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Finally started using Rebuilder/CCE was it worth it?

Discussion in 'DVD / BD-Rebuilder forum' started by tjlmbklr, Feb 17, 2007.

  1. tjlmbklr

    tjlmbklr Member

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    When I first started burns I was using Shrink/Decrypter. I made a few copies but was overall unhappy with the quality of the picture. Then my PM'ing compadra Mort81 helped me out on learning how to use Rebuilder with CCE (thanks again). I guess I can't complain, the copies are indistigisable. But I am frustrated at the time it take for the overall process. I am going to try a memory upgrade for starters. So I decided to download the free trials of CloneDVD and AnyDVD. I picked a movie I already have (Training Day) did a side by side comparison, and can't see a difference (well loading time in between). I am veiwing on a 55' TV too. So was I just over reacting?, The copy I felt that I made origanally was Catch me if you can. And I was very disapointed with the graininess and dulness of some seens. I only assumed it was because it was a copy, that the quality was degraded. I unfortunately never did a side by side, I just assumed the origanal couldn't possibly look that bad. I also should point out before I was using Memorex DVD+R(SL) and have since bought Verbatim DL's. But I believe my compression was at 100% with that movie I left out everything but the movie itself when I used Shrink.

    So did I blow my money out the window with CCE basic($58) or will I notice better results on some copies over others. I still haven't pick a movie to burn that I was overall pleased with it picture to try.

    Concerned
    TJ
     
  2. Deadrum33

    Deadrum33 Active member

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    It took watching a movie that was about 80% (Shrink main movie only)
    before CCE really took over. Shrink has quality settings of course, but no comparison. Especially LOTR Trilogy (3 hour movies) and Star Wars Episodes 1-3 with newer effects and animation.
    Clone is a transcoder like Shrink I believe, while DVD-RB encodes so it will end up better.

    DVD-RB vs. 1 click encoders


    I'm glad I took the step.
     
  3. MaxBurn

    MaxBurn Regular member

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    I use rebuilder for movies that shrink or clonedvd2 reports as 60% quality or below, and its something that i want to keep all the extras. Rebuilder is worth it for those kind of situations. For most other movies i use anydvd and clonedvd2 for most things, although it gives less quality and you can see the effects of a one pass transcode on higher compression movies. On shrink make sure you are checking all the extra quality settings when you click on the backup button quality settings tab. It will take a little more time, but the output is worth it. 2 passes seems to eliminate most of the graininess as the transcoder does a better job on things like dark backgrounds. Sometimes the original movie is dark and poorly shot, but most of the times it is the effects of trying to put a 7 or 8GB movie on a 4.5 GB disc. Something has to give. If you burn DL, you shouldnt notice any difference between your copy and the original as you are not compressing anything. The disc used can make a difference, and the Verbs you have are a good choice, but the Memorex media has some very crappy media suppliers, so i avoid them like the plague.
     
    Last edited: Feb 17, 2007
  4. poolpro

    poolpro Regular member

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    I hear a lot of people that have CCE but I ask how do so many people have it if it costs $2000.00 ? All I see is the trial version of this software so how can I get CCE as well? I am really interested in this program because I heard it is the best of the best for movies.
     
  5. teflonmyk

    teflonmyk Regular member

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  6. tjlmbklr

    tjlmbklr Member

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    thank you all!
     
  7. herbsman

    herbsman Moderator Staff Member

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    It's CCE SP that costs $2,000 , it is just the more professional version poolpro :)
     
  8. poolpro

    poolpro Regular member

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    ya I got it herb. thanks to everyone who had input regarding this question.
     
  9. Mort81

    Mort81 Senior member

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    tj,

    I told you prior to you investing in cce that rb/cce is a very cpu intensive program and time consuming especially for slower pc's. I told you to expect about 4+ hours on an average movie with your pc. More ram won't hurt but the cpu is where it counts.

    Don't expect the encode times to be much under 2 hours unless you have a dual core cpu. I can encode an average size movie with the extras (no previews, adverts, or warning screens), around 6.5gb's in about 40 minutes.

    You can't expect rb/cce to improve the quality of a backup that has already been compressed with a transcoding program. The damage has already been done by the transcoder. Use rb/cce on the folder ripped from the original uncompressed dvd.

    You won't see a lot of difference between a backup made with rb/cce and one made with a transcoding utility on jobs requiring 20% compression or less. You will notice the difference on those jobs requiring 30% compression or more.

    I've encoded many folders requiring almost 50% compression and the quality was unbelievable. Almost indistinguishable from the original on my 52" hdtv.

    I just finished a project where I put the complete season 5 of 24 on 3 verbatim DL dvd's. They were originally on 6 pressed DL dvd's. I removed the garbage and merged 2 dvd's into 1 folder with dvdremake. The three folders were about 14.5gb's each. I then encoded with rb/cce (3 passes) in DL media mode, let rb build an iso file and burn with imgburn. That's 6 hours of video on each dvd. The quality is amazing and better than if I was watching 24 on fox (excluding fox hd).
     
  10. tjlmbklr

    tjlmbklr Member

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    Thanks Mort, I wasn't necessarily complaining about the time it takes to do the back ups. I knew that was going to be long. My concern was the quality differences between the different software’s.

    But what you said here:
    If only using RI4M and Decrypter, then Rebuilder after on the original DVD I should be fine right? Or is the Decrypter causing a loss in quality. If so I am still a little confused here on how to eliminate that process.

