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Magic 3.1 boots PS1 Backup, but not PS2 DVD-R???

Discussion in 'PS2' started by fyphon, Apr 8, 2003.

  1. fyphon

    fyphon Member

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    I guess the title says it all, info is so hard to find...

    I'm looking for some way of testing the DVD-R capabilities of the chip?

    I've read on the forums that only three wires are required to check for PS1, which do work for me, but a DVD-R backup of Resident Evil Code:VERONICA on SmartMedia doesn't want to boot, it just gives me the screen asking for a PS1/PS2 Title. I've burnt the DVD-R using Nero.

    Any suggestions?

    TIA,

    Fyphon Silter
     
  2. fyphon

    fyphon Member

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    Well, seems like the forum I thougt would give me an answer turns out to be not as good as I thought??? (Thinking out loud in case someone reads!!!)

    Regards,

    Fyphon
     
  3. Talesk

    Talesk Guest

    I feel your pain.

    I have a V7 console, modded with a Magic 3.1. I can boot PS2 and PSX originals, and PSX backups. I cannot boot PS2 DVD-R backups!

    ---------
    I've tried TDK DVD-R and backed up my copy of Suikoden III with Nero and DVD Decrypter as per the instructions found in this forum.

    Neither backup worked!!! Is this a media issue?
    ----------
    I assumed it was a bad install of the Magic 3.1 chip, I looked at a couple of diagrams.

    Here is a V7 install guide from the Magic 3.1 manuf's website:
    http://www.china-magic.com/magic3/diagrams/MAGIC_III_V7.jpg

    Also on this website I found an alternate +5V solder spot, found the chip on it's alternate location on my V7 motherboard, and soldered the 5V to the lead to get power from the alternate location... still didn't work: http://www.china-magic.com/magic3/diagrams/MAGIC_III_+5V2.jpg

    Finally i found this picture on their website: http://www.china-magic.com/magic3/diagrams/W_ALTERNATIVE.jpg

    The last image is an alternate solder point for wire W if DVD backups do not work. This didn't work for me either.

    I tried e-mailing Modchip.ca (aka modchip.com, modchip.us and javex.com). The support staff treated me like a retard and told me to screw off and take an electrical engineering course.
    -----------
    I've tried a lot to get this piece of crap magic 3.1 to work and sofar nothings helped.

    Please anyone, help us out... help us figure out what's wrong (other than us having Magic 3.1 chips)

    Many thanks,
    -Talesk
     
  4. eureca2k3

    eureca2k3 Member

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    Im getting my mod on monday or tuesday which is a magic 3.1. Is it suppose to be able to play dvd-r back-ups? Also can the magic 3.1 play a back up of gameshark 2 3.0?
     
  5. fyphon

    fyphon Member

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    At least, I know I'm not the only one with this problem, thanks for your input.

    Here's an update:

    I have tried a differnet type of media, still no go.

    I also tried a differnet software to burn which does have a Playstation 2 option, Alcohol 120%. Gr8 software, but still no go.

    I'm going to borrow another game for a friend and update this thread when I do try it.

    My last ditch effort will be to open up the PS2 and check all my connections again.

    Hope I don't get to the point where I have to change chips?!?!?!

    Good effort, cause luck has nothing to do with it.

    Fyphon
     
  6. fyphon

    fyphon Member

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    Something else that could help is if we could try and burn these on CD's.

    I have seen threads about backing up a DVD game to CD, but not much info there, just a lot of yap about this and that, but no real info.

    Does anyone know how to do this?

    To be specific, how does one take a DVD rom game and burn it to a CD?

    Thanks to all that read and input good info.

    Fyphon
     
  7. Oner

    Oner Moderator Staff Member

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    Other than changing media (which you have tried), it must be the chip, the install or the PS2 laser itself. Try burning a DVD movie backup to the media you have and then play it in the PS2. If it plays then you know it is the chip or install, if not it could be a combination of everything above. Hope you work it out.
     
