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Is this legal...

Discussion in 'DVD±R for advanced users' started by tater9104, Jan 13, 2005.

  1. tater9104

    tater9104 Guest

    I was considering offering my services to people who would want to make archival backup copies of preowned dvds and to also convert VHS to Dvd if a person wants me to. Does this violate any copyright laws or anything else, so long as I make sure that we have a signed agreement with each other that the person does own the DVD, agrees to destroy the copy if the original is ever lost, and that they agree not to give the DVD to another. Can I do this for people and make money? I am not selling ripped DVD's, but simply offering a service to backup what is aready bought. What do you guys think?
     
  2. Jerry746

    Jerry746 Senior member

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    This is just my opinion so take it as that. You would be making money from doing the backups which I think the legal system would look on as piracy. I understand what you are saying and its all in how you look at it. Movie companies don't really want any backups made even if you own them. Thats why them encrypt them. So any income from such a service will be frowned upon by them and the legal system. Just my outlook on how they will view your business.

    Jerry
     
  3. elliott

    elliott Regular member

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    I concur piracy is looked upon exactly as that, making money.
     
  4. tater9104

    tater9104 Guest

    So, even though backing up DVD's are legal, my acting as a catalyst of such backing up would be considered illegal?
     
  5. Weirdo007

    Weirdo007 Regular member

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    My 2 cents.....

    I think that in order for it to not be looked upon as piracy or anything illegal, you couldn't make a profit off it. I think the only thing you could really charge for MAYBE is the cost of the blank disc.
     
  6. Auslander

    Auslander Senior member

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    D'oh [edited by herbsman]
     
    Last edited: Jan 16, 2005
  7. tater9104

    tater9104 Guest

    Does anyone really know the law? I mean piracy has a very different connotation than its denotation. I actually read the FBI waring for the first time in my life! I did not see anything that would make this seem illegal. The only problem is that i will have to advertise somewhat, so I really need to know the law. Does anyone know anywhere I could check if you do not know it for yourself?
     
  8. hijacker

    hijacker Guest

    I would think that you could myself.Your backing up an original.Not profiting from the movie just service itself.Hey if a company can edit movies for people making them "G" rated instead of "R" rated then you should be able to back-up someone's movie.You better get some fast as hell burners though or a few of them for fast service.We have plent of these "clean flick companys" where I am at.
     
  9. cmmnsense

    cmmnsense Guest

    If you have to ask, it probally is illlegal. Even if it isn't really wrong, the gov't will still burn you for it if your unlucky enough to get caught.
     
  10. Jerry746

    Jerry746 Senior member

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    Here is the link to THE LAW. 3rd or 4th paragraph states about services offered to circumvent copyright protection. From what I read you would be doing things against the law.
    http://www.copyright.gov/legislation/dmca.pdf

    Jerry
     
    Last edited: Jan 16, 2005
  11. bbmayo

    bbmayo Active member

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    Get a lawyer :)


    Hell if you read that link we are all breaking the Law LOL
     
    Last edited: Jan 13, 2005
  12. Jerry746

    Jerry746 Senior member

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    That is exactly right. However they don't have time to chase down all of us in our homes so they only go after the ones making multiple copies and making money off them. The courts already made it clear you can't sell decrypting software in the USA (example 321 studios). It is also unlawful to download said software (Shrink and Decrypter). So I agree with your statemant that most people are already breaking the law. Will they come after us? I doubt it--excessive time and cost--at least at this time.

    Jerry
     
  13. elliott

    elliott Regular member

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    Ok it seems there are alot of differing opinions but let me break it down to you 1) you have already raised a flag by asking if something is legal. 2) making any copy of copyrighted material is illegal except when it comes to the fair use act. 3) you have already stated yourself the illegal use of such copy/ripping software. 4) there is a very big difference in being busted for your own use and being busted making a profit. 5) it would be very time consuming and the wear and tear on your pc and its drives would be enormous. 6) you mentioned companies that make an (R) movie into a (PG) they have licsenced permission to do this in most cased if not they are breaking the law. Last thoughts yes we are all technically breaking the law however I would not have been ignorant enough to ask on a popular forum if it was legal I would have just done it between known accuintances and word of mouth. WEW !!!!
     
