsound.com/products-sys-sbs_black.cfm
    SVS makes one of the best subwoofers on the planet.

    Some people use the ButtKickers, but they're not real popular. I think they're a gimmick, more than anything.
    Good luck!

    I'm alright gerry...........you?
    I knew you'd get in on this Denon conversation! :eek:)
     
  10. gerry1

    gerry1 Guest

    LOL! You know me too well! I looked at those SVS subs you directed me to once; they seem awesome! I'd really like to hear one sometime.

    Korso, like I said about speakers ... when it comes to the really awesome stuff, it becomes a matter of personal taste and there must be a couple of dozen really great manufacturers. If you sample some and find something you really like, read independent reviews before you buy them. Just because they sound great today doesn't mean that they won't be toast tomorrow.
     
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  11. JVC

    JVC Active member

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    gerry.....
    I've only heard one, personally. The guy had one of the cylinder subs. Don't know the model number. It was close to four ft tall, and reached some low notes you wouldn't believe. I think I have a pic on here of it:
    [​IMG]
    I call it the BEAST!
    I want one bad, but they're not cheap.
     
    Last edited: Jun 13, 2007
  12. gerry1

    gerry1 Guest

    Massive sucker!! Not exactly something you can put under the end table LOL!
     
  13. korso55

    korso55 Regular member

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    Well what would you personally recommend would be a perfect match with speakers and this receiver? I really want some speakers that have got a flawless reputation. Will the speaker system come equipped with a subwoofer or do i need to buy that seperately?

    thanks
     
  14. korso55

    korso55 Regular member

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    Well what would you personally recommend would be a perfect match with speakers and this receiver? I really want some speakers that have got a flawless reputation. Will the speaker system come equipped with a subwoofer or should i buy that seperately?

    I also heard it wasnt a good idea to use the HDMI output for both video and audio, is that true...i feel that some high definition picture quality may be compromised?

    Is polk a good brand?....it keeps popping up in my searches. Also if Flurance is such a good brand why are they dirt cheap? I will be needing those giant floorstand speakers within my speaker package but few people carry them for under $2000....Can anyone help?

     
  15. JVC

    JVC Active member

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    Well, you'll never own another set of speakers then. There is no brand on the planet, that everybody likes! There is no perfect brand. What may sound good to you, will sound bad to the next guy. All you can do, is find some you think you'll like, and try them. If you don't like them afterall..........return them, and get some other ones.

    Did you also hear why?
    If your receiver can process the audio, instead of just being a pass through, that statement is just plain rediculous.

    Yes Polk is a good brand, if you don't get the cheapest ones. The LSi models of Polks, are very good. Not familiar with Fluance personally. I see them mentioned a lot. If you're wanting Top Quality speakers, that include floorstanders, you're gonna pay more than $2000. Period. They don't give away the top quality stuff............
     
  16. korso55

    korso55 Regular member

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    Thanks for replying, Is it safe to say that any speaker set that costs around $2000 will automatically match the tech specs required for my receiver? What website would you say has the best variety of speaker sets to pick from? preferably one with customer reviews

    I really dont know what to look for in speakers regarding the tech specs...to go with my Denon 2807. What should match up?

    thanks

     
  17. korso55

    korso55 Regular member

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  18. gerry1

    gerry1 Guest

    @Korso...

    I mentioned Fluance as good "budget speakers"; when one is working with a very limited budget, fluance is the best buy for the buck ... but we're talking about the best there is for little money.

    It's difficult to answer your question about "top of the line" speakers because there are a lot of different companies that make really excellent ones. Like I said before, with that sort of quality, you're talking about personal taste ... the "top of the line" of all the big named speakers companies are "excellent". Axiom makes awesome speakers as does Mirage, Polk, Cambridge Soundworks, Ohm Acoustics, Paradigm, Acoustic Energy, JBL, ADS, Infinity, Cerwin-Vega, Wharfedale, JVC ... the list goes on and on. The top models of all of these and others are awesome. You want 8ohms, 150 watts and all the frequency responses of the better speakers will be fine and "compatibility" won't be an issue with the top models of any of these.

    JVC wrote:
    This is totally true. My buddy has top of the polk that are just too brassy for me but that's the way he likes it. I like "color neutral" speakers because of the type of music I listen to. Personal taste, my friend. Again, all the better models of the big companies will be compatible with your Denon. HDMI is great for both audio and video; whoever told you that it doesn't handle both very well doesn't know what he's talking about. It's digital to digital without conversion; you can't get any better than that.

    Well, that a reasonably fair assumption ... most of these good, better models comform to a tech standard that is, for the most part, universal. Just make sure that they're at least 150 watts at 8 ohms and you'll be all set.
     
  19. korso55

    korso55 Regular member

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    im not sure about th OHM's....make sure the speakers are at least 8ohms each individually or all combined or just the front towers? Are all speaker sets already voice matched?...if not how do you do that. I am looking at some Axiom's right now
     
  20. korso55

    korso55 Regular member

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    i see other more expensive speaker systems that have 8ohm's.....what exactly does this do? how will 8ohm sound different from all of ohms?
     

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