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Mid codes DVD vs CDR

Discussion in 'DVD±R media' started by BlueLaser, Sep 17, 2004.

  1. BlueLaser

    BlueLaser Member

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    Hi all. I recently bought a Dynex DVD/CDR writer. Listed as an 8X DVD and 40X CD-R burner, all for $89 at Best Buy. Now the bad news. I 1st tried to burn a CD-R using Nero and get a write speed of 8 to 10X!! I have not tried DVD yet. For media I tried a Dynex CD-R, Fuji and Sony. NO luck.

    I updated the firmware to the latest version and again slow writing. I installed their speical OEM version of Nero 6 and it actually was a little slower. I contacted tech support on the web and they can NOT read letters. IF I say I updated my firmware, They tell me to update my firmware anyway for example. Typical BS from a company that can't tell you they aren't really being honest anyway. (honest about the writing abilities of the machine). I don't mean to sound paranoid, but I have been down this road before when something doesn't work right, they of course won't tell you. There was one interesting point in my letter. The guy wanted to know the MID code of the media I used. Otherwise, the letter was so short it didn't say much.

    My questions are, how do I determine the MID code of media like say a Sony, TDK, or even Dynex CD-R? Also aren't MID codes (manufacturer identification code) used mostly (or only) on DVDs? I'm starting to believe there isn't any good DVD writers for $89, LOL, and that maybe Plextor, or Sony has better writers. Any comments on that are appreciated too. My advise to others, if You see a Dynex and think "good deal", think again... Thanks.







     
  2. BlueLaser

    BlueLaser Member

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    I wanted to add that my system is on an Asus motherboard at 3.2Ghz, with 1GB of ram, with 800mhz front side bus. So it is plenty fast enough to handle everything. No matter what I do I get a write speed of 10X.. My other DVD writer, a Sony DRU-510 ( i think), gets a write speed of 24X for CDR. So I want to buy a new DVD that is better tahn my Sony 2X writer. And again, I need to know how to get the MID code on CD-R media. Thanks again.
     
  3. Mort81

    Mort81 Senior member

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    You need a program such as dvdinfopro or dvdidentifier to determine the media codes. They both should offer a freeware version available on the web. And yes cd's have a media code as well.
     
  4. BlueLaser

    BlueLaser Member

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    Thank you very much Mort. I downloaded both and tried them out. Unfortunately the 1st one give me an error that says "Show complete media code" it returns with message (at bottom), "Invalid media for command"

    In DVD Indentifier I select Disc and Identify from the menu and it says "Disc Identification Requires DVD+R/+RW, DVD-R/-RW or DVD-RAM Media And Matching Writer"

    I tried with burned and empty media on both programs. Could it be that it can only identify MID codes on burned DVDs, and it won't work on CD-Rs? I put a DATA DVD in and DVD Identifier gave me this:


    [00:46:26] DVD-R/-RW Medium Detected. Starting Identification...
    [00:46:26] ** Initiating LPP Retrieval
    [00:46:26] LPP Read Completed Without Errors
    [00:46:26] Disc Identification Completed Successfully

    For a data DVD I get:

    00000000 00 6C 00 00 01 40 C1 FD 9E D8 50 00 02 87 0D 13 .l...@....P.....
    00000010 88 99 80 00 03 4C 65 61 64 20 44 00 04 61 74 61 .....Lead D..ata
    00000020 20 20 20 00 05 00 00 00 00 00 01 00 00 00 00 00 .............

    But I couldn't find any MID code.. I looked at the hex dump it didn't seem to reflect a MID code either. But again, neither program would give me a MID code for a CDR.

    I will post the complete error I get when a CDR is in place, in case that give anyone a clue what might be going on. I just assume it can only do DVD's. Any more ideas? Thanks again.

