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Films running jerky

Discussion in 'DVDR' started by blueandy, Jan 23, 2005.

  1. blueandy

    blueandy Member

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    Ive backed up many of my films and most seem to play ok for the majority of the disk, however I have noticed that many of them when they get to about the last 5 minutes start stuttering and missing frames.

    I usually play back through my external Pioneer DV 575A player through my TV, however on occasion the problem is replicated on using computer playback as well.

    I use the latest DVD Shrink, and record with RecordNow Deluxe.

    Whats frustrating is the quality for 98% of the film playback is excellent, then the end gets spoilt.

    Originally I thought it was something in the recording, the disks are a good quality as supplied and recommend on here somewhere else, however the inconsistency disproves this

    Im at a total loss
     
  2. jim_dandy

    jim_dandy Active member

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    So I guess your "good" media brand is a secret?
    Your symptoms seem to point to bad media.
    Slow down your burn speed, and change your dvd shrink disc size to 4300.That way you dont write on the outer edge, which is where your having problems.
     
    Last edited: Jan 23, 2005
  3. brobear

    brobear Guest

    Let's not knock anything until we know what's happening. First of all, what is the brand name of these discs you are using? What is the speed and format; for example 4X +R? It would be useful if you would download the freeware DVD Identifier and supply the manufacturer code. http://home.scarlet.be/~ping3828/dvd_identifier.zip or
    http://dvd.identifier.cdfreaks.com/dvd_identifier.zip

    Another source of the problem could be the write speed or possibly the burner software. Not condemning either without more proof. Try using the Nero ultra trial and set Shrink to burn automatically with Nero and set the burn speed to 4X or less. If your current burn program allows setting burn speeds then set that to 4X or less. If you're already burning 4X or less, you can disregard this segment.
     
  4. brobear

    brobear Guest

    Jim
    I was out and you beat me to it. We seem to agree, bad media is a common cause, but I just ran into a situation where it was burn speed.
     
  5. blueandy

    blueandy Member

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    Hi Guys, thanks for the input.

    In response the media was recommended on this forum to me about 6 months ago when I first started out, by several people (as well as the supplier being recommended), Ive had an email from the supplier confirming it as CloneDisc DVD-R 4X grade A type disks (Ritek) that I use.

    The details on the website say: Official brand made by Ritek, White Printable CloneDisc 4X DVD-R is exclusively Ritek 100% grade A++ and never anything less! guaranteed grade A deep purple dye, 4.7Gb (240 min), multi speed nicam stereo compatible, suitable for digital TV.

    How do these disks rate in the current world ?

    I looked at the burn settings and they said maximum, the alternative in the software is 1X.

    Prior to posting the message I burned a dvd, which I will try the ending of tonight, as I also have the master files on my computer I can then reburn relatively quickly at the 1x speed and see if things improve.

    I'll also try the tip about the setting in dvd Shrink.

    Will report back on this later.

    One thing I dont understand is why a disk that has a problem on a desktop player, is not always replicated on the computer player - are computer drives less temperamental and more robust?




     
    Last edited: Jan 23, 2005
  6. saugmon

    saugmon Senior member

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    Hello blueandy, brobear gave you an excellent free program to download and get the manufacture code from those clone discs. Even ritek makes some low quality discs like go1 and go2. The identifier will tell you if they are any of these 2 or go3,go4,and go5.

    Here is a handy website than can get some of the information of those codes: http://www.digitalfaq.com/media/dvdmedia.htm
    It hasn't been updated for a while but you can use it as a basic guide.That code will help explain. Every burner is different on which brands they burn.

    Your question on why desk top players have trouble but not the pc:

    Your pc should be able to play those backups and they should play excellent. The driver that burned it has to play it.Since your pc and stand alone player freezes at the end of the disc,target size should be reduced. This is the area of uneven dyes in some discs.

    Here is where the stand alone players come in,desk top players, They are the players that these backups will play on right? Some of them have a harder time reading dvd+r and dvd-r.Stand alone players are like dvd burners,everyone of them are different.At least your player is recognizing it. Symptoms of stand alone players using poor,too fast burn,or plain old just don't like that certain brand of media: Freezing,pixellating,jumping,skipping,no disc inserted errors,and many more issues.

