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How long does the data last on a DVD?

Discussion in 'DVD±R media' started by Freddy_C, Sep 16, 2004.

  1. Freddy_C

    Freddy_C Member

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    I was recently by the fact that a poster said that some DVD data doesn't last for even 2 years.

    then i read an article saying they can last for quite a long time if you take good care of them.

    well i buy cheap DVD-Rs, they are fine, but i was wondering if the quality of the dye has a drastic effect on the length that data on the media stays readable.

    i don't use the DVD-Rs i burnt a lot, only once in a few months if that.

    so doesn anyone know how long a cheap DVD-R disc's data lasts and how long a more expansive one last or isn't there a noticable difference?

    thanks
     
  2. Jeanc1

    Jeanc1 Guest

  3. Nephilim

    Nephilim Moderator Staff Member

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    Absolutely.


    It's hard to predict how long low quality media will retain data since they can be very inconsistent from lot to lot. The dyes and quality control aren't held to the standards of consistency like the quality manufacturers.

    Think of it this way, the basic polycarbonate base for media is the same and costs the same. You pay more for quality dye that is consistent and will last.

    There are no free lunches when it comes to media quality :)
     
  4. Nephilim

    Nephilim Moderator Staff Member

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    Very nice links Jeanc1 :)
     
  5. Freddy_C

    Freddy_C Member

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    thanks for that. so any of you out there that buys cheap DVD-Rs? if so, do you back up the discs after a few years if you want to keep it active?
     
  6. toyfigure

    toyfigure Guest

    I buy the cheap ones for around $45.00/100 piece.

    But for really good movies that I plan to keep I'll use quality media.
     
  7. Freddy_C

    Freddy_C Member

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    i see, so has anyone here actually suffered from data loss due to the disc being too old (NOY from straches etc)?
     
  8. Nephilim

    Nephilim Moderator Staff Member

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    If you run a forum search for Memorex you're sure to turn up a thread or two where folks had the CMC Memorex they'd been using go bad.
     
  9. jay33

    jay33 Regular member

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    The main problem with cheaper media is running into burn errors. Some cheaper media has uneven dye spreading over the disc, which can result in inconsistant burning mainly around the outer edge.

    As for cheap media deteriorating over time quicker than more expensive media.....I don't buy it. The dye is sealed the same way for all media, so as long as you take care of the disc and don't break the seal you should be fine for many, many years.
     
  10. Nephilim

    Nephilim Moderator Staff Member

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    The seal isn't the problem. It's the stability of the dye that counts :)
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    Last edited: Sep 16, 2004
  11. jay33

    jay33 Regular member

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    So what makes dye unstable say in 2 years?
     
  12. Nephilim

    Nephilim Moderator Staff Member

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    I can't honestly tell you in technical terms but I know it happens. As I said before there have been several folks chime in on various threads confirming that it's happened to them with CMC media but in all my time here I've never seen a single user report similar problems with Ritek, Verbatim Metal AZO or Taiyo Yuden.

     
  13. Higgsbsun

    Higgsbsun Regular member

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    It's probably the same problems faced by CD-R media. When I looked into archival image storage ANY dye based system was seen as suspect. If I remember, the main factor was light exposure (especially UV), causing bleaching of the dye, followed by temperature and humidity. Of course, no-one would leave media out in direct sunlight, but even low levels have a cumulative effect. This is well demonstrated by the longevity of CD-R dyes which have been extensively tested, cyanine is the most labile, then blue azo, and pthalocyanine is the most persistent. Mitsui make a pthalocyanine CD-R that will withstand 200 hours direct sunlight exposure.

    I have never seen a comparable examination of the dyes used in DVD manufacture.

    With dodgy media, the burn quality will be poor and it will not take much degradation to push it into the unreadable zone. Well burned, quality media will have a much higher "signal to noise" profile and will take much more damage before it reaches the marginal zone.