    ===


    [00:52:04] DVD Identifier V3.4
    [00:52:04] Initializing ASPI/SPTI Drive Interface
    [00:52:04] SPTI Drive Interface Successfully Initialized
    [00:52:05] 1 Supported Drive Found (Out Of 1 Available Drive)
    [00:52:05] Manufacturer Database [03-JUL-04@101$62] Loaded From File : (@101$62) Entries Found
    [00:52:05] Internet Version Check Postponed Since Last Check Happened Less Than 1 Hour Ago
    [00:52:09] Unsupported Medium Detected
    [00:52:09] Disc Identification Requires DVD+R/+RW, DVD-R/-RW or DVD-RAM Media And Matching Writer
     
  5. Mort81

    Mort81 Senior member

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    I'm sorry, I misinformed you, dvdidentifier won't show media codes for cd's. Heres what I get on a blank audiobahn cd useing dvdinfopro.
    Media Information


    Format Capacity Not Formatted
    Free Blocks 736966656
    Free Capacity 702.83MB(736.97MB)
    Media Type CD-R
    ATIP Start Time of Lead In (Media Code) 97m28s26f
    ATIP Last Possible Start Time of Lead Out 79m59s74f
    Manufacturer Name Multi Media Masters & Machinery SA
    HD-BURN Certified NO
    Available Write Descriptor CAV 40.0x 6000KBps
    Available Write Descriptor CAV 32.0x 4800KBps
    Available Write Descriptor CAV 24.0x 3600KBps
    Available Write Descriptor CLV 16.0x 2400KBps
    Available Write Descriptor CLV 8.0x 1200KBps
    Note the manufactures name although the media is sold under the audiobahn name it is actually made by multi media masters and machinary. This is by no means good media just some junk I have laying around. If or when you get into dvd reproduction you will want to stay with high guality media such as taiyo yuden or ricohjpn and alot of people like ritek ridata g04's although I don't recommend it as much as the other two. You might try and download dvdinfopro again as it should work for dvd's and cd's even before they have any data burned on them for a media code. Just click on the media tab on the top. Let me know what you come up with.
     
  6. BlueLaser

    BlueLaser Member

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    That's ok, I had both programs to try anyway :).. Only for some reason I couldn't get either to show me the manufacturer name on a cdr. I took out the Dynex and put my trusty Sony DRU-500A back to see if it would read a cdr's MID code. It wouldn't do it either and the status window reads "Media info for CD/DVD info only". At first I thought maybe one drive had a problem, so I tried the other. If I put in a DVD, it has no problem telling me my "purple" DVD's are Lead Data (are these ok?). I could run a speed test on either drive and found out this Dynex is slow as a cow on valium during reads.

    As for dvd reproduction I have been making them with the Sony for a while. I just wanted to try out the Dynex since it says it can write at 8X rather than the 2X my Sony does. But when I saw how badly they misrepresented their *slow* drive as a super fast rocket, I don't even want to chance buying any 8x DVD's. I ran the speed test for DVD and CDR's with the program you suggested at it's made the Sony look good. I'm ready to take it back for a refund. And as for the tech guy, I don't care what he has to say about media. If it can't write any of my major brand CDR's or even a Dynex CDR at faster than 8X, what is the point?

    I know the right media is important, but usually I can get 2 out 3 major brands at the store to work fine. This thing has not been fast on one blank, and I don't want to special order CDR's just to burn above 8X. DVD's are ok to special order, but CDR's it should be able to handle. I am still curious about what kind of cdr's I have. Do you have any idea why I can't get info on the cds? I wonder who really makes typical store bought Sony, Fuji, TDK and Dynex (lol). Do you think they might actually be lying on the box about it being able to write a cdr at 40x? I feel like I want to warn people about this horrid Dynex thing, but don't know a good place other than here. Thanks for your valuable info on dvdinfo and what media types to buy.
     
  7. BlueLaser

    BlueLaser Member

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    I did come up with something else. I googled until I found InfinaDyne, some program that can identify cdrs. It itentified an old Hi-Val cdr as "Prodisc Technology Inc. Type: Phthalocyanine (gold)" It sounds like a chemical (the dye?).. I tried about 8 other brands of cd's and they all said that no manufacturer was returned. Now I am thinking that maybe most CDR's don't have a manufacturer listed, yet dvd's do. And I'm thinking that you got lucky when the "Multi Media Masters & Machinery SA" printed for you.. Do you have any other cdrs you can try to verify that most cdr's don't have anything listed? I tried Sony, TDK, Dynex, Fuji, Memorex, Hi-Val, Verbatim and so on. Still none of them would show an id. The Hi-Val that printed the ID, would not show up in dvdinfopro. Thanks again for your help.
     