    I have my dvd shrink target size at 4300 mbs.Like brobear and jim_dandy stated,should fix your problem.

    Let us know what that code is. Later
     
  7. brobear

    brobear Guest

    I've been around for over 6 months and I don't remember Clonedisc (Ritek) being recommended. Why are you being so secretive anyway? We ask for some simple straight forward info and you act like it's a conspiracy. You came to the forum... remember. Who was this supplier anyway and what is the URL to the website? I've seen some shady characters on the forum. In fact in the UK there was a scam involving the Clonedisc media you mention about 6 months ago. There's a good question, what country do you live in?

    I gave you the download links for a free identifier tool. Why didn't you use it and supply the manufacturer code for the media? Another conspiracy problem, or you don't want to be cooperative. I'm curious to see what the code is. It will either confirm this mysterious supplier of yours or not.

    Even better would be downloading DVDInfoPro (free) and running the test on that program. You get the write strategies as well as the code. Do that and post the entire contents of the test page. Directions: put disc in burner, open DVDInfoPro, select Media disc icon upper left (icon navigation row), burner should be in lower left window (if not select it). The page should contain info similar to this.

    Media Information
    Region information N/A not a DVD-VIDEO
    Media code/Manufacturer ID RICOHJPNR01
    Media Product Revision Number 02h
    Format Capacity Blank Disc
    Free Blocks 405405696
    Free Capacity 4.38GB(4.70GB)
    Book Type DVD+R
    Media Type DVD+R
    Manufacturer Rated Speed 4.0x 5540KBps
    Available Write Descriptor CLV 4.0x 5540KBps
    Available Write Descriptor CLV 2.4x 3324KBps
    Data area starting sector 30000h
    Linear Density 0.267um/bit
    Track Density 0.74um/track
    Number of Layers 1

    Complete Media Code
    00000000 08 02 00 00 A1 0F 02 00 00 03 00 00 00 26 05 3F .............&.?
    00000010 00 00 00 00 00 00 01 52 49 43 4F 48 4A 50 4E 52 .......RICOHJPNR
    00000020 30 31 02 38 23 54 37 09 00 3C 67 00 AC 62 16 18 01.8#T7..<g..b..
    00000030 0B 0B 0A 0B 01 19 1B 0B 0B 0E 0F 01 00 00 00 00 ................

    While you're testing, click the icon with the disc and magnifying glass, that'll check the disc for errors. It would be interesting to see how a blank tests out and then check the recorded disk that is causing the problem.

    Strange that burn speed would be max or 1X unless you have an older burner or there is a problem with the media. What brand and model burner do you have and what is the max burn speed for the -R media? If this is an older burner, have you updated the firmware? For that matter, if it is new out of the box it still needs to be checked. They come up with updates while the units are moving down the assembly lines.

    As far as CloneDisc, it is an obscure brand. Never seen it sold by the big net dealers in North America. They appear to be selling them in the UK and strangely enough I found one dealer saying his is top grade but the competition is selling low grade. Wonder what his commpetition says? LOL

    As far as the desktop player and PC. Usually it's the PC that is picky. Differences in equipment, sometimes one just doesn't know with quirky problems.
     
  8. brobear

    brobear Guest

  9. jim_dandy

    jim_dandy Active member

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    Ive been around for over a year, and I agree,ive never heard much said(good or otherwise) about clonedisc.

    I have seen alot of bad media recommended.I was told by one guy in here, that CMC MAG. is only used on the best(cough cough)media... WRONG!! CMC is only good for one thing...target practice LOL
    Ive also found, that when someone doesnt want to say what media he/she is using,its usually something cheap, he/she bought a couple hundred of,and doesnt want to admit that it might indeed be bad media,and the money spent, was more or less wasted.(dont feel bad I have several memorex ill sell you cheap)LOL
    Thats why nowadays, instead of telling them to scrap what they have, and go buy something better.I suggest changing target size, and reducing burn speed.
    I agree also with my pal brobear(who really knows his stuff btw) you need to check your firmware for an update.

    blaze em if you got em
    jim
     
  10. blueandy

    blueandy Member

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    Hi Guys

    No secrecy, Im simply an inexperienced person calling for help in what is marked up as a Newbie Forum.

