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Having trouble with shrink being choppy

Discussion in 'DVD±R for advanced users' started by geestar20, Jun 25, 2004.

  1. geestar20

    geestar20 Active member

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    I have never had trouble with shrink before until yesterday, when I tried to back up a movie, I usually re-author it and preview it before backing up, well, I pressed play and it was real choppy, I thought it was my drive cause it played smooth in my other drive so just for shit's and giggles I played a movie in window's media player and no choppyness in either drive.
    I tried uninstalling shrink then reinsatalling with no luck. Is it my drive or some type of bug.
    Also I tried to back up my movie anyway and it was taking twice as long cause it was being choppy in the preview screen.

    Need some assistance PLEASE.

    [edited by Mod: nice pic in your sig BUT a little big ... either reduce or replace it please]
     
    Last edited: Jun 25, 2004
  2. vurbal

    vurbal Administrator Staff Member

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    Well first off, you should disable the preview when you're backing up to keep from slowing down the compression. As far as it being choppy now when it wasn't before, you might want to use the task manager ([ctrl][alt][del] and go to the processes tab) to see if there is something using a lot of CPU time, which could cause this problem.
     
  3. geestar20

    geestar20 Active member

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    I never use the preview window, but did so just to see if it was still choppy while analysing and encoding, and it is.
    I also went into task manager and I have 30 thing's running in which none of them are using cpu time except Sytem Idle Process. Still choppy

    WIll edit my sig- Thank's


     
  4. vurbal

    vurbal Administrator Staff Member

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    Okay, I can see using it for that. In fact I'll file that away for future use - good idea! Have you checked to see if your drive is running in DMA or PIO mode? If there were a few read errors (which you might not have even known about) Windows will set your drive to PIO mode, which could certainly cause this problem. If you don't know how to check, this link should help: http://www.microsoft.com/whdc/device/storage/IDE-DMA.mspx

    If there have been enough CRC errors (6 I think - thanks drchips!) you will probably have to remove the burner in the device manager and let Windows reinstall it as a new drive. Otherwise it will be locked in PIO mode. You may even have to go as far as removing the IDE controller in the device manager and letting it reinstall that as well.

    Edit: If your drive is in DMA mode, you might also want to check out this recent thread:
    http://forums.afterdawn.com/thread_view.cfm/1/90042
    _X_X_X_X_X_[small]In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move.
    Backup A DVD With DVD Rebuilder & CCE Basic: http://www.afterdawn.com/guides/archive/dvd_rebuilder_tutorial.cfm[/small]
     
    Last edited: Jun 25, 2004
  5. geestar20

    geestar20 Active member

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    I have went into mt device manager and checked to see if they were set to pio or DMA and device 0 and device 1 is set to DMA if available.
    I will try removing the IDE controller in the device manager and letting it reinstall
     
  6. geestar20

    geestar20 Active member

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    alrighty now, I have uninstalled my dvd-rom drive,this is what I did,
    I first turned off my computer, then I diconnected my drive from the cables and turned my computer back on and went into my device manager and uninstalled my drive, turned off my computer (did not select restart) then turned it back on and I made sure that my drive was not there and it was not, so I turned off my computer again plugged in my cables and and started up my computer and it identified a new device (which was my drive) and still doing the same thing in shrink.

    This is very weird cause I have no problem with window's media player , PowerDvd, or InterActual player, but I do have problems with my burning programs like Nero, Shrink, Decrypter, AL120%, BW5.
    Do you think the laser power when trying to read is going low. Like I said before my Pioneer 107D has no problems with any off these programs or these problems.

    Im not sure but does it use more laser power for shrink or nero to read than to play or is that not a factor, or is my drive just going bad.
     
  7. Doc409

    Doc409 Active member

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    It sounds more like a CPU-RAM resource problem rather than a drive hardware problem. Decrypter is a lot easier on system resources, so I would suggest you try to rip the DVD with Decrypter in File mode, and then play the files in your player. If this comes out smoothe, this points towards a Shrink-system resource problem.

