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*LOOK* *READ* A WARNING FOR EVERYONE *READ* *LOOK*

Discussion in 'PS2' started by Oner, Apr 12, 2003.

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  1. loaded

    loaded Moderator Staff Member

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    OK OK OK hold your horses everybody....

    ...Take a deep breath......

    ....breath out......

    That's better. This is not a sadistic one man crusade out to spoil your fun. You are all part of a community (I should point out that it is free, helpful, insightful and Dextrs does not get paid for it) that is supposed to be there for mutual help.

    That is the backbone and I see no reason for unnecessary censorship, but it requires everyone to keep that spirit in mind in order for it to work. If all you do is flame on about things, then you are not helping others. I am a great believer in the old agage, if you don't have anything helpful to say, don't say anything at all.

    I also believe in the following :

    'Opinions are like arseholes, everyone has one'

    I also believe that people are prone to denigrate things they don't understand, so in my book, if you are derogatory about something, you most likely don't understand it.

    There is no need to attack Dextrs like this, even if you do disagree, as he works very hard to keep the PS2 forum (the most unruly of them all, I fear) clean and tidy. Just imagine what an incoherent mess it would be if we left it entirely to the users without any form of rules ;-)

    Paul.
     
  2. EviLAnGeL

    EviLAnGeL Guest

    Loaded you said... "I also believe that people are prone to denigrate things they don't understand, so in my book, if you are derogatory about something, you most likely don't understand it"

    Now this is going to get complicated. Firstly that is an opinion. Your opinion. It is not strictly true. You could argue that because someone understands something totally and utterly, inside out and back to front with complete clarity then they are more prone to understand the subjects weaknesses and be more capable of highlighting particular faults in the given subject/product etc. The whole crux of this matter is how those expressions are made. Can I pose the same question to you that I did to Dex. Why are we focusing on the negatives? Surely for instance someone saying something is bad for no other reason than because they don't own that particular product is exactly the same as saying that something is great just because they DO own that particular product. Why is that not being made clear here. Why is it all about if you say something is bad then that just isn't allowed. But I can post like crazy saying everything is great when quite clearly not everything is great. Dex seems to think that just because a product does what it was designed to do then it cannot be bad. That also is simply not true otherwise all cars would be great just because you can start them up and drive down the street. Or all perfumes are great just because they make you smell different. Obviously that cannot be right. Some people think a certain car is good for their own reasons and someone else may think it is bad for their own reasons. The point is each person is entitled to each opinion and is entitled to express it.

    The point is the opinion you expressed that I quoted at the start is entitled to be viewed and you are entitled to have it even if me or anyone else doesn't agree. Dex thinks otherwise. It seems he wants to decide what other peoples opinions should be.

    The greatest irony of this whole mess is that if we end up in a situation where every single individuals own personal opinions on any subject are deleted or changed by Dex then he will be guilty of doing the exact thing he is trying to stop which is expressing biased opinions. Namely every opinion is invalid if it doesn't fall in line with what he thinks is justified. Surely it doesn't take a genius to see that.
     
  3. darthnip

    darthnip Moderator Staff Member

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    man this is deep!! I personally have never seen dex do anything that didn't need done. I do see the point in not wanting people to just say "that chip sucks" or whatever. i've seen where those words were passed around but then an explination followed. To me, thats fine (not that i matter). if I have a bad deal with a chip, to me it would suck. but for a n00b coming in here and asking a legit question then just getting "that chip sucks" as an answer, it's not really fair to the n00b because being a n00b, i'm sure the first question would be ok, why does it suck? to him it might be just what he wants. take the fliptop for example, i've seen people say they suck, i personally love it because it serves my purpose, no solder, no hassle. if i came in asking about a fliptop and just got a "flip tops suck" answer, that might sway me away from buying something i really want, just based on someone's opinion. I really do agree with you guys that you should be able to express opions here, but think of the person reading your reply, and try to cover any questions that may come from it, at least do it for the n00bs sake, we were all there at one time or another.
     
  4. Oner

    Oner Moderator Staff Member

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    Darthnip, if only ^others^ could understand things the way you do, because that is exactly my sentiments except for the last bit where you say

    That is where the misunderstanding is, I never meant or implied you can't have an opinion. **This is important** Just not a BIASED-OPINION in a reply that is not informative nor helps the situation.

