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LIP SYNC PROB'S WITH PLASMA ???

Discussion in 'Televisions' started by scots7777, Jan 24, 2005.

  1. scots7777

    scots7777 Member

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    Ive just bought two new plasma's (philips 42PF9946/12 ) with matching philips dvd recorder (dvdr610).

    What ive noticed with both tv's is that they have a sound lip sync problem, I.E- when watching pictures the voice's dont match with the mouth movments.

    It happens on everything, when watching tv via my analog terestrial roof aerial, through my digital cable tv box and also when watching dvd's.

    Does anyone have any idea whats up and if there is a fix, it gets really bad sometimes, its doing my head in ????

    Please help.
     
  2. scots7777

    scots7777 Member

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    Anyone ???????
     
  3. Pop_Smith

    Pop_Smith Regular member

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    have you tried another DVD in the DVD Recorder? Have you tried your DVD in a PC? I don't have a Plasma TV so, I can't say if its the TV, although you say it happens with other sources as well, this could indicate a problem with your TV. If I come across anything i'll let you know.
     
  4. mikey-b

    mikey-b Member

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    i purchased a sony 42" plasma tv a couple of months ago. nothing is in sync, DVD, cable box, etc. Sony first had a tech come out and they said they would take the TV in for repair, i said no and had hhgregg come out and look at it - they concurred that it was awfull. hhgregg replace the tv but the new one has the exact problem. I've moved the inputs to another tv and everything is perfectly in sync. the common problem is the plasma tv. for some reason the tv is delaying both audio and video. when you use the home theater system, it is totally unacceptable. i'm gonna try to just return it to hhgregg and give up...
     
  5. scots7777

    scots7777 Member

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    we cant all be getting conned here, can we ???
     
  6. OneTree

    OneTree Member

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    The problem with lip sync on plasmas I've found varies from make to make. Plasmas were originally designed as vga displays then used as a replacement for the basic CRT (normal telly). Plasmas cannot handle interlace like CRTs they are progressive scan devices. If you plug any video into your plasma that has an interlace component then the plasma digitally converts it to progressive scan. This takes time approx 60-100mS for plasmas and 20-40mS for LCDs. Unfortunately most manufacturers ignore this video delay and hope the consumer can't see it and don't bother internally delaying the audio to match. An easy experiment is to place a normal CRT next to your plasma or LCD feed them the same source and observe when picture cuts occur. A cut on a CRT occurs first ergo lip sync error on your plasma. Best thing to do is connect RGB or YUV from the Set top box or DVD to your plasma. Ive found the delay is less connecting this way than using the plasma's composite input. see great article on www.feslton.com
     
    Last edited: Feb 1, 2005
  7. mikey-b

    mikey-b Member

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    it appears that sony has indeed delayed or attempted to anyway the audio to match the video. you can still detect a small delay when using the plasma speakers (tv providing both audio and video). I hooked up a sony handy cam and played a tape back through the audio and vidoe connection on the side of the plasma - video 2 - and listened to the audio from the handy cam and the tv at the same time. i refer to the handy cam as "real time" and both audio and video come well before the plasma tv - an "echo" effect occurs when both volumes are up. the real problem then becomes using anything but the plasma tv for audio - e.g. home theater. my sony home theater system plays the audio "real time" which is way before the plasma tv presents the video. when i connect the handy cam to the old tv, everything is exactly in sync. this is the 2nd sony plasma with the exact problem - sounds like engineering problem to me...
     
  8. OneTree

    OneTree Member

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    Yes a good experiment and you're lucky you have a plasma whose manufacturer bothers with delaying the audio - most don't e.g. Fujitsu.
    Audio sync is an increasing problem with more use of digital processing especially in broadcasting. Audio delay can occur at many stages. Broadcast specs stipulate no more than +/- 1 field lip-sybc error. However sometimes satellite STB can generate out of sync audio (1-2 fields - 1 field=1/50"). Channel up/down may relock vid/aud sync. This problem is related to manufacturer, software release. So this coupled with progressive scan conversion coupled with fancy 100Hz, image sharpening (more digital processing) slowly adds up to lips sync error if audio is not automatically delayed with each process. It is intersting to note that humans will notice audio before video more than the other way round as this does not occur in nature!!
     