    One of the best indicators is by running Task Manager/Performance while using Shrink. If you will post these results for the following categories, I'll let you know what conclusion I come to:

    1. "CPU Usage" (how high, and what percent of the time)
    And, under the "Physical Memory" box the values for
    2. Total
    3. Available
    4. System Cache
    And
    5. your virtual memory settings (Control Panel/System/Advanced/Performance)



     
  8. Doc409

    Doc409 Active member

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    I inadvertently left out the need for: 6. the actual memory usage value...which appears under the CPU graph, or in the the lower right-hand corner.
     
  9. geestar20

    geestar20 Active member

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    cant narrow cpu usage down since it jumps alot
    commit charge is 172M / 1155M
    Physical memory (K)
    Total 523760
    Available 323xxx
    System cache 3283xx (xxx means numbers jump)

    PF usage 173mb
    I have 512MB of Ram just to let you know.
    And for my virtual memory settings in the perfomance tab this is what is selected -let Windows choose whats best for my computer- and all the boxes are checked under that.

    in the advanced tab my virtual memory says -Total paging file size for all drives: 672MB
    When I select the -Change- button the C: is the only one that -Paging file size-
    Inintial size (MB) 672
    Maximum size (MB) 1344


    am I giving the right info?
    _X_X_X_X_X_[small]I have 80% truth to my lie. "The Last BoyScout"
    I tell the truth.. Even when I lie. "SCARFACE"

    [image]http://www.123dj.com/slipmats/DJ.jpg[/image][/small]
     
    Last edited: Jun 27, 2004
  10. geestar20

    geestar20 Active member

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    When ever I use shrink or decrypter the cpu usage is mostly or alway's around 100% while decrypting or analysing
     
  11. Doc409

    Doc409 Active member

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    Yeah...the info is useful...especially the virtual memory part. It sounds like the choppiness is due to running out of VM with the 100% CPU usage. With this kind of large file app, you need to set the min and max of VM yourself. I've recently set mine a 4 GB, and a senior member recently stated they also use as much as 4 GB with large file apps like this.

    See if this helps. If not, I have some other ideas...and please give your CPU specs and OS. Also, you didn't say if Decrypter was choppy...or maxed out the CPU?
     
  12. Doc409

    Doc409 Active member

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    Sorry...I've been in a bit of a rush today. When setting the VM...the Initial and Maximum size need to be set to the same value. I believe 4000MB should be fine for starters.

    Also, your physical RAM numbers do look OK. And, I also see now where you said that Decrypter ran at 100% CPU...but you didn't state if these Decrypter files were choppy when played? This could tell you a lot.

    After the VM change, check to see if Shrink is still choppy. If so, then check Decrypter. Please post the results along with CPU usage for both programs. If neither program looks like they are going to clear, I'll point you in another direction.

     
  13. geestar20

    geestar20 Active member

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    well I used decrypter and it took 1hr and 5min to decrypt "True Lies" which is 7.76GB I then used shrink to view the movie and it was perfect. Don't know why it takes so long now, before it would take know more than 20 or 30 minutes to (with shrink) analyse and encode a movie this big AND know more than 20 minutes (with Decrypter) to decrpyter.

    I will try another test with shrink to do it's whole process and view it in nero image drive to see if it's choppy or freezes on every frame, if it's ok then I guess I will have to hurry up and wait from now on.

    I know there was another thread somewhere that posted "Shrink has slowed down" will have to look at that, if I can find it
     
  14. geestar20

    geestar20 Active member

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    I have another question? why only my dvd-rom drive (Lite on JLMS XJ-HD 166S) that does this and not my dvd rw drive (Pioneer DVR-107D)
     
  15. Doc409

    Doc409 Active member

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    Well...things seem to be on the right track. Being that Shrink used to take 20 min, I'm guessing that you have a P4 2.4+ Ghz w/WinXP???