    But some people like to twist my words around to fit their agenda and swear they "psychologically outwit me" (to quote someone) and believe they are special and do not neeed to conform to rules, because they where wrong and go about having a tantrum, stomping their feet, crying and believing they are "owed" an appology when they are wrong.

    It is a fine line, but that is why it is there for...TO TRY TO AVOID PROBLEMS LIKE THESE!! Which just proves why the implementation of this thread...so no matter who says what, I am correct. Because the moment insults where flung, it poves my point. This is why I ask to refrain from such comments like "That chip sucks, because it costs 3 dollars more" to paraphrase a comment by someone (especially after the fact they try to backpeddle to try and make what they stated substantiated).
     
  5. darthnip

    darthnip Moderator Staff Member

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    oh i know we can express opinions here, i do it all the time, but with reasons behind my opinion. it's usually one of those "which is best" or "what should i do" threads, where you can tell the guy needs feedback from people on different things, so hell yeah i give my opinion. like, "maybe you should try this becuase it worked for me' or yeah those seem to be good because i've had good luck with them" and so on. I've been here for a while now and most of the time i'm one of the top 3 posters on the list dRD puts out and I have never once felt like my opinion wasn't welcomed, or that i pissed someone off, but then again, i give my opinions without slamming other stuff that i have no experience with. Even if i have had experience with something i didn't like (like no-solder chips) i tell whoever is asking that they smoked 2 of my PS2's and why it happened. from that a person gathers info on the no-solder chip possibly blowing fuses on the PS2 and can make their own decision from there. but I have never once just said that no-solder chips suck. I know lots of people here that love them, and thats great for them, i'm glad they haven't had any trouble. I know this thread isn't about a no-solder chip, but my point is personally i think they suck, but i can still provide info in a way that gives a person another view of something instead of just hearing someone condem it. I'm behind you on this 100% Dex, and 99% of the other Ad'ers are too.
     
  6. EviLAnGeL

    EviLAnGeL Guest

    To quote Dex.... "so no matter who says what, I am correct".

    It baffles me how you can even say that and then go on about biased opinions. It's just unbelievably contradictory and I've seen you do this several times already. It's there in black and white and needs no further elaboration or clarification. I rest my case. I expect you will alter your post to say something different as you have done before or alter mine. Because you seem to put your foot in your mouth and then you are the one that needs to backpeddle like you did when you altered your other post to include points taken from mine and then you deleted mine. I've seen you do this several times already and obviously you are incapable of debate or flexibility.

    Also why can you not answer a simple question I have put to you several times already. Surely saying "Get a Magic mod they are great" is just as bad as saying "Don't get a Magic mod they suck" when reasons are not provided. Why is this all about saying something negative about something. Surely if someone tells somebody to get something because it is great is just as bad as telling them not to get something because it sucks. So why is the forum littered with posts about how great certain things are with no reasons to back up why people say they are great?

    I tire rapidly of this whole situation. I only started coming here recently and I came simply because I thought it would be fun. Instead I find it about as much fun as crawling through broken glass and a simple debate over such a simple subject becomes like wading through treacle. Nothing done for fun is worth all this trouble. See you everybody. It WAS fun. Until I met Dex.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 3, 2003
  7. New2This

    New2This Guest

    Dex, seeing as you like to quote people - you said:

    --------------------------
    I really do agree with you guys that you should be able to express opions here

    That is where the misunderstanding is, I never meant or implied you can't have an opinion. **This is important** Just not a BIASED-OPINION in a reply that is not informative nor helps the situation.
    -----------------------------

    Do you actually know the meaning of the word opinion? An opinion is synopsis of a subject or matter based upon personal experiences and/or knowledge - THERE FOR IT IS A BIASED VIEW.

    Secondly, you want the reply to be informative and helps the situation.

    I'll give you a sample question: "What is the best modchip" - Most people will propably answer: (i)MAGIC 3 (2) Messiah (3) No Magic as Messiah sucks (4) Fliptop as all modchips suck.

    To me these are all imformative answers. If I had posted the question, my next question might be - what is a fliptop?