  8. haider83

    haider83 Guest

    hi!
    my ps2 has a mod chip (dont know which one..sorry!).been playing my backup ps2 dvds and backup ps2 cds on it directly w/o any swapping or any problems for a while. just recently my ps2 started messing up... i have to reset it 40-50 times to get the same backup dvd games started but it plays the backup ps2 cds ( yes backup ps2 cds) or any other media just as before... perfectly well. and if by some strange twist of fate my backup dvd starts.. it plays ok..so i really dont think its the lens. people! a little help !
     
  9. jodge407

    jodge407 Guest

    Just curious but did you install the chip yourself?
     
  10. haider83

    haider83 Guest

    no... it came installed. custom order, i wanted it to play backup dvds
     
  11. Talesk

    Talesk Guest

    I installed my own mod chip, using a mod clip for the bios connections.

    I used a multi-meter and checked the connections.

    Connections seemed good.

    I'm confused as to why it plays all other types of discs other than what I got the freaking thing for.

    I've tried TDK & Verbatim DVD-R's, they don't seem to work... I did the comparison at the end of burning and the copy is identical to the original.
     
  12. haider83

    haider83 Guest

    i dont want to change chips either. plus my chip was working perfectly well just a week ago. then i dont know wat went wrong. but this forum has made me reach the conclusion that v7 ps2 with this mysterious "illness" all have something to do with magic 3.1 chip. i think i'll clean the lens agin using liquid then try it. will update later. thanx guys, its good to know i'm not alone.
     
  13. fyphon

    fyphon Member

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    It's nice to see that this thread is picking up a bit of speed.

    Just so everyone knows, my PS2 is also V7.

    I will try out a couple of things discussed here, and get back to the htread once I have more info.

    Thanks everyone for joining in, and not start a chip flame war :)
     
  14. Talesk

    Talesk Guest

    DextrsLab> Since your a moderator your probably fairly knowledgable.

    ∙Are there any proceedures for checking the install (detailed use of multimeter, or visual inspection guide lines)?
    ∙Are there sub-versions of the V7 console that the chip may not work with?

    My PS2 is pretty much brand new, so I'm sure it's not the laser. I've used the best DVD-R media I could find and that didn't help either.

    I'm suspecting the install, the console, and the chip now.

    If console, not much I can do other than remove the chip and sell it.

    If the chip, e-mail modchip.ca/modchip.us (where i got it) and complain.

    Side note to comsumers: I recommend that no one buy from them (modchip.us/modchip.ca). They are very rude and belittling in their responses for Sales inquiry and for Tech support (not a good policy to bash people before they even buy things), Also their Tech Support is trash.

    If the install, Can you forward me to threads/webpages that have more detailed install instructions incase I've missed something?

    Something stateing which wires are required for PS2 DVD booting would be helpful so I can focus on those connections rather than ALL connections.

    Thanks,
    -Talesk
     
  15. haider83

    haider83 Guest

    hello!
    yes i do agree that a flame war will be useless. we'll reach our solutions by pointing out our problems and eliminating thier sources, may it be the magic chips in question or some other factor responsible. i cleaned the lens using lens cleaning liquid, needless to say, it was a futile effort, my ps2 is a pretty new machine. now i'm going to take my ps2 to a local videogame store, get it checked there. i cant go to the original sellers because they are in UK, my advice to you guys is take it back where you bought it from.i'll update you guys later tonight. have a nice day all, thanks.
     
  16. jodge407

    jodge407 Guest

    haider83 if you brought your PS2 premodded why don't you send it back and ask for a replacement?
     
  17. jodge407

    jodge407 Guest

    Sorry double post
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 14, 2003
  18. cozmo2

    cozmo2 Member

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    Listen guys I have installed about 10 messiahs and 30 magics, just completed two this weekend, and trust me it is the install 95% of the time. Media is easy to eliminate. Just make sure it works in another modded unit first. For everyone with V7s, some of the drives are not calibrated right for dvd-rs. A simple adjustment will fix this. It has worked for me every time. I will post Charlie's lazer adjustment guide and his troubleshoting guide. He is a little messiah biased, but his guides are very good and work for both Magic and Messiah.
     