    It is possible the VM change didn't quite "take". Re-check the new values, be sure to press the "Set" button next to them, and then shut down the computer completely. When you reboot, XP will then make a new page file and utilize the new values.

    I'm speculating here...but I believe the burner has a 2MB buffer built-in...and the Liteon DVD-ROM does not. As such, the Liteon requires immediate throughput (while the Pioneer can wait). If the VM on the HDD was full when the CPU needed to write to the HDD, or if Windows had to take time to manage this function with the CPU already red-lined at 100% on file crunching, the process likely choked...resulting in the loss of data (choppy results). The VM change will likely fix things now. If not, there is another direction to go with these symptoms.







     
  16. geestar20

    geestar20 Active member

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    ok. here we gooooo!
    I set my Initial size to 4000MB
    I set my Maximum size to 4000MB

    I restarted my computer a tryed shrink... still the same.
    Maybe my drive is crapping out on me :S

    do you think I should try switching my drive's from slave to master. Liteon is master right now and Pioneer is slave. just asking before I take off my cover again
     
  17. Doc409

    Doc409 Active member

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    Personally...I wouldn't use the Liteon for any kind of ripping at all because it doesn't have a buffer. I believe its streamed data puts too much of a load on the CPU cache...which should be dedicated to crunching VOB's as much as possible. That is why it is also a good idea to turn off unnecessary background ops.

    If you do keep the Liteon in your system, make it a slave, and only use it to watch playbacks and to test your burns.

    Also, I don't think anything is wrong with either DVD drive. I'm beginning to get the idea that, because Windows was managing the VM for you, that it severely fragmented the HDD trying to page out the [lost]data. Now that you've allocated VM space, this fragging should be minimal. So, I would suggest a good file cleaning and defragging right after you re-cable your DVD drives. Be sure to post the results.
     
  18. geestar20

    geestar20 Active member

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    I'll be sure to do so.

    I thought my drive was going to be used as a disected frogg, I was this close to getting a new drive but now that you said that, I will let it eat flies for now.
     
  19. Nephilim

    Nephilim Moderator Staff Member

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    I must respectfully and vehemently diasagree. There's nothing wrong with, and everything right about, using a ROM to rip. Buffers aren't needed for ripping, they come into play when burning to ensure a constant data stream to avoid buffer underruns. I've the same Lite-On drive and use it exclusively for ripping my DVDs (very quickly I might add).


    Just for future reference, you need only uninstall it through Device Manager, not physically uninstall it. Much easier that way :)


    Was this using your burner? Burners come from the factory with the read speed locked to 2X which would explain the long rip time.


    That's not normal for the ripping process. Encoding on the other hand is extremely CPU intensive so high CPU usage during encoding is normal.


    Ideally it should be the other way around and on separate cables if possible. Don't forget to set the jumpers on the back of the drives correctly.


    It may be worthwhile to use a lens cleaner on your Lite On. You live in Phoenix like I do and we both know how much dust we have getting into everything!

    _X_X_X_X_X_[small][​IMG]
    JMLS-166S/Plextor PX-708A/Plextor Premium

    My Movies! http://www.intervocative.com/dvdcollection.aspx/Rephaim[/small]
     
    Last edited: Jun 28, 2004
  20. geestar20

    geestar20 Active member

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    got it!

    I rip the movie with my Liton. I alway's use my Liteon to rip all my files. It's my work Horse!

    I told my lady to use my dvd lens cleaner to clean the lens on my DVD-rom--maybe she did the wrong one. HEHE

    what about a possible firmware?


    _X_X_X_X_X_[small]I have 80% truth to my lie. "The Last BoyScout"
    I tell the truth.. Even when I lie. "SCARFACE"

    [image]http://www.123dj.com/slipmats/DJ.jpg[/image][/small]
     
    Last edited: Jun 28, 2004

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