    Because someone replied that all modchips suck and get a fliptop - I have just learned about something I might have not already known. Especially as a fliptop has nothing to do with the original question posted!!!

    Now do you see?
     
  8. darthnip

    darthnip Moderator Staff Member

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    people, just put the dictionary down, and walk away. go play a game or something, this thread is getting to silly. we're here to have fun and help people, just please everyone cancel the pissing match!
     
  9. New2This

    New2This Guest

    darthnip, the age old say "he started it". Everything was fine until Dex tried to through his weight around.

    From Dex's silence to my responses I rest my case.

    They make take my life but not my FREEDOM!!!!!
     
  10. loaded

    loaded Moderator Staff Member

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    *CLOSED*

    *BORED*

    Paul.
     
  11. Oner

    Oner Moderator Staff Member

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    *Opened*


    Unbelievable, how childish. I started it... Yeah OKAY. This is something that was started by forum NEWBIES even before this situation. I went about handling it AFTERWARDS when respected members where getting flamed and insulted, which is part of being a moderator.

    As for my silence...You imply I have been proven wrong, when you are so far from the truth.



    What world are you living in? ALL you have done is argue about different topics to try and prove that what you did was right when you where not, can't you stay on topic, or did you bring other things up to cover your mistake that you cannot admit.

    Here is the proof that supports that you backpeddle and edit YOUR posts http://forums.afterdawn.com/thread_view.cfm/35949

    I will break it down in hopes you understand...lol


    EviLAnGeL

    You have the Neo chip and Neo's do not read DVDR's unless you use the double swap method with an original DVD with a TOC larger than the DVDR you are trying to boot. [bold]Neo 2.2's suck, just get a new chip like a Magic 3.1[/bold], but V4 PS2's aren't too great for reading backups with the Magic either (speaking from personal experience, some people say they work ok). Probably better to sell the PS2 with the chip and buy a new or newer version PS2 and get that modded or buy a premodded one.


    DextrsLab

    How could they, if I NEVER had a problem with mine for more than 2 years? If used correctly they work perfectly. So you have to double swap WOW an extra 30 seconds out of my life.

    Your comments are not substantiated, please refrain from such unproven replies.


    EviLAnGeL

    When Neo 2.2's were first released they were (as most new technology is) excellent, and a godsend for most people. As time moves on so does technology and what can now be considered an old mod does not stand up to healthy comparision with newer technology and the likes of the Magic and DMS mods. For instance a 233Mhz processor when compared to a P4 3Ghz could be said to 'suck'. Yes the 233Mhz does it's job and someone may be using one now (a processor that is around 4 or 5 years old) with no problems at all, but that does not mean that it stands up for direct comparison to todays new technology.

    You ask for proof. I presume you mean scientific evidence or something that could be substantiated in a court of law. Seeing as saying something 'sucks' is in fact a personal opinion it is logically impossible to provide such evidence, so your inital request for such actually negates itself and hits a logical dead end before any attempt at an answer can even be constructed. Everyone is entitled to an opinion, it's the beauty of free speech and democracy. However I made an attempt toprovide 'evidence' here it is.

    A neo 2.2 costs me approx £2 and then £10 (£12 total) for the swap disc and takes me approx 40mins to fit. A Magic 3.1 clone costs me £9 and takes approx 1 hour 15mins to fit.

    Basically thats £3 pounds LESS money than the swap disc solution and only half an hour extra to fit. And the benefits are direct boot of all media, compatible with all versions(except V8) whereas the Neo 2.2 will not even work with a V7 and of course DVD9 ready. To name just the main 3 benefits. When I take these factors into consideration, particularly the cost and time to fit it seems natural to draw the conclusion that the Neo 2.2 'sucks'.

    Could you please highlight the section of my post that is in fact 'unproven' if you were not refferring to the 'sucks' comment directly, as I fail to find any falsehood in the other aspects of my post such as the double swap technique.

    And to bodul. Yes I am aware that V4 PS2's and Magic 3.1's are comaptible. I would like to draw your attention to the section of my previous post that says 'speaking from personal experience'. I did not say there were incompatible, I said in MY PERSONAL EXPERIENCE V4's (because of the older poorer lasers) CAN I repeat CAN sometimes, I repeat SOMETIMES have problems reading backups. It's something to think about if the person modding your PS2 will still charge you for the work even if it doesn't boot consitently or even at all.