    I had to wait until I got to my office this morning to find out the supplier website details etc to find out what disks they were, which I duly posted in my last message, no conspiracy intended. Now Im home again I can answer the various subsequent questions (hopefully the answers will give some pointers).

    Here is the info copied to clipboard from dvdinfo. Sorry if the formatting has gone astray cant work out how to solve this as the message window is wrapping the text.

    Media Information
    Disc Regions are 1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8
    Media code/Manufacturer ID RITEKG04
    Format Type UDF 1.02
    Volume Name NEW
    Application id
    Implementation id AHEAD Nero
    Recording Date/Time (mm/dd/yyyy) 1/24/2005 16:39:10
    Format Capacity 4.36GB(4.68GB)
    Book Type DVD-R
    Media Type DVD-R
    Manufacturer Rated Speed 4.0x 5540KBps
    Available Write Descriptor CLV 4.0x 5540KBps
    Available Write Descriptor CLV 2.0x 2770KBps
    Write Strategy Speed 4.0x 5540KBps
    2x Speed OPC beta 08
    2x Speed OPC power 12
    2x Write Strategy field 1 11 86 67 80
    2x Write Strategy field 2 88 80 00 00 00 00
    4x Speed OPC beta 05
    4x Speed OPC power 1B
    4x Write Strategy field 1 0E 10 08 09
    4x Write Strategy field 2 97 06 0D 0B
    4x Write Strategy field 3 00 00 00 00
    4x Speed OPC beta multi-pulse 04
    4x Speed OPC power multi-pulse 1D
    4x Write Strategy field 4 18 A8 88 85
    4x Write Strategy field 5 89 AC 88 80 00 00
    4x Write Strategy field 6 00 00 D0 00 00
    Data area starting sector 30000h
    Data area end sector 22E21Fh
    Linear Density 0.267um/bit
    Track Density 0.74um/track
    Number of Layers 1

    Complete Media Code
    00000000 00 6A 00 00 01 40 C1 FD 9E D8 52 00 02 76 0E 14 .j...@....R..v..
    00000010 88 9A 80 00 03 52 49 54 45 4B 47 00 04 30 34 00 .....RITEKG..04.
    00000020 00 00 00 00 05 88 80 00 00 00 01 00 06 08 12 11 ................


    Here is the info from the other program dvd identifier, which seems a little clearer:

    Unique Disc Identifier : [DVD-R:RITEKG04]
    -------------------------------------------------------
    Disc & Book Type : [DVD-R] - [DVD-R]
    Manufacturer Name : [Ritek Corp.]
    Manufacturer ID : [RITEKG04]
    Blank Disc Capacity : [2,298,496 Sectors = 4,489.3MB = 4.38GB (4.71GB)]
    Recording Speeds : [1x , 2x , 4x]
    [6x And Higher Might Not Always Be Detectable]
    -------------------------------------------------------
    [ DVD Identifier - http://DVD.Identifier.CDfreaks.com ]
    -------------------------------------------------------


    The company here in the UK that sold them to me are www.dvd-and-media.com, and someone on one of the forums here, either gave me or listed the web address back last summer when I bought the burner. I remember checking with this supplier before buying and saying what my equipment was, and what I wanted to do.

    The dvd I copied over the weekend was jerky on the standalone, and was jerky in a slightly different place when played back on my PC. I then re burned a dvd and got the above report info. The new dvd was burnt in Nero this time using a 2x speed which I selected manually. This played back fine on the PC but was jerky in a different place and not quite as much on the standalone player.

    I'll try the amended setting in DVD Shrink next time I use the software to get away from the edge.

    Ive next run the media test and numerous error LBA's have shown up towards the end of the test, (not forgetting this played fine on the computer) at about 93% onwards testing position. Presumably if I run the test against a dvd which was fine on both players, no errors will show at all.

    The burner I use is HL-DT-STDVDRAM GSA-4120B which is made by a company called LG, and received rave reviews in the computer press over here in the UK before I bought it. Ive not checked for Firmware upgrades for a couple of months, so will see if I can find anything there later this evening, just incase.

    I think Ive answered all of the questions ... over to you guys... your guidance is appreciated. Im also off now to have a closer look at the digital faq website referred to previously.