  14. brobear

    brobear Guest

    Jerry has it right, as things stand now, copying DVD movies is against the copyright act. The court battle isn't over; and we, along with many others, are claiming fair use rights. But until government and the courts start to agree with us, we are going against the wishes of the court and the movie industry.

    http://www.copyright.gov/fls/fl102.html
    http://www.copyright.gov/title17/92chap1.html#107

    If you believe fair use under the law gives you the right to record copyrighted material, you had best think again. The above links will take you to some interesting reading. The top is the shortest, so read it first. That will answer the question for anyone in doubt. And as they say, if you don't understand it, call a lawyer. These are the laws in the books from which the precedents were taken, before the new copyright laws came into effect, and the new laws are even more strict.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 16, 2005
  15. brobear

    brobear Guest

    Highlights of the Millenium Copyright Act.

    http://www.gseis.ucla.edu/iclp/dmca1.htm

    Now that you've seen the highlights of the act, you may get an idea of the leverage the movie and music industry have.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 16, 2005
  16. billwebso

    billwebso Guest

    Just offer to back-up home movies to DVD. There is a big enough market out there for you to make a little cash. I know I have a box of VHS home movies that I really don't like to take the time to back up. It's very time consuming. I would think there would be better money there anyway.
     
  17. Jerry746

    Jerry746 Senior member

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    We can debate this until doomsday. The fact is that if they wanted to really spend the time and money most of us would be paying fines or spending time in court(or jail). I at times bend a few rules, but only for myself and family. I never have, nor intend to try to profit from any knowledge or equipment I have for burning dvd backups. If everyone would keep that frame of mind we wouldn't hear as much from DMCA. But you have people with rooms full of burning equipment selling dvd movies for 1/2 or 1/4 the price of the original. If it was my business I would try to stop it too. Again just my opinion.

    Jerry
     
  18. Weirdo007

    Weirdo007 Regular member

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    I got thinking about this over the course of the day today, and I have thought a little differently from what I originally posted.

    Ok, (excluding the DMCA which IMO is just a corrupt tool of the MPAA...) we all know that under the Fair Rights Use clause of the Copyright act we are SUPPOSED to be able to make ONE backup copy of a movie that we OWN and have possession of, correct?

    Upon rereading the original post I got thinking. If he is making a backup of a disc owned by someone else, and then gives that person back BOTH the original AND the backup, while at the same time NOT keeping a copy of the ISO for himself, how can he be violating Fair Rights Use since he is only charging a person for the [bold]SERVICE[/bold] of backing up a dvd that the person owns, rather than selling a burnt copy of the original to someone else, which WOULD constitute piracy??? Based on that I can't see how he'd be violating Fair Rights Use. The person he is burning the disc for is simply exercising their right to Fair Rights Use, Tater is only providing the means to do it, and charging a fee to do it for them.

    Now throw in DMCA and that's a whole different can of worms....

    I find Mr. Valenti's (MPAA) analogy that "giving someone a decryption program is like giving them the keys to your house."

    I find his argument flawed in this sense: Do not most people make a duplicate key of their house so in case anything ever happens to the original key you can still get in??? I personally have several dup keys of my house key for this very reason, and I think that the exact same thinking applies to archival backups of DVD. A DVD is a kind of key. It opens the movie. Same way your house key opens your house. Is it not then prudent to have a [bold]SPARE KEY[/bold]??? Last time I checked the keymaker at my local hardware store charges you to make a dup but he's not breaking any laws.... hmmm...

    Mr Valenti would, if he could, ban all copying, backup or otherwise. He would rather you buy a brand new copy of it. (money hungry bastards...)

    Using his own "house key" analogy, if the disc is the key, and the movie is the house, if I can't make a backup of the key, and my key gets broken lost or damaged, [bold]SHOULD I HAVE TO BUY A NEW HOUSE??!!![/bold] What an insulting and arrogant prick Mr Valenti is. Sorry it ticks me off.
     
    Last edited: Jan 14, 2005
  19. Jerry746

    Jerry746 Senior member

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    Here is another way to look at the same thing. I give someone the original of a dvd to copy for me. He makes 11 copies, gives me back the original and 1 copy and sells 10. If anyone advertises that type of service they will be asking for trouble. Tater9104 may be honest enough to make just 1 copy but there are others that will cause all the problems.

    Jerry
     
    Last edited: Jan 14, 2005
  20. Weirdo007

    Weirdo007 Regular member

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    I whole heartedly agree. And it is THOSE people who cause the problems, not the people such as Tater. Only problem is the MPAA doesn't distinguish between the two.
     
    Last edited: Jan 14, 2005

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