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Help on Poor Quality AVI Capture

Discussion in 'Video capturing from analog sources' started by MauriceB, Mar 31, 2004.

  1. MauriceB

    MauriceB Member

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    I’m pulling my hair out trying to figure out why I have poor AVI capture from VHS or 8mm tape. I have used many other programs and no matter the settings, codec, etc. they don’t have an affect on improving quality. I compared several captures at 320x280 using other programs but VirtualVCR was better at this 320x280 setting than say, Studio 8. When I changed VirtualVCR resolution to 720x480, the AVI became degraded again.

    I’m trying to capture at 720x480 or thereabouts. Videos are degraded and darker images appearing with horizontal lines around the outer edges?

    I’ve heard two scenarios, neither of which I don’t know how to make the changes.
    1. My second hard drive should be connected to a Promise ATI 133 card or to RAID controller on my motherboard to keep up with the speed.
    2. Interlacing problem but I have not found settings in Studio 8, VirtualDub, TMPgDVD, VirtualVCR, etc., that seem to have an affect (can’t find the interlace settings anyway).

    Is it possible the ATI All In Wonder video card is at fault in any way? Thank you.

    I’m using an ATI AIW 9700 card and huffyuv codec running on a P4, 2.8 ghz, with 1 gb ram and Win XP.
     
  2. MauriceB

    MauriceB Member

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    Here is an update on my original post. I friend gave me an external capture device using a firewire connection, which completely bypasses my ATI AIW card. I used a different set of rca cables too. The results were the same, a bit of ghosting and horizontal lines around darker images. No dropped frames, just crummy video.

    The only thing left that I can think of is something to do with the motherboard, hard drives (both produce same results), or possibly the camcorder output. My friend captured this same video on his computer, using this same external device, but used his camcorder, and it came out fine.
     
  3. MauriceB

    MauriceB Member

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    Third Update: I used another older camcorder as the source but still have the same poor AVI capture results. Having eliminated everything but my motherboard and hard drives...any suggestions?
     
  4. Minion

    Minion Senior member

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    Well the Larger the Resolution the Higher the Quality should Be... Those Horizontal Lines you are Seeing are actually Part of the Video and without them there would not be a Picture..These Lines are caused From Interlaceing and any vertical Resolution Higher than 240 will be captured as Interlaced Video...There are Deinterlace Filters that will either throw away one of the Fields which gets rid of the Interlaceing but also throws away Half of the Video information, and some Deinterlace Filters will Blend the Fields together and get rid of the Interlaceing artifacts...Both Virtual-Dub and Tmpgenc have deinterlace filters...You also have to realize the 8MM Tape and VHS tape use extremely Low Resolution, about the Resolution of VCD and when this resolution is resized to 720+480 you will loose a Lot of the Video Definition and Clarity, so if you keep it at low resolution you will capture crap and if you resize the resolution to 720+480 you will capture Crap...But these are things you generally have to accept when captureing from VHS or 8mm useing an All In Wonder Card...Have you tried useing the ATI MMC software to capture directly to Mpeg2 useing a High Bitrate and enableing the Deinterlace Filter in the settings??? You might like the Quality better than captureing to AVI....well good Luck
     
  5. MauriceB

    MauriceB Member

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    Minion, thank you very much for your comments. This helps me understand it a bit better, especially the fact that I won't be able to get decent capture quality. I understand a little about interlace but was never able to determine where in either of those programs I change the settings.

    I have not tried to capture with the ATI MMC because for some reason, the capture button is grayed out and won’t work. The thing that puzzles me is this same video captures on other computers with no horizontal lines and no filters used. What I also don’t know is if the ATI AIW 9700 is considered a decent card for capture or if other external cards (Canopus) are much better. The one external I tried would only display in Studio 8, not TMPgnc or Virtual VCR but produced the same results.
     
  6. Minion

    Minion Senior member

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    Well The Mpeg capture Program I usually used with My All In Wonder Radeon 8500DV Card was Intervideo WinDVR 3.0 and it has a Built in De-interlace Filter and a Noise Filter which helps clean up a Lot of the Noise and gets rid of the Interlace artifacts...
    Generally speaking you will not see the Interlace artifacts when watching these Files on your TV set because TV sets are made to display Interlaced Material were PC Monitors Display Video in Progressive Format so you will see the Interlaceing a Lot more on a Monitor than a TV Set...
    well good Luck....
     
  7. MauriceB

    MauriceB Member

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    Minion, Someone told me about a little button on MMC. After clicking on it, I can now record and using MMC.