    If as it is looking the media consistency, ultimately thats the problem, Ive got to buy some new in anycase, as the spindle is down to about the last 10 disks...what recommendations can you make, and equally so can you recommend any UK suppliers other than the one I used last time.
     
    Last edited: Jan 24, 2005
  11. brobear

    brobear Guest

    Mr. Yang and his cronies. He and some other vendors were having a little war on the forums and the members and the consumers were the losers. www.dvd-and-media.com This was the site I mentioned earlier that says their merchandise is tops, but the same thing sold by their competitors is junk. Sounds like this was some of the questionable media floating around. That is the URL Mr Yang has or had in his signature here on AD.

    The recommendation is to buy quality branded media from a reliable source with a good guarantee. Some emphasis needs placed on branded. Most often the branded media is the better quality media (having the brand name on label). Verbatim, Maxell, TDK, Ricoh, and Sony are some good products. Ritek is a good disc if you buy the branded top line merchandise. In the UK especially, there was scamming with substandard Ritek media. If you have to have printable discs, at least be sure you're getting the top line merchandise. If you're going to get Ritek, buy Ritek; not an unknown like Clonedisc.

    Now that I know what you have and where you got it, I can just about bet the problems you're getting are from the media.

    With the error testing, you can have some errors with a disc that plays perfect. When you have an abundance of errors and they coincide with the area on the disc where the problem occurrs, then it is obvious you have a fault there. Run a test on a blank recordable Clonedisc and the factory DVD and see what the readings and chart look like. Then recheck the disc after the burn. If there's a bunch of faults on the recordable disc before it's burned, then you know you may be getting a questionable burn.

    Getting the copy of the info was okay. I knew what I was reading on the DVDInfopro and there is a lot more usable info. Plus DVDInfoPro does those nice tests as well. It formats your RWs for you as well (check the disk icons with a pencil). It's a nice tool. I have the retail version without the adverts.

    On finding media in the UK, good luck. Beware the forums. As you can see, with Mr Yang and a bunch of others, the forums became infested with vendors hawking their wares and putting down their competitors. Just remember to buy a quality name branded product from a reputable dealer with a good guarantee.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 24, 2005
  12. blueandy

    blueandy Member

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    At least you confirmed my memory was not playing up with the source :)

    Point noted about the different brands etc etc, Im slightly confused in that you say Ritek is also still Ok but not from this source, but exactly what should I be looking / asking for in terms of speed, grade etc

    Reason behind this is the disks I bought are now advertised on the site as Ritek in their own right, with also known as Clone Disk included in brackets.

    If others do this I could have same problem, as presumably other brand names also have their disks under other names - it seems a real minefield.

    I dont need disks with printable tops which these had, I just want something to record on and play !!!

    Thanks for everything.

     
  13. brobear

    brobear Guest

    Ritek as in the Ritek brand disk with the Ritek manufacture code. (Well not always because the +R they were selling was Ricoh.) I don't know if whoever supplies the Clonedisk got a batch of inferior media or intentionally bought some low quality merchandise. Whatever, from all I hear, Clonedisk is to be avoided; for some of the obvious reasons like yours. When Ritek puts their name on the Brand, it appears to be their quality product. So, if you want Ritek, get the "Grade A Branded Ritek" not a no name produced with a Ritek code.

    If you believe everything you see in ads, they'd have you buying the Clonedisks again. The situation here is that over all, Ritek has a good rep, or at least in the North American market. Clonedisk, an obscure brand has a bad rep, even if it has media with the Ritek code. So, Ritek as the Ritek brand and for a number of brands has proven to be good. CloneDisk however is something to avoid.

    Minefield... You got that right.
     
  14. blueandy

    blueandy Member

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    its definitely a case of buy a small quantity and see.....and then hope any reorders are ok as well....

    thanks
     
  15. brobear

    brobear Guest

    Well, the standard purchase procedure is that one should buy a reputable branded product, from a reputable vendor, with a good guarantee. So good luck.

     
  16. blueandy

    blueandy Member

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    A follow up on the problems I had.

    After careful consideration and checking comments on the net about my dvd player, and my pc burner I decided to give Verbatim a go.

