1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.

New Sony, same song

Discussion in 'DVD / Blu-ray drives' started by DarkmanX, Dec 19, 2003.

  1. DarkmanX

    DarkmanX Regular member

    Joined:
    Jul 27, 2003
    Messages:
    158
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    26
    This is a plea to the guru's of Afterdawn. Nothing like a little ass kissing before a cry for help.

    I sent in my DW-U12A to be replaced by Sony. Never able to achieve 4X and after the firmware upgrades (2e)I couldn't get 2X. I rememebered a tech at circuit city asked about the motherboard setting. I refer to you guys and your wisdom in this matter. Before that I checked the device manager.

    DW-U12A location 0(0)
    cd-rom 1(1)
    Device manager settings:

    Primary IDE channel
    Device 0
    Device type:Auto Detection
    Transfer Mode: DMA if available
    Current Transfer:Ultra DMA mode 5

    Device 1
    Device Type: Auto Detection
    Transfer Mode: DMA if available
    Current transfer: Not Applicable

    Secondary IDE Channel
    Device 0
    Device Type: Auto Detection is greyed in
    Transfer Mode: DMA if available
    current Transfer-PIO is greyed in
    can't change this setting

    Device 1
    Device Type: Auto Detection greyed in
    Transfer Mode: DMA if available
    current transfer: Ultra DMA mode 2

    My BIOS
    Primary Master [1c35L090AVV207-0]
    Type [Auto]
    Multi-sector transfer [maximum]
    Smart monitioring [disabled]
    PIO mode [4]
    Ultra DMA [5]

    on the right side it states "warning Ultra DMA 3/4/5 can be enabled only when bios detects shielded 80 pin cable.

    Primary Slave
    Type [Auto]

    Secondary Master [sony dvdrw-u12a]
    Type [Auto]
    PIO mode [4]
    Ultra DMA [2]

    same warning about 80 pin cable

    Secondary Slave is CD_Rom
    Type [Auto]\PIO mode [4]
    Ultra DMA [2]

    I upgraded to the sony firmware 2.0c. The 2.oe gave me problems before. I have the Riteks GO4's and still Nero 5.5 10.42 and Recordnow max state that I am burning at 4X, but it takes 30-35 mins to burn. Recordnow still starts ok and then the time jumps from 14 mins to 32 mins at around 6%. This would be a great X-mas gift to get this taken care of. Happy holidays to all of you, regardless of this problem I have.
     
  2. MysticE

    MysticE Active member

    Joined:
    Nov 15, 2003
    Messages:
    2,787
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    66
    Last edited: Dec 25, 2003
  3. DarkmanX

    DarkmanX Regular member

    Joined:
    Jul 27, 2003
    Messages:
    158
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    26
    Today, I purchased an 80 conductor 40 pin cable, ATA-133 IDE from circuit city. I was told that there is no 80 pin cable. I have installed the cable and it still doesn't speed up burning. Do I need to make an adjustment in the BIOS, change the numeric number [ ]? The secondary IDE channel is still displaying "current transfer PIO" and is greyed out.
     
  4. drchips

    drchips Active member

    Joined:
    Nov 29, 2003
    Messages:
    1,157
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    66
    Hiya DarkmanX,

    try the following:

    remove the cd-rom from the secondary channel & set the Sony as slave, then boot into windows as normal.

    Wait for windows to get it's act together (no hard-drive access, it should have detected a change of device on the IDE bus & installed the driver).

    Check the settings for the Sony - What do they read?

    If it is STILL PIO, then there are 3 ways to tackle it:
    1 - search for a DMA Setting Utility
    2 - Edit the Registry
    3 - Wipe & Re-Load (drastic step)

    Registry Editing:
    Assuming you are using Win2000 or XP....

    HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE
    -> HARDWARE
    --> DEVICEMAP
    ---> Scsi
    ----> Scsi Port 1
    the right-hand pane will have 4 entries, the IMPORTANT one is
    DMAEnabled, edit it so that it displays the value of 1.
    close regedit & RE-BOOT.