    Now this leads me to another issue. I want to capture the best quality AVI. In the map presets there are a number of choices. If I use the default of “good” or “longer” ATI VCR I get decent capture, better than I ever had with any other capture software. Problem is I don’t know what the .vcr file extension is. I have tried a few others but with worse results. I used a custom setting with HUFFYUV that I read about but this captures in poor quality with the same old horizontal video lines around darker images. I don’t know what I’m supposed to set the HUFFYUV settings to. There is one that is titled AVI Recording but this comes out horribly blurred. Could use a recommendation on a setting to use. Is there an interlace setting in MMC? Thanks again.
     
  8. Minion

    Minion Senior member

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    OK...The ATI VCR Format is Just a Modified Version of Mpeg2 and is Not really an AVI file..The MMC software has a Little Utitlity that will Convert the VCR Files to real Mpeg2 files in Just a few Minutes with about the same Quality..You Can not use the VCR files in any program accept the ATI Software because it is a Proprietary Format meaning it is a Format Created By ATI to be used with there software and only there Capture Cards so In reality the VCR Format is Basicly Useless as a VCR File if your Goal is to create a DVD or SVCD...Try Captureing useing the Mpeg2 settings and use the Deinterlace Filter and use it"s Noise filter which will Filter out some of the Backround Noise in the Picture and you will get the same quality or better Quality as the VCR format Files...The ATI Software does not have a Deinterlace Filter that you can use when captureing to AVI format useing HuffUV or any other Regular AVI format so if you were to use an AVI codec Like HuffYUV you would Have to Render the File again useing a Deinterlace Filter to get rid of the Interlace Lines which can take up to a Few Hours for a whole movie or if your Target Format is to Make a Mpeg2 file for SVCD or DVD you can use one of the 16 different Deinterlace Filters in Tmpgenc when encodeing to Mpeg2 for SVCD or DVD......

    PS:predict Median and Predict Gragient are the Best Quality settings in the HuffYUV Codec, But I actually got better Quality when useing the ATI YV12 or YUY2 Codec when Captureing to AVI than Useing HuffYUV...
     
  9. MauriceB

    MauriceB Member

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    Minion, Thanks again for the wealth of knowledge. I thought the .vcr file might be something useless like you mentioned.

    I tried again using the DVD High mpeg-2 setting with light soap (don’t know what this is). Could not find a noise filter but did select the de-interlace. I left the remainder options as default. The results seemed to get rid of most or all of the horizontal lines but the picture is degraded more than I would like and worse than the .vcr file.

    I need to capture in AVI (so I’m told) so I can cut video, add transitions, etc., without degrading the video, then add chapters and burn to DVD. Are you saying there is not an AVI capture program that will allow me to use the de-interlace filter? I don’t care about what codec I use, I just want to be able to capture. Thank you.
     
  10. Minion

    Minion Senior member

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    Hi ,Yes the "Soap" setting is the Noise Filter...If your Plan is to use these Files to create a DVD then you can use the De-interlace Filter in the Encoder to Get rid of the Lines, Tmpgenc Has the Choice of 16 different De-interlace Filters in the Advanced settings...The Only way to edit AVI files and Not Loose Quality is to use a Lossless Codec Like HuffYUV or no Codec and capture to uncompressed AVI but you Will Loose some Quality when you encode the AVI to Mpeg2 for DVD but that is Unavoidable...The ATI MMC Software for your ATI card Has settings for Captureing to AVI useing any Codec you have installed, There are actually a couple Good Lossless Codecs that the ATI Software installs on your System, they are called something like "ATI YUV12" and "ATI YUY2" and I had rather good results useing these Codecs...So since there is not Program that I know of that will allow you to Capture to AVI while de-interlaceing You should De-Interlace while encodeing with Tmpgenc or you can try de-interlaceing when you are editing and adding Transitions as Most good Editors should have this Option....
    You also still Can capture useing the VCR format if you Liked the quality and then use the Utility in the ATI Software to convert the files to Mpeg2 and there are a Couple Mpeg editors that will alow you to edit the Mpeg2 files and add simple Transitions without any Quality Loss, These editors are especially made for Mpeg editing without Quality Loss and the editing is extremely fast because there is no re-encodeing Like most other editors do...The 2 Mpeg editors like this I know of are "Mpeg2VCR" and "Mpeg Video Wizard 2003" both are easy to use and have Transitions and some effects...
    I guess you are just going to have to experiment with a few capture programs and Codecs and Format till you get the Quality you want But I still think that you aren"t going to get Very Good Quality comeing from a Hi8 source...well good luck
     
  11. MauriceB

    MauriceB Member

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    Minion, thanks again. I doubt I will have time to do much for several weeks but will give it all a try. I appreciate your comments.
     

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