    I bought some called Verbatim Advanced AZO, which had Verbatim all over the disks themselves. Using the software suggested earlier, these showed me a code of MCC02RG20, reading threads elsewhere I see that AZO designates Mitsubishi dvds - so Im totally confused as to what they are. Mitsubishi are rated good, Verbatim average !

    Anyway I have reburnt half a dozen disks so far, and checked them carefully with no problems, straight after one of the burns, I reburnt the same film on one of the old Clonedisks - sure enough quality was rubbish.

    Thanks everyone - any comments on the manufacturer of the disks Im now using would be great.
     
  17. brobear

    brobear Guest

    Ever think some of those rating systems are done by people who don't know what they're doing.

    An MCC disk is a quality product whether made for TDK, Sony, Maxell, or Verbatim. In many cases the media carries the same production code, the only difference is in the brand labeling. So, how could one rate a MCC (the manufacturer) higher than their product (Verbatim)? Then again what Verbatim, because the brand sells merchandise by more than one manufacturer? I think you can see the lunacy in trying to compare manufacturers and brands. The lines are too vague when a brand name is mentioned, due to the fact brands often sell more than one manufacturer's product. For instance, when you say Verbatim, do you mean MCC, Ricoh, CMC, or Taiyo Yuden?

    AZO is a dye type used by MCC. AZO dyes are not exclusive to MCC and has caused some mixup to consumers. Not all azo dyes are good just because they have azo. GREAT AZO appears to have cashed in on the name. BTW, Great Azo isn't one of the top rated media. If one pays attention, Verbatim markets a disc labeled for Data Storage that has Metal Azo on it. As was aptly put before, discussing brands, manufacturers and quality is something of a minefield and one has to be very specific about what media they're talking about, down to the manufacturer code.
     
  18. brobear

    brobear Guest

    BTW, you act as though you didn't want to believe jim_dandy and the others when they told you it could be a media problem. jim has been around quite a while and is very knowledgable on the subject of DVD recording. Just to be a Senior, as in my case, you have to read a lot of posts. So, a name like CloneDisk would ring a few bells. Sometimes being leery of what one reads on forums is good advice, not all you'll see makes sense. After all, someone gave you the advice to buy bad media before. Just try not to carry the cynicism too far.
     
  19. blueandy

    blueandy Member

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    At no point have I been cynical. Please dont lose sight that this is a forum for "newbies" to post help messages in.

    I did this with my call for help - I wasnt aware of all the progs out there to get more info from disks etc. at the time of posting, otherwise I could have used them.

    I gave information to the best of my limited knowledge as and when I knew things.

    Is it really my fault that I believed someone on one of the forums ? -- (someone who yourselves said had been debated much and that consumers and users on the forum were the losers, all this after I had last used the forum).

    All along I have been grateful for the help and guidance offered. Ive reread the postings and fail to see where i have been cynical at all, I have reported what my understandings of things were and findings as they came to light, and asked further qustions as i thought of them.

    I've been accused of being secretive, yet I gave the details I had found out about the media after being asked for it, I also requested feedback on the info I had found -- how was that being cynical of anyone ???

    Come on guys - you people are the "experts" no doubt because you invest a lot of time in the subject, please dont forget that we are not all "experts" or ever will be.

    I for one am grateful of the support I was given, and that is why I passed further feedback as to what had happened, and took time to say thanks for the support - as opposed to asking a question, taking the info and then disappearing.
     
  20. brobear

    brobear Guest

    From the statement it appeared you needed to check in extreme detail before considering the possibility that what was said about the media was plausable. That and your having been burned by some characters on the forum previously, on your current media, appeared to show a certain amount of cynicism. (Not taking ones word in such an instance and seeking corroborating support is after all an act of cynicism.) If that doesn't appear as cynicism, what do you want us to consider it as? Rhetorical question. You stated your point of view and that there was no intent toward being cynical.

    Glad you got your problem resolved and everything is working okay now. Seems there may have been a matter of semantics with no one meaning anything to be negative. As I said, there is nothing wrong with a bit of cynicism as long as it isn't taken too far and no one said you went too far. So, there was no need to be defensive. If you weren't being defensive, then I guess I read that one wrong as well. Give me an F in behavior and drum me out of the forum.

    Have fun with the recording and we're here to help when we can.
     

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