  8. forkndave

    forkndave Member

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    I've found that, with my computer anyhow, DVDinfoPro will identify blank CDs only. All burned ones show up as pressed discs. Lead Data has not been a very good manufacturer of DVDs for me. I've had a lot of problems with them. Lately, I've had the best luck with Ritek and Prodisc -R discs.
     
  9. Mort81

    Mort81 Senior member

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    Ok, first of all I have some old vcd's that I used phillips brand cdr's and they code out as cmc magnetics (which is junk) useing dvdinfopro and I also have some jenson cdrw's that code out as princo corp. I don't know why dvdinfopro won't show the media manufacturer for you.
    Lead data is not very good media. Here is a good media guidehttp://www.digitalfaq.com/media/dvdmedia.htm
    Most dvdrw's now will write cd's at 40x. Here is a good place to buy media as well as any kind of hardware.http://www.newegg.com/index.asp?DEPA=0
    I would check for a firmware update for your sony and possibly upgrade it to a 4x dvd writer. I don't understand the part about burning the cd's at only 8x thats very slow for cd's. My dvdrw is really only 4x dvd but I upgraded to 8x w/ some modified firmware, and it will also write dual layor now.
     
  10. BlueLaser

    BlueLaser Member

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    DVDinfoPro while very useful, gives everyone different results (depending on hardware). I read the whole good media guide 2 or 3 times now. Thank you for that mort. As you put it forkdave, I think having luck (or compatibility) is most of what is important when buying 100 blanks. ... When I bought my Sony DRU-500A disc prices were mostly over a dollar a piece. So I had to go mail order. Afterdawn is where I turned in Oct 2002 and other groups.. I needed a -R version so that I could also backup a few movies. The media list was new and only 1 or 2 brands worked correclty in -R.. Of course Sony worked, but I wasn't paying $1.50 to $1.80 a piece for them... After a few people said the leaddata worked great with Sony I tried them. So I had good luck with them. And I believe both of you that leaddata is not typically great media by the way.

    I think the media site you gave me is great and will be refering to it in the future. The only thing I slightly disagree with is that he says LeadData is 3rd class media and that I could expect success rates of 50%-80%. They may be typical (and sad if true), but I have now burned 71 of my 100 leaddata with zero coasters. I am no fan of that disc, but rather, I think a couple things are helping me. 1) the disc is just very compatible with that Sony and 2) I am only writing at 2X.

    I must compliment the Sony for no coastes. I just don't want to wait 1/2 hour anymore. I got spoiled ;-)... I originally bought Memorex and it made ALL coasters. Yet it is a 2nd class media and supposed to be better. I assume, compatibility problems with Sony again. But it goes to show some times good media is the one that works. I want an 8X writer really bad, and know my good luck streak could run out if I don't choose good media. So I will keep the good media guide handy and also try to find out what everyone else uses for what ever I buy. I'll also look for the "taiyo yuden or ricohjpn" you mentioned. I don't think my Sony DRU-500A can not be upgraded to write at 4X.. I think only the 510A can do that. I got one of the first ones that came out :-( I will recheck the firmware sites tonight, maybe I'm wrong and get lucky.

    As for that Dynex 8X thing. I don't understand the 10X for cdr's either. Actually I am mad at the thing. lol, It's out of my machine and ready to be returned. 18 seconds to open the tray after I press the button!!! The firmware erases itslef!!! And I had to reload the firware 3 times now! DvdInfoPro says it starts reading at 2x for the first 5 minutes! Then it jumps to 9X. It's a crazy drive..... I'm using my Sony again. It also has the words DUAL stamed on the front, as if it is implying it can do the 8+GB dual layer, haha. I will be spending more for a Sony, Plextor, etc. I saw this top 10 drive list (april) but Sony didn't make the list. http://www.pcworld.com/reviews/article/0,aid,115124,00.asp. Thanks again guys..
     
  11. BlueLaser

    BlueLaser Member

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    somehow my link doesn't appear to work right now.. sorry about that. Google will find it though. "8x dvd writer top ten".. but it sounds like you both have better drives than me.. I need to get one ;-)..
     
