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DVDrebuilder/CCEsp and 3 or more passes.

Discussion in 'DVD±R for advanced users' started by 64026402, Mar 20, 2005.

  1. 64026402

    64026402 Active member

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    DVDrebuilder has matured and grown into a top notch DVD backup program. With CCE basic it is the lowest cost truly high end encoder based setup.

    But there is always the desire for more.
    Some with CCEsp like performing additional passes to improve slightly the distribution of the lower bitrate encodes.

    I personally do not own SP but I do periodically run the latest SP trial to see what I am missing.
    I like 1 pass VBR for the time savings. I would pay extra for this if it were available seperate but not for 2000 dollars.

    My experience with 3,4,5... on up passes have not given me anything useful for the additional time on DVD backups.
    People with bigger screens and more time on there hands may differ in opinion.
    Let find out who has CCE sp and has tested the boundries of quality with additional passes.
    If you feel the time is worth it say so here.
    What quality settings and DVD sizes and types are used.
     
  2. bigorange

    bigorange Active member

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    Maybe we can jump start this thread. I have run up to 7 passes with CCE SP and to tell the truth I can't tell a difference after 3 and not much if any between 2 and 3. I can't afford SP, but I see no reason for it. Basic works fine for me. I viewed my results on a 57" HDTV split screen at 300% magnification. Anyone else have thoughts on the matter?
     
  3. malcdogg

    malcdogg Regular member

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    Although i'm merly a lowly Jr. member i will add my thoughts. I agree. Using more then 2 passes, the quality improvement is hardly noticable if at all. If it's really low bitrate, i just use the appropriate matrice through RBOpt. If you want to take extra time with your encoding, then using the proper matrice is a way to do it WITH a noticable result. In my opinion. :)
     
  4. 64026402

    64026402 Active member

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    Since I backup all of my DVDs I wish to be reasonably time efficient so there would need to be a substantial quality improvement for me to add additional passes even if I own CCEsp.

    My concern is if you add bit rate someplace on and already well encoded movie then it has to come from somewhere else.
    You aren't improving picture quality, just moving it around some.
    Nolos if you would like to step in here somewhere.
     
    Last edited: Mar 20, 2005
  5. 64026402

    64026402 Active member

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    The matrice would be a usefull option. I haven't tried but have seen it there with the latest install I did on my reload.
     
    Last edited: Mar 20, 2005
  6. 64026402

    64026402 Active member

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    Yes it is in expert options on .79pro.
     
  7. Sophocles

    Sophocles Senior member

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    Some have made the multiple nolos's (no loss) claim. I don't think that the problem is with the number of passes so much as it is with limited space. CCE is engineered to effectivley allocate bit rate to the scene. We all know that faster scenes require a higher bit rate and that slower scenes might require very little. A scene in a room for instance might require nothing from the motionless background which allows for CCE to save space for actions scenes. I believe that this is the essence of variable bit rate, a constant swapping between fast and slow moving scenes. The more that can be saved in the allocation of bitrate to the slow scenes the more that the savings can be passed on to faster scenes. No matter how you shake it you only have so much space to work with, and an unlimited number of passes can't change that.
     
    Last edited: Mar 20, 2005
  8. brobear

    brobear Guest

    I'll join in. I've got a 60 inch screen TV. I don't like the big blue logo of the CCE SP trial, but I do run a trial on occasion just to see what everyone is talking about. That and to be able to help new members with setup.

    Like BigO, I see little difference, if any, between 3 and 4 passes. In fact, I wonder if the time involved is worth any difference between 2 and 3. Maybe if one was using a retail version of SP and setting it manually, they might see improvement with an extra pass or 2. Using RB to operate CCE, I see little.

    I'd like to add that with the Quality Prec settings, the average is 16 with RB. The settings are adjusted for the scale of the CCE program being used. This setting is supposed to be forgiving and changing it a few settings upward has little effect. In some rare instances, it may have a detrimental effect, but according to the author, a setting of 24 as compared to 16 is still in the rang of usability and not normally a problem. This setting isn't as critical as some tend to think, according to the author of the RB program.
     
  9. bigorange

    bigorange Active member

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    Hail Hail the gang's all here,LOL.

    Yep soph- you've hit it on the head exactly. To my understanding that's precisely how variable bit rate works. You can't create more space if it isn't there either.

    brobear, if there is a difference between 2 or 3 passes, it's minimal, or my eyes are playing tricks on me.
     
  10. brobear

    brobear Guest

    With one notable exception. LOL

    One thing with all the discussion of the professionals doing multi passes, what is the end size of the files they're using? There's a lot of difference between 8.5 and 4.7 discs. Common sense dictates it's easier to encode to a larger media with fewer problems. Also, they're not using RB to operate CCE for them. So, individual bitrate settings could be more variable. Where the pros are being paid well and they might spend days on a single project, we as RB users want to get a backup copy of a DVD in a matter of a few hours.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 20, 2005
  11. Sophocles

    Sophocles Senior member

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    Hmm! We are all here? Right where we started.
     
  12. bigorange

    bigorange Active member

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    With one notable exception.

    One of the purposes of this thread was to get the "notable exception" over here to keep our other thread open.

    I've got it! Using brobear as bait we'll entice him over here. That outta work :>)
     
  13. bigorange

    bigorange Active member

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    Hey malcdogg

    I haven't used the matrice w/ RBOpt, that sounds interesting, even if it is from a "lowly" jr. member LOL :>)
     
  14. brobear

    brobear Guest

    Hmmm... I mentioned I was here along with everyone else and our playmate didn't seem to want to visit. He's a one thread wonder.
     
  15. Sophocles

    Sophocles Senior member

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    Him and half the forum. LOL
     
  16. brobear

    brobear Guest

    LOL I'm going to change my name to Rod. There's Lightning UK and now there's Lightning Rod. LOL
     
  17. bigorange

    bigorange Active member

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    That would be Lightning Rod "UK"( as in University of Kentucky) LOL
     
  18. malcdogg

    malcdogg Regular member

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    Yeah the matrices are great additions. I like to compare them to the "smooth" and "sharp" options in DVD Shrink. RbOpt has a few different matrices. I try not to use them unless i know that somethings gonna have such a low bitrate that it's going to come out looking all mangled. Then i choose whichever one i think will reduce the damage to the video the most.

    BTW since a lot of Sr members are here, and their arent too many posts yet, thanks guys(and girls?) for all the time and info you've put up on these forums. I haven't ever really had to post much here because you guys already had most of the questions i ever could have asked about Rebuilder covered before i even thought them up. You go out of your way to try to help people get started in the right direction. Props.
     
  19. bigorange

    bigorange Active member

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    Thanx for the info and the props. I wish more felt the way you do. Lately you're as likely to get flamed for trying to help someone as you are to get thanx. Hope you continue to visit and give input, we need more people like you :>)
     
  20. Sophocles

    Sophocles Senior member

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    malcdogg

    I'm all choked up. I know we all can give thanks to your kind words.
     

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