    Last edited: Apr 14, 2003
  19. cozmo2

    cozmo2 Member

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    MESSIAH2 (& MAGIC 3.x) TROUBLESHOOTING GUIDE


    Tools
    You need an 8x magnifying glass to identify bridged pins. Solder balls behind the BIOS or CD/DVD Controller legs are a common problem; two pairs of reading glasses used with the 8x magnifying glass will help. A multi-meter will check continuity between pin and pad on the Messiah 2.

    PS1 backups won't boot
    First suspect SCEx. PS2 components are lacquered & a good electrical connexion is necessary. If too much heat is applied during soldering, it might have damaged that component. Otherwise suspect that you haven¡¦t put the Messiah 2 into PS1 mode (see Operating Instructions).

    PS2 backups/imports (CD-R/DVD-R) won't boot or Red Screen Displays
    Disk was seen (groove found & focused) but PS2 was unable to identify it as valid disk type (Audio/DVD/PS1/PS2). Note that if the groove had not been found, the Browser would have displayed No Data.

    If it¡¦s all backups that won¡¦t boot, first suspect is B C, then try cleaning the laser lens with a cleaning CD. If it¡¦s just DVD-Rs that won¡¦t boot, suspect wires E, R, W or the DVD laser diode (which may need recalibration). Laser Azimuth might also need adjusting.

    Then suspect a loose wire, solder bridges or solder balls. If you can¡¦t see bridges/balls, then it¡¦s the hard way. If the BIOS wires are attached, detach them from the BIOS & clean up. Boot a backup using AR2/GS2. If it works, A-I are OK; the BIOS was the problem. (You can try this with the BIOS wires still attached but if it doesn¡¦t work, you¡¦ll have to take the BIOS wires off).

    When you can boot backups (including DVD-R) with AR2/GS2, carefully re-attach the BIOS wires, MNOP QTUV RW. Note that R and/or W may be located off the BIOS chip on certain PS2 models. Then try direct booting of backups and/or imports.

    "Disc Reading" displayed on Browser Screen
    The disk was seen (groove found & focused). The PS2 was able to identify it as a valid disk type (Audio/DVD/PS1/PS2) but cannot do anything more with the disk or takes ages to load.

    This is most likely a laser related issue (clean the lens and/or the disk). Or recalibrate the laser.

    If the drive seems to load sluggishly (like it seems not to have enough power which is not the case), particularly in PS1 mode, check wire SCEx.

    "No Data" displayed on Browser Screen and/or Clicking sounds
    The disk was NOT seen (groove was not found nor focus established). In this situation nothing will happen with the particular game. This is almost certainly a laser or media related issue that MIGHT be resolved by:

    1. Cleaning the lens with a lens cleaning CD
    2. Adjusting Laser Azimuth (see below**)
    3. Recalibrating the laser diode down by 10% to increase power to the laser
    4. Using different media/burn speed. **


    The clicking sound is often assumed to be the lens trying to focus. The clicking to which this article refers is akin to a short dull thunk, caused by the laser sled being driven past the micro-switch that ishould detect this and which should then stop the track motor.

    On PS2 pre-v5, the older the PS2, the more likely it would be that there has been laser degradation; clean the lens with a lens cleaning CD.

    On v5/v6, hope that the lens needs cleaning or it's a media issue.

    **On v7, there is a well reported history of 1 in 5 units being very fussy on the laser, with DVD-R. The solution in nearly every case has been:

    1. Adjust the laser azimuth, combined with
    2. Use of Traxdata DVD-R media

    The laser azimuth adjustment is about the default height from and parallelism of the lens to the disk surface. If set too low, then, particularly if the rails on which the sled runs aren't parallel with the disk (White Cog Adjustment), the lens can collide with the disk. Laser Azimuth is separately described in the FAQ, but basically:

    1. If the laser unit sled is 'slack' when bearing on the rails, it needs adjusting
    2. You would tighten the azimuth screw that bears on the rails & slacken off when tight
    3. You would boot a Traxdata DVD-R, adjusting till it works


    Screen remains black
    Assuming the electrons were whirling initially, this is usually a mis-install on the BIOS, often MNOP. But it could also be [b[A-I[/b]. Points should be checked & solder balls suspected.

