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DVD+R DL Debate

Discussion in 'DVD±R for advanced users' started by phaedrus7, Apr 26, 2007.

  1. phaedrus7

    phaedrus7 Member

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    Thanks to everyone who replied to my original post--using imgburn seems to have solved the "layer break" problem. You guys are geniuses. One quick question up for debate: so everyone agrees that Verbatim is the way to go--does it matter if they are listed as 8x or 2.4x? Is one better than another in terms of DVD burning? Ultimately, is there one single best way to burn a DVD, from software choice (ripping and burning) to DVD R media choice? Thanks for the insights fellas!
     
  2. BIGTOXY69

    BIGTOXY69 Regular member

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    in my limited DL burning experience I don't think you could go wrong with the verbatims no matter what speed ! I would buy whichever you can get the best price on! whether locally or online ! CIAO !!!!
     
  3. JoeRyan

    JoeRyan Active member

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    The original DL media were made in a 2P ("photo-polymer") process that used a temporary plastic stamper cured by UV light and thrown away. This was costly and wasteful. Now manufacturers are moving to an IS ("inverse stack") method of manufacturing that is less expensive but puts the inner layer "upside down" as far as the recording laser is concerned. Media manufacturers have wanted to go to IS from the beginning, but IS discs did not work well with the first DL drives; so they waited until 8X speeds came to make the switch.

    That suggests that 8X DL media will not work well with drives that do not have an 8X DL speed unless there are firmware updates available--a useless hope these days because firmware engineers have been moved to other jobs and support for drives older than 6 months has disappeared. I don't know if Verbatim 8X DL will be IS models, but I suspect so since Ricoh, CMC, and Ritek have all moved their 8X production to that type. If so, then 8X Verbatim DL media may not work as well in older drives as the older 2.4X versions.

    Some of the more recent DL drives are recording on some CMC and Ritek DL media as well as on Verbatim because the market share of the Taiwanese produced discs is surpassing that of Verbatim, and the drive manufacturers are now tuning their firmware to include better performance for other DL media. The compatibility is sporadic, though, (Ritek holds an advantage here.) and all DL drives do include firmware tuned for Verbatim/MCC because MCC invented DL recordable media. The 2P versus IS problem, however, is going to cause frustration for everyone using any brand--except those who have bought the latest drives.
     
  4. bahgee

    bahgee Guest

    Im a little confused. I use DL media from time to time for various live dvd concert backups and for special movies that are hard to find and im afraid to scratch. I use 2 different drives as I have 2 different pcs i do authoring and back-ups with. Are you saying that the DL DVD drive will and are now going to dictate how well the DL media works? Rephrase- The new pcs that come installed with DL dvd drives are made for ease of compatiblility with cheaper DL media because of how the DL media is made? I have always been told to trust verb DL's as they invented the technology (or so I was told). If Ritek seems to be of a general better quality then im all for that as they are generally cheaper at the online stores most of us use. As a consumer, what should i be buying in bulk to satisfy an older DVD DL Drive and a new DL Drive that came with a new laptop i just bought. Hope this makes sense. By the way thanks for all the facts and background on DL technology. Kudos!
     
  5. AE27

    AE27 Regular member

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    I have used true 8X Verbatim DL disks. The problem I find is if I burn at anything higher than 4X for backing up a movie at the layer split the movie is either all distorted or it freezes.
     
  6. bahgee

    bahgee Guest

    Have you tried Ritek DL? Ide like to know the scoop on those before I order any DL's in bulk. Thanks
     
  7. phaedrus7

    phaedrus7 Member

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    If a DVD disc is sold as "8x", does that mean you need to record at the 8x speed? I've been told never to burn faster than 2.4x to prevent problems with the quality etc. My main question is, why are the Verbatim discs distinguised as such: 2.4x, 8x? Is that there maximum safe recording speed, or ideal recording speed? Thanks guys.
     
  8. JoeRyan

    JoeRyan Active member

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    The speed rating of a disc is the maximum speed of data transfer at the outer edge of the disc on most drives rated to record at that speed. Drive manufacturers have continued to increase recording speeds, usually at the compromise of quality recordings. The media manufacturers usually follow the drive boys.

    If the drive allows different speeds for an MID code, for example, a choice of 2.4X, 4X, 6X, or 8X recording speeds for 8X DVD+R discs, then recording at a middle speed usually provides a better recording. Too slow a speed may cause problems if the firmware engineering is sloppy and applies too much power. (You may note that drives today do not allow the multiple speeds that older drives did. That's because each drive speed for each MID code takes time; time is money; and drive prices today don't leave enough money for manufacturers to have the luxury of multiple speed firmware settings.) AE27's recording of 8X Verbatim DL media at 4X is a wise choice because the drive has enough time to change focus at the layer change from L0 to L1 without creating critical errors. If a drive allows it, recording DL at a medium speed is a good move.

    The 2.4X and 4X DL media were almost all 2P discs. Since everyone is complaining about costs of DL media, Ricoh pushed to get the IS method in more common use to avoid having to throw out the polymer stamper and to reduce manufacturing steps. Since IS discs may cause problems in older, no-longer-supported DL drives, manufacturers waited until the 8X DL media became available to make the switch to IS. Their hope was that older drives would still use 4X DL on the shelves, and the newer drives capable of 8X DL recording would easily handle IS DL discs. Hopes are often dashed, and people with older drives trying to record 8X DL IS discs at 2.4X or 4X speeds are having the predictable problems.

    If you have an older drive, stick with 4X DL media as long as you can. If you have a new drive capable of 8X DL recording, try them at 8X and 4X to see if there is a difference. If 4X yields better results--not a surprise--stick with that speed. For those of you with older drives waiting for firmware updates to allow recording on IS discs, save up for a new drive. Those updates will never come.
     
  9. bahgee

    bahgee Guest

    So are there any DL's that have the non-IS method still? Verbatim maybe? Interesting informative post. Appreciate that. Thanks joe
     
  10. 300bowler

    300bowler Regular member

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    i believe joe said that the 4x rated Verbs are not the IS way, only the 8x rated ones are.
     
  11. bahgee

    bahgee Guest

    Thank you.!
     

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