  12. forkndave

    forkndave Member

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    Actually, now you can get inexpensive dual layer burners that will burn dual layer at 4X and -R and +R at up to 16X. Two are the NEC ND-3500A and the Pioneer DVR A08 (108D). Check out the prices at http://www.newegg.com . They're not too bad. Light-On has some decent burners also and you can use Kprobe with them to check the quality of your burns.
     
  13. Mort81

    Mort81 Senior member

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    I wouldn't necessarily say better, faster maybe. I could be wrong but I was thinking lite-on made sony drives. Look around on this forum. They have some threads and discussions on sony's. http://club.cdfreaks.com/
    I'm not saying all memorex and leaddata are bad. It all depends on who manufactured the media at the time eg cmc magnetics is junk but I love ricohjpn. The only time I tried memorex I got cmc. You can also find quality proven media at better prices than under the memorex name. If you find some media that works well for you stay with it. Everybody's preferences and circumstances are different. I have a lite-on and have had no problems w/it and use the kprobe forkndave was refering to. One thing I like about it is I can flash it w/ different f/w as many times as I want and use a tool called omnipatcher to change write strategys for different medias and change booktype setting to dvd-rom on dvd+r media.
    _X_X_X_X_X_[small]AMD Athlon Thunderbird 1.33 Ghz 512 MB PC133 Ram
    Lite-On SOHW-832S f/w VS0B DVDRW
    18" lcd monitor
    Win XP Nero 6.3.1.20
    DVDXCopy Xpress 3.2.1 DVD Decryptor/DVD Shrink 3.2
    I know not too impressive saving my money[/small]
     
    Last edited: Sep 18, 2004
  14. BlueLaser

    BlueLaser Member

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    OMG! Wow, good reviews on both drives and prices around $80!!!? I'm very surprised. I am willing to spend around $150 to $180 for something good. But not to be a sucker.. I'd only do that if I thought there was a good reason to. The reviews say they are really good drives even though they are so inexpensive. I would want to be able to run Nero and/or EasyCd creator with both for data backup.. I wonder if dvdshrink would recognize them (I realize I could still move the files to another piece of software if it didn't). I'm not sure I'd like the software offered for the Pioneer. I like to stick will well known software. But both drives are impressive.

    If Nero or EasyCD will suport these and I'm sure they probably will, this would be awsome. Also, I was willing to pass on buying a dual layer drive in favor of a faster/better normal writer.. That's because 1 hour is too long to wait. I'd rather burn 2 4.3GB in 15-20 mins. But 8GB, 4X at 25 mins is neat. Still, my current wish is fast 4.3GB backup on affordable media (no headaches). Also to write out -R and still be able to get DVD to play on set top box. And the NewEgg looks like a good place to shop too. - I noticed Lite-on made that top ten list. So if they make Sony, maybe I could count that as being in the list.. in 2002 I was going to buy a Plextor but could not pass up the Sony because I could do all formats. I sort of feel comfortable with Sony, and wished they'd make the new drives a little faster on 8X single layer, and 2X dual layer. I read their 8X makes a 4.3 in 10 mins, while other drives were faster. Then I'd just settle for one from Best Buys.

    Have either of you heard of this BenQ thing that is fast?. It seems like everyone is coming out with better drives all at once. And they are all competing which is great for us. Anyone with the slow drive near Xmas will not sell.

    I can understand why you love ricohjpn being that they are high quality mort. I haven't heard of Kprobe that you guys suggested, but will definately give it a try. If I lose a movie I'd live, but some stuff I back up needs to be tested. The lite-on flash concept sounds great. What does changing the booktype setting to dvd-rom on dvd+r media do? It sounds like a new trick ;-)..
     
