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Dual Layer copying - Once and for all what is the BEST WAY?

Discussion in 'DVDR' started by steve7777, Apr 4, 2005.

  1. steve7777

    steve7777 Member

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    Hello,

    Before I begin I must thank everybody on this board for helping me out with my various DVD related problems. I have now learnt to do everything DVD backup related and am very happy with the results.

    Now, THE MAIN QUESTION:

    Is their a best way for making perfect copies of DVD-9's?
    I read the following guide: http://forums.afterdawn.com/thread_view.cfm/1/160628#837890 by Rotary but am wondering, is there a "one best way".

    The reason I ask is that there are all sorts of tecnicalities, such as booktype and such, and really want everybody's input as to the very best way to copy DVD-9. For DVD-5's I use AnyDVD with Nero Recode, which I have read in the forums to be the best way to make quality backups W/O too many headaches.

    So once again: [bold]What is THE best way to make DVD-9 backups??

    Regards,

    steve7777
     
  2. dumbfuker

    dumbfuker Member

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    Steve,

    Congratulations on having learned everything, after tinkering with the process for several months, I suspect I have only just scratched the surface. don't misunderstand me.....I too thought (several times, actually) that I had it all figued out, only to run into an issue that sent me back to the drawing board. I hope your future is better than my past.

    :)

    Anyway, as far as DL backups are concerned, I've only done two of them because the media is just to spendy for my taste. I had great success using Shrink and Decryptor. It does take seemingly FOREVER to burn, but both my attempts turned out fine. I hesitate to state there is any one best way to do ANYTHING. It usually boils down to what works best for each user and what tools/supplies are available.

    Be sure to let us know when you learn everything about DL backups because I'm sure we'll have lots of questions. :) (Just in case it wasn't clear, I'm just kidding with you and employing a bit of sarcasm.)

    Regards,

    DF
     
  3. oracle

    oracle Member

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    "One thing I know for sure, that I don't know nothing"

    Socrates

    My opinion is that no man can hold the knowledge of all things. According to my experience the best way is the most familiar to you, even if you have to perform some extra tasks some times. For the rest I have the same point of view concerning the prices of DL discs, if it is not too anoying for you to change during the play back of a movie the disc in your appliance, in case that you don't want to compress at all the original size and do not leave aside the extra features (which personally I hate to back up).

     
  4. Bruce999

    Bruce999 Regular member

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    IF you are trying to do a straight one-to-one backup of a DVD, and you wish to go from a dual layer commercial disc to a dual layer blank DVD+R, and you do not need to do any editing, re-authoring, etc., then DVDDecrypter is the "safe" way to go.

    A few cautions, though...
    1) Make absultely certain you are using the latest version of DVDDecrypter. If you go two versions back (Sept. of 2004), it will not work properly.

    2) Use the default settings in DVDDecrypter. Do not try to outguess or outthink the program, here. Everything is set perfectly for dual layer rips and burns, as is. The book type setting has already been selected.

    2) In DVDDecrypter, you need to make certain you are ripping an image, and then writing that image. (In other words, you do not want to rip as "Files.")

    To do this, you go to the Mode menu, and choose "ISO READ." Then, rip it to your hard drive.

    Next, you go back to the Mode menu, and choose "ISO WRITE." You then navigate to the file with the ".MDS" extension. Then, burn back to your blank DVD dual layer.

    Lots of people have had troubles trying to burn dual layer discs with Nero. Nero has caused a LOT of dual-layer headaches and a lot of expensive coasters, because it has several options for the layer change. You can choose to try to specify where the layer break should occur (but you have to know what you are doing). You can also let Nero place it (but if the wrong option is checked on the option I just mentioned, you can actually end up with two layer breaks -- OUCH!) Nero can be used, but I recommend you do a lot of careful reading before you try it, or plan on some coasters.

    I have used the DVDDecrypter method I outlined above for 20 successful burns, now, and I have tested these in several DVD players in my house (I own six). It is the safest, most reliable method, unless you need to do some editing or re-authoring.

    I have only made one dual layer coaster, and it was completely MY FAULT. I did not realize the old version on my PC would not work, so I screwed up, after reading from so many people how "DVDDecrypter worked perfectly every time." Oops. Not the program's fault... mine.

    Finally, those who have had media problems on some standalone players report that (overwhelmingly) the Verbatim dual layer discs seem to be the "safe choice," so far. Some have reported problems with all of the others out there, even Ritek. Ritek's worked fine in my standalonje, though... Two Panasonics, one Toshiba, one Sony, one Panasonic DVD Recorder, and the DVD player in my wife's van.

    The Verbatim's I have used yielded the same results.

    Obviously, the above is only based on my experience. But, I feel pretty confidant, now, after 20 straight excellent burns.