    It seems the media of choice for long term storage is phase-change, DVD-RAM uses this method and the latest blurb reckons 40 years minimum for those disks. If I remember correctly, DVD-RW uses phase-change of a sort, but I have never seen any durability figures for that particular media.

    One area I've never seen examined is the effect of the reading laser. With dark-stored media this will be the most intense light the dye will ever see, there will be no UV of course, but I've always wondered if the dye is bleached slightly on every read?




     
  14. Freddy_C

    Freddy_C Member

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    thing is, wiht my old CD-Rs which are thoe very cheap one (ones with shiny plain top and that's it, those you get in 100cd bundles) they still work after what is now 5 years, and i have really mistreated those in the meantime.

    i know CD-RS may be different to DVD-Rs, but are they so on the subject of longevity?

    i don't mistreat my DVDs at all, i keep them in the Case Logic 204 disc bag and only bring them out to watch if ever. also im in the UK so things don't get too hot or cold or humid.
     
  15. Higgsbsun

    Higgsbsun Regular member

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    Well, for a start, DVD-Rs have over 7 times the data density of CD-Rs, plus the tech is relatively new (eg dual layer Rs - out just a few months now). CD-R on the other hand is a mature technology now, you can buy just about any old crap and get a result that is readable (at least in the short term). Compare this to DVD-R where some people are taking great pains to buy what they think is high quality (usually expensive), media and drives and then experiencing unacceptably high coaster rates.

    As usual, we are paying for the privilege of being beta testers.
     
  16. jay33

    jay33 Regular member

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    Ya, I started burning cdr's back in 1998 and those that I burned back then still work fine. In 1999 I went nuts and burned off about 200 cdr's, most on cheap-o media like AT&T....those all still work like I made them yesterday.
     
  17. BlueLaser

    BlueLaser Member

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    Jay33 said just what I was about to say. I mostly started burning between 1996 and 1998.. I'm not sure exactly where (I can check my CDR's in my case because some have dates). I was just looking at some old programs from 1997 3 days ago and it CDR read just fine. One was a Verbatim and the other a no-name (No label so I don't know the name). All of them read perfectly. I wonder what would happen if I purposely burned a CDR and put it outside in the sun for a week. Maybe I will, LOL. If I do, I will post it.
     
  18. Coba

    Coba Member

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    I had about 5 Mitsubishi DVD-R discs which did not even last 3month after burning. They where Made by Mitsubishi in Singapore. The problem was that the bonding of the 2 layers(protective layer and recordable layer)was not good and the disc fell apart in to 2 discs...
    UV and light from NEON TUBES can destroy your disc rather fast.
    Another thing is that some realy cheap standalone players from China use lasers which are too strong. A friend of mine had such a player and every TY(!!) disc was not readable after he saw the movie twice.
    Other things i have experienced are really CHEAP discs which were not readable after 2 month storage in a dark place in the original juwelcase in an airconditioned room.
     
  19. Higgsbsun

    Higgsbsun Regular member

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    I've even seen pics of DVD-R and CD-R media where the dye layer has been attacked by fungus! The fungal patterns look quite attractive, a bit like modern art, but of course they don't exactly enhance playback quality.
     
  20. pieman

    pieman Regular member

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    I have two bought cds that have fungal rot/rust.Its like a bloody moth has got to the dye in between the plastic.Luckily they still played so i could back them up.Shame cos they are rare cd singles.I understand that they rotted cos the plastic seperated letting oxygen get to the dye and oxidize the metal in the dye.I notice on some DVD blanks that i have bought suffer from some seperation around the spindle which i think means they aint sealed properly.Ridisc are a bugger for this or at least the batch ive had.I store my discs in the dj cases with dessicant out of the sunlight, and scrupulously clean.Whether this helps only time will tell
    _X_X_X_X_X_[small][​IMG][/small]
     
    Last edited: Sep 18, 2004

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