  15. Mort81

    Mort81 Senior member

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    If you do some shopping around on newegg some of the dvdrw drives will come packaged with nero6 and power dvd and will work great with shrink. The kprobe scan only works with lite-on or drives made by lite-on. I don't know about the benq drives, a lot of people seem to like em. Do some reading on that other forum I gave you, they also discuss benq's. I know they have a catagory just for lite-on owners and other manufacturer owners as well eg: nec, pioneer, benq, and plextor. Dvd-rom is what an original pressed dvd is booktyped as and is the most compatable format for dvd players (I don't know about xbox) but can only be done on dvd+r media and you have to use a bitsetting tool to accomplish this. I do it useing the omnipatcher I spoke of earlier. Its a firmware mod. and voids the warranty but if I had any problems, I could easily reflash the drive back to it's original f/w. Lite-ons are very forgiving. I'm sure other manufactures are as well. I'm just familiar w/ lite-on since thats what I own. My drive is actually a ldw-451s 4x single layor dvdrw but with the mod. f/w it is now recognized by windows and nero and all my other dvd writing and reading software as a sohw-832s and will now write at 6x or 8x and dual layor. Do some research and shop around. You can pick up a 16x dvdrw for around $80 with nero6 bundled in. Newegg is the best place I know of to buy, fedex shipping in 3 or 4 days no matter where you live. Only place I buy from. Let me know what you decide on. Here is an article that describes dvd-rom booktype setting a whole lot better than I can. http://www.dvdplusrw.org/Article.asp?mid=0&sid=2&aid=42
    _X_X_X_X_X_[small]AMD Athlon Thunderbird 1.33 Ghz 512 MB PC133 Ram
    Lite-On SOHW-832S f/w VS0B DVDRW
    18" lcd monitor
    Win XP Nero 6.3.1.20
    DVDXCopy Xpress 3.2.1 DVD Decryptor/DVD Shrink 3.2
    I know not too impressive saving my money[/small]
     
    Last edited: Sep 19, 2004
  16. Mort81

    Mort81 Senior member

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  17. BlueLaser

    BlueLaser Member

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    I can now see why being able to set bits to fool the player into thinking it's a dvd-rom is very useful. I'm not sure if it I need it now, but will be saving it for future reference. What I mean is that I use a set top that only likes -R media. I use shrink and Nero and this media, and the movies play fine. Trying to understand the advantage I think it must be in that your player can read +R, but it won't accept the booktype setting given as a default? What I find odd is why would a player reject a disc if the booktype setting were wrong. The article says it improves compatibility. The player rejects if the bookmark is wrong, so you fix it, now the player likes it, but it's the same media.. lol. Unless it's a copy protection method? What ever it is, I see why it is important for some users. I may need this if I buy a set new top box that is picky in this way. Now I wonder if I am doing the wrong thing by making -R dvd's that I want to play in future machines. Thanks for that info.

    It sounds like it's a good move to try and get a package like you said. I want to do some more research, definately. I still haven't decided on one, but this post has steered me towards much better drives. I just want to make sure I don't goof and buy the wrong media, or end up with cd-r's that will not play movies on the set top.. Or end up with some unstable solution at 8X that makes the coasters everyone worries about. Or find out I can't back up some cdr's with certain protections, etc etc.. It makes choosing hard. So I will need to research more and decide. I'm probably not going to buy one this week, unless it seems like an obvious choice. At the same time I'm not going to wait a real long time to get one either. I will try and let you know what I choose when I do. Thanks again for all the help and the articles.. I will be reading :)
     
  18. forkndave

    forkndave Member

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    I have a set top Panasonic recorder that will not play +R discs at all. It says in the manual that it won't. However, if the book type is changed to DVD-ROM it plays them fine. Apparently it is the firmware that tells it not to play them. Obviously it can read them but won't because it was told not to. I also have a Panasonic DVD player. It's not supposed to read +R, but it does. I guess a real old DVD player that won't play burned DVDs probably still wouldn't play them regardless of book type because it couldn't read them. I use -R mostly because I get better burns on both of my computer burners, not really because of compatability.
     
  19. BlueLaser

    BlueLaser Member

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    Ah ha! Now I am beginning to understand it better forkdave. Not that Mort's explanation was lacking.. I just needed an example or two because I am new to it. I have a Panasonic too.. a DVD-RP56. So I guess someone that only has some +R lying around could get away with it playing on a set top like that. And another possible advantage would be if the burner could do a faster burn on +R. Mine will also play +RW.
     
  20. forkndave

    forkndave Member

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    The only problem with bit setting is that all burners won't do it. I believe all Lite-Ons do. My Pioneer won't do it. I understand the Pioneer A08 automatically bit sets DL +R to DVD-ROM, but I don't think it will do it with SL +R. There are several brands that can do bit setting, but if you plan to use +R it's good to find this out in advance
     

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