    I wasn't aware that I have to define and clarify everything I say here in such technical and minute detail to avoid the retribution of others for what could be consdiered nothing more than a personal opinion. Please be aware I have taken good note and will always express myself in such a longwinded and ineherently dull and technical way in my future posts so as to avoid completely any possiblilty of misinterpretation.
    This message has been edited since posting.

    [bold]Last time this message was edited on 29 May 2003 3:05 AM[/bold] <-----***You where the only one editing***


    DextrsLab

    We don't like smart alecks here. Especially ones who give misinformation and then back step to try make what they said valid.

    If a chip works at what it is supposed to do it doesn't suck. That is a personal opinion and is not valid, no matter how long an explanation you make. If all you have to say in a reply is that a chip sucks, then DO NOT REPLY it WILL be removed.

    Topic closed.


    Lets see

    1) You post a reply trying to offer help which is good, but say something not true "Neo 2.2's Suck" which is a biased opinion, but I will prove that later...

    2) I reply "Your comments are not substantiated, please refrain from such unproven replies"

    3) You give a testiment AFTER THE FACT (backpeddling) as to why you believe Neo 2.2's suck, and I quote


    I find this part to be interesting you are trying to support that a chip sucks because it costs you more? Not based on that it does what it was made to do, but that doesn't matter to you it seems.

    4) You edited your reply (which may or may not have been anything but who will know)

    5) I reply with (and I paraphrase)

    "you give misinformation and then backstep to try to make what you said valid....If a chip works at what it is supposed to do it doesn't suck. That is a personal opinion and is not valid"

    I then give you a warning of what will happen

    "If all you have to say in a reply is that a chip sucks, then DO NOT REPLY it WILL be removed"

    EvilAngel if you would have heeded that comment there would have never been a problem afterward. but you started to cry.

    You are a seller/installer in disguise, as you made clear you get chips and swap discs at wholesale and install them also. I closed that topic to avoid anymore comments (hopefully but it didn't work). Your next posts where directly aimed at me and disrepectful at that. I just hid or deleted them to avoid your taunts. Some got to me, but I was trying to make clear to you it is not a personal thing or vendetta against you. IT IS FOR EVERYONE.

    Believe me when I say you should have made it a "vendetta", becuase of a few things above that I busted you on which are grounds for banning.

    Seller
    Installer
    Flamer

    But I stayed on topic and have STILL been explaining one thing. YOU ARE NO DIFFERENT THEN ANYONE ELSE. All this because you caught a tantrum when I showed that you where wrong because you where saying it sucks on the basis you just don't like it becuase it costs you more $ WHICH doesn't mean it doesn't work properly at it's task. That makes your comment biased/untruthful and definately not informative or helpful.

    You don't seem to understand this nor want to admit that all I did was simply advise to avoid such comments because it leads to arguements. [bold]Which it did[/bold] just like I said it would which proves me right and why there is a stipulation that you beleive you are so speacial as to not adhere to or obey. Who is the child...

    I was only trying to keep the forum as clean as possible in the easiest way, not trying to "change people views" or to quote you and what New2This believes also "Dex thinks otherwise. It seems he wants to decide what other peoples opinions should be" When all I am doing is trying to keep this forum clean from flaming wars. Which worked quite well for almost 2 months until you came along and did not want to adhere to these rules.

    Everything that happened afterwards outside of the above link "newbie no luck" was just a pure violation of rules, blatant flaming, disrepectful words/cursing, degrading talk(or at least trying too) etc. You have gone from one topic to another in hopes to prove you did nothing wrong, and even demanded an appology!

    You say I edit and remove posts. It is because I have to, so as to keep the forum clean from people like you who believe they are special and do not need to fit into said rules. This whole topic I have placated for far too long. And I think the long timer members here will agree. It is what it is and that is it. Deal with it. Do not twist my words around your "psychological outwitting" to quote you will not work and taunts like "Believe me you really screwed with the wrong guy this time" are not needed here at aD.

    I said this once before to you but did not enforce it strong enough

    [bold]I see this topic over and finished[/bold]

    ANYMORE posts on such topic WILL be deleted, removed, or hidden.

    *Closed*
     
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