    If the electrons never happened, then some wires likely snagged when you put the PS2 back together & possibly a fuse has blown. Wires or ribbon cables may have been caught in the screws when re-assembling the PS2.

    Also it is possible that the Messiah 2 is grounding on the metal case or the wires are not lying flat on the motherboard; then under compression the stripped wire ends touch (to much stripped).

    If you have a memory card inserted, try removing it. Some people have had black screen issues when their memory card was inserted (see below).

    DVD Movies don't boot
    Check your boot method. If booting an import movie with GS2/AR2, remember to boot GS2/AR2 with the PS1 method above (or with Messiah 2 switched off) so as to bypass what Messiah 2 would otherwise do for PS2 games.

    CD/CD-R games boot but not DVD/DVD-R
    It is likely that one of the following causes applies:

    1. The W wire or the R may be incorrectly connected.
    2. The laser lens is dirty & should be cleaned with a cleaning disk or a cotton swab. The DVD is read at a higher frequency than a CD and results are more sensitive to a dirty lens.
    3. The laser needs re-calibrating because of wear and tear. This is a complex process separately described in an FAQ article.
    4. The laser needs replacement because of severe wear & tear.
    5. On v5/v6 models, the CLK wire needs attention as per a later article in this guide.


    The PS2 disk tray won¡¦t open when EJECT is pressed at power on
    If the lights are on but you can¡¦t open the tray, Messiah 2 is likely to be misinstalled & most likely the connexions to the BIOS chip.

    Messiah 2 won't boot if Memory Card is in
    ... but you can re-insert the memory card after booting. This might be accompanied by a loss of controller vibration. Examine fuse at PS7 marked with the legend S7.

    Messiah 2 appears dead (pcb fault)
    If you are certain your install is good yet Messiah 2 appears dead, then your Messiah 2 might be fussy about voltage; the Messiah 2 pcb has an error whereby a diode that regulates input voltage for the Actel chip is shorted & thus ineffective. Some Actel chip batches or wafers within a batch work tightly within a spec 2.6v to 2.9v; hence the Messiah 2 will not function. The fix is to cut a track or drill out a via as shown in the photograph A in attachment TSG Pictures.jpg.

    Messiah 2 appears dead (Actel wafer fault)
    IF you are certain your install is good yet Messiah 2 appears dead
    AND you have Messiah 2 PRO from Actel batch 0245
    AND you have applied the pcb fix described previously
    THEN
    it is possible your Actel wafer is not working within nominal voltage spec. The on-board diode on the Messiah 2 PCB is unable to pull the voltage down sufficiently at a particular point in the boot process. Note that PS2 voltage points are not 100% stable & can surge, say to 3.6v at certain times when Messiah 2 is initialising; in such circumstances when the Actel wafer is at the lower end of its specification, Messiah 2 cannot properly initialise.

    The solution in this case is one of:

    1. Solder an identical diode in series with the original so that voltage to the Actel wafer is reduced to within its (out-of-spec) tolerance
    2. Exchange the Messiah 2 for one that will perform properly.


    Sound is tinny or odd or fails
    This can occur on v5/v6 PS2s ¡V but in theory it could happen in any PS2. The wire carrying the 36MHz. clock to Messiah 2 is inducing noise in other circuits. A long CLK wire at frequ's above 20MHz acts as it own capacitor which also degrades the clock. This is resolved by ensuring there is a proper ground plane along the length of the clock wire. The alternative ways of dealing with this in order of priority are:

    1. Lay the CLK wire flat along the motherboard not crossing over any components.
    2. Wire the CLK signal as a twisted pair**, with the other wire being grounded at both ends.
    3. Use thicker wire (24 awg/25 swg) but lay it flat.