    Check the DMA setting again.

    The principle applies for ALL the atapi devices.

    Play with master/slave combo's if you want, though I STRONGLY RECOMMEND the Sony being on a channel of its own as Master, even if it means buying a PCI IDE controller.

    Hope there is enough info there to help you (your Windows installation is a bit poorly, methinks).

    Have Fun...
     
  5. MysticE

    MysticE Active member

    Joined:
    Nov 15, 2003
    Messages:
    2,787
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    66
    Try going into Device Manager and uninstalling the IDE channel, re-boot and see if it come up right.

    Sony or Dell has addressed this problem. There is a file called 'PIOtoDMAfix.exe'. I have it but there appears no way to attach it here. It does exist, search hard at Sony's site although it might have been a Dell utility.
     
  6. DarkmanX

    DarkmanX Regular member

    Joined:
    Jul 27, 2003
    Messages:
    158
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    26
    Thanks for the response guys! I just spent 2 plus hours on the phone with 3 Sony Reps. The "head tech" told me that my burner will only burn at 4x with click to DVD. My computer doesn't have this program on it, there's a folder but no software. He stated that I needed to use my recovery disks again and uninstall everything and then partition the C drive larger than 15 gigs and then the recovery disks will put Click to DVD on my computer. He also stated that if i have loaded other software, like Nero and Recordnow, the drivers and other components will corrupt the drivers needed to burn at 4X. as far as the previous responses go, how do I remove the cd rom from the secondary drive and make the sony the slave? Do I switch the cables around in the case? I uninstalled the secondary IDE and rebooted. current transfer is now ultra DMA mode 2. Is it suppose to be at mode 5 like on the primary channel. Anyways, it's in ultra mode, so I'm going to make a test run to see what happens. I'll keep you posted. Thanks again
    _X_X_X_X_X_[small]Silent Assasin[/small]
     
    Last edited: Jan 6, 2004
  7. DarkmanX

    DarkmanX Regular member

    Joined:
    Jul 27, 2003
    Messages:
    158
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    26
    MysticE, you should apply for a job with Sony! Dude, I uninstalled the Secondary IDE channel and then rebooted and the transfer mode is no longer PIO, but ultra DMA mode 2. You would think that one of the Sony reps could've come up with that idea instead of that BS about their DVD burners are proprietary and only work with their specific software. I just finished a test run with Recordnow Max 4.5 and it took a little over 16 mins to burn a 4334 MB file!!! if that's not 4X, it's as close as I've ever been. Thanks alot for the tip. I'm doing another test right now, just to make sure this wasn't a one time thing. Thanks a lot to you too Dr. Chips. I must say that my ass puckered when I read your suggestions. Thank god it was a simple fix; but again, thanks alot for taking the time to respond to my inquery.
     
  8. MysticE

    MysticE Active member

    Joined:
    Nov 15, 2003
    Messages:
    2,787
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    66
    Cool! Ultra DMA 2 is correct, 16 min burns is definately 4X. As an aside it's usually best to have the burner as master, but if it's working leave it.
     
  9. DarkmanX

    DarkmanX Regular member

    Joined:
    Jul 27, 2003
    Messages:
    158
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    26
    Damn it!!! After the first time, it now resorted to starting at 4x and then drop to 2x...30 min burns the last two times. Using the Riteks g04's. I have my norton disabled and am running no other programs. any suggestions???? the burner is a secondary master already
     
  10. drchips

    drchips Active member

    Joined:
    Nov 29, 2003
    Messages:
    1,157
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    66
    DarkmanX,

    I've been sitting here watching the thread bounce back and forth....

    The only thing I can say at this time is this:
    You don't have JUST the problem that you perceive, it is more involved than that.

    I shall quote from my previous post
    I posted what I did for a reason.

    Sometimes the "Quick-Fix" is only tackling the symptoms, not the cause...

    I shall watch with interest.

    Have Fun...
     