    -Bruce
     
  5. Bruce999

    Bruce999 Regular member

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    Oops... an edit, for my post above. In the paragraph where I describe the one "Coaster" that I made, I meant to explain that I was using an older version of DVDDecrypter. No one had told me it did not support dual layer burning. Once I downloaded the new version, all was fine.

    Sorry for any confusion.

    -Bruce
     
  6. steve7777

    steve7777 Member

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    Well, it seem that the general concensus is to use DVD Decrypter as described by Bruce 999. I bought some relatively cheap Dual Layer discs (Memorex, 5$CDN each at Futureshop.ca) but have not tried to make a DVD-9 backup yet. I normally use Philips 8X DVD-R media because as mentionned, Dual Layer discs are way overpriced.

    For those who are also in the process of learning, I must emphasise: GET YOUR FIRMWARE UPDATED! Originally my 2 dual layer burners were not burining these disks but once I updated the firmware everything was peachy. I will make sure that I have the latest version of DVD Decrypter and will probably have fun testing this weekend.

    On an irrelevant note,

    Why would I want to do a "partial" backup when I have the possibility to do a full one?

    If anybody would like to share diffrent Dual Layer DVD tactics, please feel free to do so here. I find that through the vast amounts of information on this website there is very little information on this subject.

    Regards,

    steve7777

     
  7. clickclak

    clickclak Guest

    steve777, futureshop has $5CDN DL media?!
     
  8. steve7777

    steve7777 Member

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    Yes, sometimes :-S The reason I say this is that it often varies in price depending on the "sale of the week".

    Here is the direct link to the futureshop product details page:
    http://www.futureshop.ca/catalog/pr...0056773&catid=12501&newdeptid=2&test_cookie=1

    At the time that I bought my 2 packs, they were 14.99. Now they are at 19.99.

    Still, it's alot cheaper than 40$ for 3 Verbatim discs. Just beware that you need the latest firware for your drive installed, as these disks did not work until I updated my drives. I burnt one and it worked...
     
  9. Bruce999

    Bruce999 Regular member

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    >>>>>I bought some relatively cheap Dual Layer discs (Memorex, 5$CDN each at Futureshop.ca) but have not tried to make a DVD-9 backup yet. I normally use Philips 8X DVD-R media because as mentionned, Dual Layer discs are way overpriced.<<<<<<

    Ouch. I think you are on the right track, in every way, except this.

    When it comes to blank DVDs, media matters. And, so far, it seems that when it comes to blank DVD dual layer discs, media matters even more.

    I would urge you to do some searching on this issue. Those who have been doing a lot of experimenting with dual layer burning seem to be almost in unison: Verbatim dual layer discs (so far) seem to work the best. Ritek dual layer discs (so far) seem to run a close second. I have read, already, several reports of problems with Memorex dual layer discs. I have read of burns that failed, prior to the conclusion of the burn, and also of burns that seemed successful, but then could not play in the users' standalone DVD players.

    I have also read similar reports for the other dual layer media that is out there, so far. Believe me, I WISH their were more available that was reliable, as I suspect this would help drive the prices down.

    If you wish to read some of these same experiences, I suggest a visit to the DVDDecrypter Support Forum. This is where I have seen more user reports discussed than on any of the 0ther forums. Next to that, I would also suggest a visit to the DVDRhelp.com forum where I think you will find identical reports.

    I hate to refer anyone elsewhere, and I would of course urge you to come back here. But, the DVDDecrypter support forum has had a LOT of discussion about dual layer burning, simply because DVDDecrypter is one of the few software programs that solved the issues very very quickly. Because of that, a lot of people who are tinkering with this tend to hang out there, and report their experiences, both good and bad. A simple search on the term "dual layer" will yield lots of previous discussion.

    Just a thought -- a three-pack of "ANYBRAND" which costs $15 is not really all that much of a bargain if one of those DVDs yields a coaster. Now, you have spent $7.50 per disc. And, a three-pack of "ANYBRAND" which costs $15 is not really all that much of a bargain if two of those DVDs yields a coaster. Now, you have spent $15.00 per disc. Had you bought Verbatim, perhaps for $20.00 for a three-pack, and had three good solid burns, you have spent about $6.67 per disc.

    I wish it were not this way, and I keep waiting for better competition in this area.

    I wish you the best of luck,

    Bruce
     
  10. steve7777

    steve7777 Member

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    Thanks Bruce. The verbatim media is actually 40$ for 3 (yikes!) so we're talking about 13.33 dollars a disc. I really bought these as testers, for I have used Memorex DVD+RW and DVD+R in the past and well... they blow. I would burn a disk and it would work that day but a week later the data was long gone.

    What I WILL do is test these disks and report the results I get here, in the AD forums.