    ** This method for applying solution (2) above was kindly supplied by Fatcat. With reference to the attachment TSG Pictures.jpg:

    Obtain 2 pieces of Kynar wire; place two ends in a vice and the other two ends in a chuck on a cordless screwdriver or similar gadget that can turn. Rotate the gadget until you have one length of twisted wire.

    Photo B shows where one wire (RED) has been soldered to a GND point & the other wire (YELLOW) to the CLK point on the motherboard.

    Then route the wire over to the Messiah 2 chip. Photo C shows where the twisted wire appears at the Messiah 2; the GND (RED) wire simply is soldered to the GND connection point on the Messiah 2. Likewise with the CLK (YELLOW) wire soldered to the CLK connection point on the Messiah 2.

    If all else fails and it still doesn¡¦t work ...
    Back out of your installation, get the PS2 under control into "normal condition" and begin again


    charlie_ps2
     
    Last edited: Apr 14, 2003
  20. cozmo2

    cozmo2 Member

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    LASER AZIMUTH ADJUSTMENT


    Laser adjustment is one of the issues of the day as v3s and NEO2.2 v4s begin to expire when DVD-Rs are booted. So I asked my famous "mate round the corner" to brief me on the detail and here's what we've put together for you (updated with diagrams).

    I've highlighted this paragraph because it will help make sense of everything else. The light wavelengths involved with CD/DVD are in nano-metres. No CD/DVD is manufactured so that the centre hole is exactly in the centre and that the CD/VD is exactly flat. The deviation will always be more than a DVD wavelength. So the laser 'floats' - that is to say as it follows the minutely wobbling and pitching groove, it reads the reflected light coming back, merging part of it with it's own beam and measuring the phase difference, the result being applied to an algorithm that tells the laser to adjust in either plane. With CDs it is far less critical and a single collecting diode is used to measure this deviation. With DVD there are four diodes that examine the pahse difference of the reflected light so that much tighter adjustment can be made as the groove is followed.

    The laser assembly is mounted on a sled (see picture laser sled scew.jpg) which runs on two round steel runners. The azimuth adjuster screw - the one on the left side of the assembly) will tilt the assembly slighty by lifting one side off its rail. Experiment shows that the potential range of adjustment is very large; normal CD's and DVDs will read reliably over several turns of this screw.

    However, DVD-Rs and CD-Rs exhibit a very different range of adjustment. DVD-R is most critical due to its much shorter wavelength. When Sony set the machine up originally, the setting was probably made with a 'standard' DVD because this (and CD) was all the machine was ever going to play .

    Now that we are using CD-R and DVD-R, this adjustment is much more critical. Proceed as follows, with the PS2 already open - at your own risk of course:

    1/
    Carefully remove the top of the CR-ROM drive, four small screws.

    2/
    Power up and eject the drawer. Don't look into the laser lens, infra red is invisible and can cause retinal damage (it's probably safer to switch off when the cover is off the drive).

    3/
    Put a tiny drop of white correction fluid (or similar) on the screw to keep track of its position. You can feel how 'loose' the screw setting is by holding that side of the sled and seeing how much play there is. (This 'play' is deliberate, the screw must NOT be
    tightened up so that the sled cannot move.)

    4/
    Put an 'iffy' disk (DVD-R) in the drive. Put the drive's cover back on, no need to fit the screws, a small coffee mug stood on top will suffice. See how good the 'boot' is.

    5/
    Eject the disc, remove the cover and move the screw clockwise a little. KEEP A NOTE OF WHAT YOU'VE DONE. Try again. Be
    patient. Once you have found the position where boot will not happen, go the other way and find the other 'no go' end of the range.

    6/
    Keep going until you have a range of positions (probably less than half a turn) where the boot is best. Set the screw in the middle of that range.

    7/
    Verify that normal DVDs and CD still work OK. They should work, probably even better than before (if you'd notice).

    CAUTION: If you tighten the screw up tight then the sled will not be able to move and you may damage the sled motor or mechanism



    charlie_ps2
     

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