  9. allansolo

    allansolo Member

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    Thanks for the comments--very helpful! I had bought LG's upconverting DVD player and had terrible audio sync problem with my Pioneer Elite1110 HD. I have exchanged for a Denon 755s and problem is much improved. At BestBuy salesman claimed the problem had been addressed in the Pioneer Elite 1120 HD with 3:2 pulldown--I thought I had that on my set and does this make sense in any case?
     
  10. scots7777

    scots7777 Member

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    Why does the lip sync problem seem to come and go on my tv, one day it looks spot on and the next it is fecked !!! :( It happens on all broadcasts, analog, cable digital and dvd's ???
     
  11. OneTree

    OneTree Member

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    What inputs from your DVD, TV tuner etc. to your plasma are you using? (Video I/P, YUV, RGB, YPrPb...)
     
  12. scots7777

    scots7777 Member

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    I have Cable digital set top box connected via the the dvd recorder then onto the tv with scarts, I have rgb selected on the settings for the digy box and rgb set for the dvd, they are plugged into the scart on the tv that can accept an rgb signal (scart 1).
    I also have an analog terestrial tv roof aerial that is connected obviously to the dvd recorder too so that I can record from the aerial reception if I want to, its conected to the dvd recorder by regular tv aerial coax.

    As I said before, I get the lipsync problem when viewing all signals, analog,digital and dvd, if I plug my old crt tv in it is fine so its defo the tv.
     
  13. OneTree

    OneTree Member

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    So if I read you correctly everything is going via your DVD. Don't forget this is also a digital device converting and compressing analog to digital. What happens if you watch terrestrial TV using the in built r.f. tuner on the Philip plasma tv? Is lip sync still out, better/worse?
     
    Last edited: Feb 1, 2005
  14. scots7777

    scots7777 Member

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    One tree, i appreciate your trying to help me but I dont see the point in connecting my analog aerial directly to my tv to test what your suggesting because everything has to go through the dvd recorder in order for it to record, know what I mean mate ??

    Iam not going to try that as I bought the tv & dvd recorder as a package, so I should be able to plug them in and it should work, I shouldnt have to plug cables in here and there to test things, it should work as soon as I plug it in, dont you agree ??

    I know where your coming from mate and I really do appreciate your help but this feckin thing is brand new and should work from first switching it on.
     
  15. OneTree

    OneTree Member

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    Well it seems this site is providing more suggestions than Philips, at least - tell them your problems and let us know what they come up with
     
  16. scots7777

    scots7777 Member

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    i did and they say they'v never heard of it !!!! feckin liars, lol
     
  17. scots7777

    scots7777 Member

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    onetree, i tried connecting the analog aerial straight into the tv and likewise my cable digital box straight in without going through the dvd and it still has lipsync problem :(

    The shop I bought it from insist that they havent heard of this problem (i think they are liers) and have said they will send out new tv's (remember it 2 tv's not just the one) and I asked them what if the new ones have the same problem, they said we just have to wait and see...:( BUT I know they will just be the same as ive seen other people in forums with the same make and model of tv as mines and thiers has the same lipsync problem too.

     
  18. OneTree

    OneTree Member

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    If all is what you say you should flick both back. I dare say consumers guarrentee act (if there is one in UK) should protect you i.e. it aint doing what they advertise. Buy an LG
     
  19. OneTree

    OneTree Member

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    Or a LCD mon. I haven't met a manufacturer who would 'fess up to a problem. Standard operational procedure to deny, deny, deny. I was speeking to someone the other day who even saw it in a manufacturers written procedure as a response to customers.
     
  20. scots7777

    scots7777 Member

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    I know what you mean mate.

    Iam now going through the procedure of getting another tv delivered, same make/model, the manager of the store seems to think we have just been unlucky and got 2 bad ones (i dont think so)....He also added that if these new ones that are getting sent out are also having lipsync problems then the store "currys" (the biggest electrical retailers in uk) will have to look at this issue seriously as they will NOT be selling goods that are known to be faulty.

    I'll have to just wait and see what happens when the new tv's come, I cant do anything until then...

    You mentioned about just picking another tv such as an LG etc but to be honest mate, for the amount of money I can afford I think I have the best looking tv in the shop, the rest including LG's at similar price just look crap, the styling of this philips model is very very nice, thats why I want to keep it, know what I mean ?

    anyway, I just gotta wait and see now.
     

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