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How to author VCDs from AVIs rendered from 3D Studio Max?

Discussion in 'MPEG-1 and MPEG-2 encoding (AVI to DVD)' started by 2Shy, Apr 3, 2002.

  1. 2Shy

    2Shy Guest

    I'm using TMPEGnc to convert my 800 X 600 AVI movie into a 352 X 288 25 fps Mpeg movie. When i playback, it looks fine in the small window, but when i view full screen, it gets totally distorted. When i burn it to VCD using Easy CD Creator or ULead Movie Factory, it shows the distortion there too.

    Basically i render and create AVIs from 3D Studio Max. Can someone tell me what Codec, Size & Frame Rate should i use to render animations from 3D Studio Max, so that i can later convert them into mpeg and then burn them to VCDs for broadcast quality??
     
  2. Ketola

    Ketola Fighting ninjas Staff Member

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    You can use the pre-defined NTSC and PAL resolutions in 3DSMax. Use a 24fps framerate for NTSC and use the NTSCFilm -template in TMPGEnc. For PAL, use 25fps and the PAL template.
    The resolution should be 704x480 for NTSC and 704x576 for PAL. Morgan MJPEG codec is pretty good for high resolution, high quality rendering.
    http://www.morgan-multimedia.com/v3.htm
    Of course, if you have the space, you can also use uncompressed AVI.
     
  3. 2Shy

    2Shy Guest

    Thanks a lot! But tell me something, once i get this 704 X 576 AVI movie, how do i convert this one into the desired MPEG format for the VCD? Do i use TMPEGnc and it's Pal Format (352 X 288) to convert this AVI into MPEG and then record on VCD? But then when i get this MPEG, it will be 352 X 288, now when i view it full screen, or on TV with big screen then computer, won't it get distorted?

    Thanks...
    2Shy
     
  4. Ketola

    Ketola Fighting ninjas Staff Member

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    Yup, that's how'd you'd do it. If your player supports SVCD, you should definitely go with that (480x576 resolution with a maximum bitrate of about 2.5Mbps).

    How do you mean distorted? If you mean the aspect ratio, then no. 352x288 is exactly 1/4 of 704x576 (704/2 and 576/2). If you mean the loss of resolution, then yes.. Especially high-detail/fast-motion clips will be rather blocky, since the 1150kbps bitrate isn't quite enough even for such a low resolution.
     
  5. 2Shy

    2Shy Guest

    Thanks. But i think there's some more things now. Firstly, how can i affect the Bit Rate? In 3D Max or in TMPEGnc?

    you say
    >>"with a maximum bitrate of about 2.5Mbps"
    Where and how do i set the bitrate?

    Basically i'm using a PAL system. In Max actually it gave 768 X 576 with Pal Video instead of 704 X 576. But i corrected that.
    I know 704 X 576 is 1/4 of 352 X 288 which is provided by TMPEGnc.

    I AM using High-Detail/fast-motion clips. Partly prepared in Bryce 5 & partly in Max. And i need to prepare VCD of the animation clips to be viewed in TV. I do know now that wether Bryce or Max, i have to use 25 fps & 704 X 576.
    But this bitrate issue is rather new now.

    Also, i have been using Intel Video 5.04 Codec. The one you recommended could not be downloaded. And it's not free either. Do you know some other Codecs i can use?

    >"How do you mean distorted?"
    Well it gets hazy, unclear, distortion in texture when i view in full screen on computer. I suppose that is what will happen to it when i make a VCD out of it. That's why i need to make it compatible with any resolution or at least TV before i make a VCD.

    I had some video clips, mpg clips, of actual movies (not digital animations). When i made VCD out of them, just by converting them into the 352 X 288 thru TMPEGnc, they work absolutely fine in my TV also. NO distortion, any size! That is what i'm looking out for my Digital Animations too.

    >"be rather blocky, since the 1150kbps bitrate isn't quite enough even for such a low"

    So what is the solution to the Bitrate problem?
    And i don't think SVCD is supported. Not on all systems that may be used for playback of the films.

    Thanks Again,
    2Shy


     
  6. Ketola

    Ketola Fighting ninjas Staff Member

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    Hi,

    You set the bitrate in TMPGEnc. Load the profile (SuperVideoCD (PAL)), Click Setting, Choose 2-pass VBR (best quality), Click Setting, Set average bitrate to 2200, max 2520, min 2000.. Of course you can create a 2520kbps CBR video as well, if space is of no concern. Also set the Motion search precision to Highest quality to obtain best results.

    The Intel codec should provide adequate results. The Morgan MJPEG codec is available as a 60 day trial, but I suppose the Intel Video codec will do as well. Of course you can still go with RAW frames or even DivX 5 with high bitrate.

    Rendering at PAL resolution should take care of the scaling problems (ie. fuzziness etc.). When encoding to VCD with TMPGEnc, set the Motion search precision to Highest quality, and make sure the Source aspect ratio is 1:1.

    Hope that helps!

     
  7. 2Shy

    2Shy Guest

    Hi,
    Umm.. i think i do get this. Actually i was speaking with someone right now and he told me that i can render the AVI, from Max or Bryce, even in 352 X 288 directly.. and not necassarily in 704 X 576. Is that true? Or do i have to render in 704 X 576??

    I do have the DivX codec. Which one should i use, DivX or Intel Video 5.04?

    Thanks again,
    2Shy
     
  8. Ketola

    Ketola Fighting ninjas Staff Member

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    True, but oversampling is always an advantage when encoding to a low resolution with low bitrate. Then the source resolution is higher than the target, the encoder has more options to choose from. This is usually highly advisable when there's alot of detail in the video.

    You might want to do some test runs to see if the advantage is noticeable, since rendering in quadruple resolution takes quite a bit longer.. It might not be worthwhile afterall.

    Stick with Intel Indeo codec. Just keep the quality setting at maximum to avoid unnecessary loss of detail.
     
  9. 2Shy

    2Shy Guest

    >"You might want to do some test runs to see"

    Well that's one area that's haunting. 704 X 576 will take whole night. 352 X 288 will take a few hours. I will definately try the methodologies you have explained.
    Tell me something, i have been talking to the guys at a 3D Max list, one of them is strongly of the opinion that a high-detail animation (like mine), will never be clear or as well as i want it to be, no matter what i try or do.
    I kind of not want to agree with that. And with all that we have been discussing, it's hard for me to believe that. What is your opinion? Is it possible?

    well thanks for your help...
    2Shy


     
  10. Ketola

    Ketola Fighting ninjas Staff Member

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    With VideoCD you're bound to lose either detail or image clarity. High quality MPEG encoders _may_ provide good, or atleast fair results, but they are often rather expensive. For example the Panasonic MPEG encoder
    http://www.networkserve.co.jp/mpeg/index_e.html
    ,as far as I can remember, has a separate profile for computer generated video.

    Instead of rendering complete scenes, I'd suggest doing more simple scenes with vivid, complex textures on a few objects, and with a background with some detail.
     

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