    TJ
     
    Last edited: Feb 22, 2007
  11. Mort81

    Mort81 Senior member

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    Right dvd decrypter won't cause any loss in quality. Load the folder into shrink or clone dvd and if it requires 20% or less compression, use one of them. If it takes more than 20% I recommend rb/cce.
     
  12. tjlmbklr

    tjlmbklr Member

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    Cool; Thanks
     
    Last edited: Feb 22, 2007
  13. PacMan777

    PacMan777 Regular member

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    I didn't see mention of screen size. That also makes a difference in viewing quality differences. I watch my backups on a 60" screen and I can see the difference when the compression gets high. For instance, Casino Royale was near 54% compression for the full DVD. With extras deleted it was still near 70%. That was a good job for RB. I did the full DVD backup and the quality was excellent on the 60". Even with Quality Settings I've had Shrink backups skip and have mosquitoes along with the occasional pixelation at such heavy compression.
     
  14. Mort81

    Mort81 Senior member

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    PacMan,

    ya I agree. I only use rb/cce anymore for all my backups regardless of compression. with my E6600 C2D time is no longer a factor. Not that it really was with my old P4 northwood 3.4 but my C2D E6600 @ 3.4 is about 2 1/2 - 3 times faster. can't beat rb/cce for quality. I've even done several backups where the reduction level was less than 50% and they looked great on my 52" hdtv. I watched flyboys last night, reduction level 51.7% and I couldn't tell it from the original.
     
  15. maxxjulie

    maxxjulie Regular member

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    it's not much better than dvd shrink so it's a waste of time and $ to use dvd-rb and cce. i've done tests comparing the two and there is barely a difference in picture quality enen though i set cce to 3 passes. shrink is slightly worse, but much much quicker and simple to use. dvd rb requires you to find a guide online to get the most out of it. one encodes from scratch and the other is a transcoder, but you can hardly tell when comparing backups made by both. people have it in their head that the picture is soooo much better with rb and cce before they even watch the backup. it's pure myth. anyone that uses 50% compression using any software and finds the backup indistinguishable from the original is also blind as a bat. on a 52 inch tv too. lol. yeah, right. shrink backups skipping is a result of your pc having a problem, not shrink.
     
    Last edited: Apr 1, 2007
  16. vurbal

    vurbal Administrator Staff Member

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    It's nice that you can speak for other people, but some of us can see a big difference. I've never compressed a movie with Shrink, but I have a friend who used to. Whenever he put in one of those movies I could easily tell on his 27" TV. Once he switched to DVD-RB and CCE I stopped being able to tell when he was playing a backup and when it was an original. I'm not doubting that there's no big difference to you. That's true for many people, but on the other hand it's completely false for others.
     
  17. Mort81

    Mort81 Senior member

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    maxxjulie,

    you are entitled to your opinions and preferances. I started out using dvd shrink and have also tried and own many other transcoding utilities as well. each utility has it's own purpose and place. if you will notice I did say that at 20% compression or less, there wasn't much difference between RB/CCE and most transcoding utilities.

    almost all the backups I make, the folder is between 6.0gb and 7.0gb because I save everything except the previews, adverts, and warning screens. there is absolutely no way a transcoding utility could compress a 7.0gb folder without substantial video quality loss. RB/CCE can encode folders this size with minimal loss in video quality. why would I make this up? I do watch every backup I make.

    also as I mentioned previously, I have a very fast pc, faster than the average, so time is of no concern to me since I can encode with RB/CCE faster than the average person can transcode with dvd shrink with advanced analysis and using hqaec. oh and btw, I have 20/20 vision and if you compress to much with a transcoding utility, it can cause irratic playback (skipping and freezing).

    look around and you will see that most of the addicts and senior members and people like myself that prefer the best possible video quality (without spending big bucks for profesional software) will recommend RB/CCE for projects that requires more than 20% compression.

    if you choose not to use RB/CCE, that is your prerogative. you obviously are not as much of a perfectionest or as particular about video quality as I.
     
    Last edited: Apr 1, 2007
  18. PacMan777

    PacMan777 Regular member

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    You normally see me posting in the Shrink section. I know that program inside out. I even saved my own low content still image to use for editing in Full Disc. Between RipIt4Me and Shrink, I regret having bought some of the retail software. But anytime I can try a new toy I usually get my money's worth. Luckily a lot of the programs were gifts. Familly and friends know how I like a new program. But as far as transcoders go, Shrink is as good as most retail. Many people complain because Shrink is a bit slow in comparison to some of the retail programs, like one of my favorites, DVDCopy5.

    As Mort81 and others say, the approximate point to leave transcoders and go to encoders, if you have one, is about 20%. With transcoders heavy compression can cause different problems. It's not always the PC, at high compression, it's the software not capable of handling the task. Skips, pixelation, and poor video are common complaints. I wouldn't do a transcoder backup at 60% if I cared anything about the quality. I've gotten so used to using Rebuilder that I often do my backups in the program whether or not compression is an issue. I can do a batch and my system has enough resources that I can multitask, so time isn't a problem. I've got huge hard drives, so space isn't either.

    As Mort81 mentioned, light compression and there is little to no difference. But when it starts climbing past 25-30%, it starts getting more noticable fast, especially with higher bitrates and larger screens. Nowadays HDTV is also adding a need for better quality.
     
    Last edited: Apr 1, 2007
  19. BobbyBlu

    BobbyBlu Guest

    Question then if i have a movie that i want could i just put it on a verb DL & not need rebuilder with CCE ?
     
  20. PacMan777

    PacMan777 Regular member

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