    Regards,

    steve7777

    [bold]If anybody has alternate DVD+DL solutions, please post them. This could be a great guide for noobs, such as myself, in the future. [/bold]
     
  11. Bruce999

    Bruce999 Regular member

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    Steve:

    >>>Thanks Bruce. The verbatim media is actually 40$ for 3 (yikes!) so we're talking about 13.33 dollars a disc.<<<

    Ouch. You are definitely paying way too much for blank discs.

    Try this link:

    http://www.meritline.com/dl-dvd-r-dual-double-layer-verbatim.html

    That puts them at $6.66 per disc.

    I can find them even cheaper, but I chose to show this link because I have dealt with these people, and they are one of the dealers I trust, already.

    -Bruce
     
  12. steve7777

    steve7777 Member

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    I forgot to mention that I'm in Canada, we actually pay a surcharge on all blank media to compensate for piracy (MPAA, RIAA). I will stick to DVD-R's until they start packing these discs in 50pcs cake boxes.

    steve7777
     
  13. jamacaboi

    jamacaboi Regular member

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    steve7777:

    In Canada you can get the verbatim 3 pack DVD+R DL media at www.blankmedia.ca for $26 or a 5 pack of Ritek DVD+R DL media (plus a bonus DVD+R RW) for $37.

    check them out. great prices and speedy shipping. been using them since December 2004 and all has been good.

    since when do we pay a surcharge on media in Canada? it must be built into the price since I dont see a seperate charge for it when I buy online or retail at FutureShop or Best Buy.
     
    Last edited: Apr 12, 2005
  14. Normie

    Normie Guest

    i'm wondering if anyone has used dvd43 and, if so, how well does it work (especially with 1 Click DVD Copy)? any info regarding dvd43 compared to DVD Decrypter, etc.?
     
  15. steve7777

    steve7777 Member

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    @jamacaboi Funny that you talk about blankmedia.ca, I just found out about them recently. I want to buy 100 Taiyo Yuden 8x DVD-Rs but they are not in stock. So you would recommend them? (As said, the DL media is just too expensive for the momment. AS FOR THE SURCHARGE, it is built directly into the price. Blank media as well as MP3 players w/5GB+ storarge also have a surcharge. (Not sure if it's 5GB, 1GB, but I know that a surchage exists)

    @Normie DVD43 works pretty much the same as Decrypter, but Decrypter is better for backing up DL DVD's. I use ANYDVD, a program much like DVD43, for my DVD-5 backups.

    Regards,
    steve7777
     
  16. bbmayo

    bbmayo Active member

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    Steve7777,

    I just noticed you said you had AnyDVD. Well there is another option which I have found to actually work a little easier than DVD Decrypter for backing up to a dual layer disk. Just use Nero's disk copy function of course you will have to have AnyDVD running in the background.
     
  17. steve7777

    steve7777 Member

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    @ bbmayo

    I understand that with nero there are certain settings to insure that the disc burns correctly. Something to do with the layer break. Is it faster than using decrypter? Or just easier?

    In any case, I would really like to hear what configuration is needed so that the layer break doesn't mess up.

    Regards,

    steve7777

     
  18. bbmayo

    bbmayo Active member

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    I haven't had to mess with layer break in Nero and it works fine I do back up the dual layer in "BookType" mode in Nero though and it makes the disk's more compatable with all the DVD players out there. Nero is a little faster and easier than Decrypter at doing this, but Decrypter works too. I'm at work right now so I cant really explain how to make sure Nero is set to "booktype" but I can when I get home it has been a little while since I did a dual layer backup (was just testing it out) I am going to wait for the price to come down on the media before I really decide to go that route. Then I am not sure I would even switch then because then single layer disk's will more than likely be even that much cheaper, and I just back up the main movie anyway so I hardly use any compression on any of my disk's.
     
  19. rlschneck

    rlschneck Guest

    try american-digital.com for ritek dual layer discs (less than $5/disc)

    i use a plextor 716a burner and roxio disc copier to burn DL backups of my movies, and so far i have produced 2 $5 coasters and about 10 successful burns. my suspicion is that the two coasters were due to faulty media, but i don't really know how to tell. in both cases the disc failed to make any progress, and roxio told me "medium write error: power calibration area is full" and i also got another error that said something about a failure to sync... i will check what that other error said, exactly, when i get home.

    if anyone knows whether this is a hardware, software, or media problem, please post your diagnosis so that i can avoid making more $5 coasters.
     
  20. rlschneck

    rlschneck Guest

    hello again,

    the other errors that i received were:

    D: PLEXTOR DVDR PX-716A("Seek, synch, ATIP or mechanical positioning error - Medium Error." [03/02/00])

    D: PLEXTOR DVDR PX-716A("Invalid field in CDB - Illegal request." [05/24/00])

    if anyone can help me to identify the culprit, i would really appreciate it!
     

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