  11. DarkmanX

    DarkmanX Regular member

    Joined:
    Jul 27, 2003
    Messages:
    158
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    26
    "remove the cd-rom from the secondary channel & set the Sony as slave, then boot into windows as normal" can you explain further Obiwan? Are you saying remove the cd rom and swap with the slave in the bios or swap the IDE cables? Furthwermore; are you saying that I need to re-install windows with my recovery disks? I reinstalled with the recovery disks before i sent the drive to sony. I apologize but please explain as if I was three. You stated at the end of your message to have the sony drive as a Master not a slave, so I'm confused. What am I looking for that is incorrect, so I'll know when it is corrected. The greyed PIO only in the device manager was something I could see that was wrong, but it now is at Ultra DMA 2 for the secondary IDE. Should the DMA in the Secondary IDE read ultra DMA 5, instead of Ultra DMA 2? Your previous recommendations were based on the PIO problem. What is the rational that there is a windows problem? Thanks for the patience.

    _
    _
    _X_X_X_X_X_[small]Silent Assasin[/small]
     
    Last edited: Jan 6, 2004
  12. drchips

    drchips Active member

    Joined:
    Nov 29, 2003
    Messages:
    1,157
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    66
    Hiya,

    Obiwan... I Like that!!
    I had just taken a mouthful of coffee when I saw that.
    Picture this: mouthful of coffee, can't swallow coz I am laughing but can't laugh properly coz I have a mouthful of coffee - nearly sprayed my keyboard & screen.

    OK, I shall try keep it simple, but I will be dealing with some low-level techie-stuff here so I shall try my best.

    IDE channels can have two devices on each channel (master & slave), each differentiated by the controller chip requesting indentification (challenge & response) that has to be provided in a timely fashion.

    The correct cable (80 conductor) is critical to UDMA support, this you already know.

    Now, during Windows boot, the low-level drivers (VxD) that have responsibility for IDE/UDMA support request an interrogation of the controller, the controller interrogates the devices and reports back what is available and their capabilities.

    If that low-level driver gets responses it does not understand, or does not like, or the driver cannot respond in a timely fashion, its parent process (part of the hardware detect layer) then decides that something may not be right and drops into a safer compatability mode (PIO) which allows continuation of service and data availability.

    It does NOT report this to the user because it would be disconcerting to say the least (and MS don't want millions of support calls for this kind of thing) - this data is available in the boot logs IF you request it.

    The registry is updated to reflect the fact that the IDE device is operating in compatability mode.

    Now, your Sony IS UDMA capable, your cable IS UDMA supportive, your IDE controller IS UDMA capable, your BIOS is UDMA aware, Windows IS UDMA capable BUT SOMEHOW the drive is PIO
    - that indicates that EITHER there is a hardware issue (drive/cable/controller)
    OR a software issue (timing/driver/registry/other conflict).

    The fact that you have managed at all to get UDMA accepted on the Sony strongly indicates that hardware IS NOT the issue (otherwise it would refuse & would stay on PIO);
    so there is only ONE OTHER hardware item that MAY have an effect, the other drive on the IDE channel.
    Hence my advice to remove it from the chain (for testing purposes).

    Furthermore, the Master device is interrogated FIRST, and you want your Sony to respond quickly to requests (UDMA is about speed, remember).
    Hence my advice to set the Sony as Master.

    Master/Slave configuration: on the back of each drive is a block of pins with a jumper on which select Master/Slave etc.

    When I said remove the other drive I intended you remove the IDE cable from the drive, it then becomes unavailable to the computer (and windows obviously).

    Now to software: as we have already pretty much ruled out hardware as the culprit, we have to look to Windows, as Windows is responsible for providing the services for ALL other software.
    You have stated that the Sony exhibited the PIO behaviour IMMEDIATELY AFTER you had performed a system restore using the factory-supplied CD.

    ERGO: you have made NO CHANGES to the software, and the Sony is NOT RECOGNISED by Windows as UDMA capable; but we know it is, you have proved it by managing to enable UDMA for it.

    Conclusion: the installation of Windows is in the worst case, faulty - in the best case, poorly configured.

    Now YOU did not install Windows, the PC supplier did when they configured the restore system for you (they CAN and OFTEN DO GET IT WRONG, they are not all-seeing, none of us are).
    Hence my observation that Windows may be poorly.

    Now, the question on UDMA:

    UDMA 2 is currently the fastest that optical drives support (commonly), so the Sony at UDMA 2 is correct.

    Your Hard-Drives SHOULD be at higher values than 2 (you state UDMA 5 for the PRIMARY MASTER, which is the Hard-Drive I assume).

    Phew!!!
    That is a lot of typing.

    Hope that is understandable, but it is a very complicated subject at a low level....

    _X_X_X_X_X_[small]Life is just more of the same:[/small]
     
    Last edited: Jan 6, 2004
  13. DarkmanX

    DarkmanX Regular member

    Joined:
    Jul 27, 2003
    Messages:
    158
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    26
    "you seek Yoda!!!" that was very well articulated-thank you. A few things that may or may not give you insight. The recovery disks were used in November. I have had this issue for a while, but was resigned to accept that my drive would not achieve 4X. I did not have a PIO issue until recently; at least I did not notice the setting; why, I don't know. The other thing is that I had used MSCONFIG to speed up my startup. I don't know if this an issue, because I would think even though the program does not startup with windows, it should start up when needed by an application. Just so I am clear, I am to remove the y IDE cable connecting the 2 devices to the motherboard and use the connector that is currently connected to the cd-rom, the other cable will not be connected. The use of the cd-rom cable will designate the DVD as the slave to the motherboard. If this corrects the problem, then is windows off the hook? If it doesn't fit, you must acquit. probably, not because that doesn't explain why the master isn't recognized. Hopefully, you have finished your cup of Joe before any other potential accidents...Thanks for hanging in there with me
     
  14. drchips

    drchips Active member

    Joined:
    Nov 29, 2003
    Messages:
    1,157
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    66
    DarkmanX,

    me confused!!!
    WHAT DOES THAT MEAN?

    What y cable?

    I have looked at an IDE cable, and there is no configuration possible that I can see that remotely resembles a Y cable!!

    Please explain...

    Sorry, I don't grasp what you are trying to say here.

    Look, I think the best solution is for you to ask someone to SHOW you about IDE cables, Master/Slave configuration jumpers etc.

    It would take way too long to try and explain using words and it would still be open to misunderstanding, but you will grasp the concept within a couple of minutes IF YOU CAN SEE it.

    Try the local computer shop, or the local school, or make friends with someone who knows - it is FAR EASIER if you see it.

    When you have done that, we can proceed.

    Sorry, but it is important that you have at least a basic grasp BEFORE you start playing around inside your PC.

    Have Fun learning...

     
  15. DarkmanX

    DarkmanX Regular member

    Joined:
    Jul 27, 2003
    Messages:
    158
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    26
    http://www.antec-inc.com/us/pro_accessories.html
    this is a link to the IDE cable I currently have so you can see my cable. It's threaded in a nylon mesh. The cable has two connectors' one bridges from the one in the middle to another. it's like if you placed two separate cables on a table and taped the ends on one together so there were two separate connections at one end. I also remembered that I have think I have a controller already. I had purchased a 200 gig Western digital hard drive and it came with it. A former co-worker installed. However, when i attempt to place the IDE cable directly into the controller, the computer doesn't startup right. It asks if i want to startup in safe mode because of the setup. Also I figured out that the designation of slave and master is done by configuring the plastic tabs on the rear of the devices.
     
  16. drchips

    drchips Active member

    Joined:
    Nov 29, 2003
    Messages:
    1,157
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    66
    DarkmanX,

    Ok, let us proceed.

    By convention, the master device is on the end of the chain and the slave in the middle of the chain.

    This is NOT a hard-and-fast rule, though good advice if you can conform to it.

    IDE cable connectors are normally coloured to indicate usage (the common colours are: black - master, grey - slave, red or blue - system board).


    Master/Slave jumpers:
    on the back of the drive you will see a block of 3 jumper positions with one of the positions occupied by what you refer to as plastic tabs - looks something like this:

    C S M
    S L A
    _____
    | . . . |
    | . . . |
    -------

    sorry about the crappy graphics.

    Reading the labels vertically:
    CS is Cable Select
    SL is Slave
    MA is Master

    Your drive may have them in a different order, check first.

    Move the jumper (plastic tab) onto the vertical pair of pins under the MA label.

    Connect the IDE cable (master position, if possible).
    Connect power.

    If you have another drive (CD-Rom for example) to go on the chain, configure it as Slave and connect it to the IDE cable in the middle position.
    Connect power.

    The Final connection on the IDE cable plugs into the SystemBoard.

    You are good to go.



    When you talk about the addition of the spare controller card to your system causing Windows to start in Safe-Mode, I am not surprised
    There is little I can do to help with that, it needs hands-on doctoring, lots of time, a PROPER XP installation cd (NOT a restore set) AND driver disks:

    So unless you can rope in someone (geek/nerd/techie) to do it for you, I would suggest you forget about using the spare controller card.

    Have Fun...
    _
    _X_X_X_X_X_[small]Life is just more of the same:[/small]
     
    Last edited: Jan 7, 2004
  17. DarkmanX

    DarkmanX Regular member

    Joined:
    Jul 27, 2003
    Messages:
    158
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    26
    ok, here is the skinny of it. I will have to settle for 2x on my burner. I spent all day yestereday setting up different configurations. I even purchased a Lite-on CD-RW to replace the standard cd-rom. first, no matter what config, I set the sony, the computer either ran extremely slow at startup and during operation, or it would not boot correctly. I initially set the Lite0n as the master and the Sony as the slave. The problem is that no matter what config, when I would go into the device manager the primary IDE channel would always indicate that device 0 would be current transfer mode at Ultra DMA 5, but device 1 (which was the dvd-burner) would state current transfer mode Not applicable. Both would have DMA if avaiable selected. The Secondary IDE channel would indicate that the current transfer mode was DMA Ultra 2. I tried to use one as a slave and the other as the cl, again, the computer did not like this setup. I tried both as a slave and... both as the Cl and well...you get the picture. The The config that at least is stable and reliable is that the Sony is the master and the Lite-on is the slave and they are connected to the motherboard. Startup is clean without any herky jerky with windows and it is stable during applications. I have learned a great deal though during this ordeal. The current settings is that the primary IDE transfer Mode is DMA if available; current transfer mode Ultra DMA 5. Auto detection is greyed in for device 0. Device 1, Auto Detection is not greyed in and transfer mode is at DMA if available and current tranfer is greyed in Not applicable. On the secondary IDE channel, Both Device Type are greyed in Auto detection, Transfer mode is DMA if available and the current transfer mode is Ultra DMA 2.Here's a quick ? though, if the Sony is the Master and the Lite-on is the Slave, then why on the computer is the Sony the F drive, but the Lite-on is G drive? Does this matter?
     
  18. drchips

    drchips Active member

    Joined:
    Nov 29, 2003
    Messages:
    1,157
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    66
    OK,

    it seems from reading your post you have the following config:

    Primary Master - Hard Drive
    Primary Slave - DVD Burner
    Secondary Master - CD Burner
    Secondary Slave - ??

    Is this what you have?

    Is this the total of ALL your drives (hard drives/cd drives/dvd drives)?

    If your configuration [bold]IS[/bold] as listed above, I am not surprised Windows is having a hissy fit.....

    Please confirm your config (preferably in the manner as this post - it can be a bit difficult extracting relevant data from a homogenous block of text).

    Awaiting your reply.
     
  19. DarkmanX

    DarkmanX Regular member

    Joined:
    Jul 27, 2003
    Messages:
    158
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    26
    Just checked the Bios.
    primary master-80 gig hard drive
    primary slave-? (probably the 200 gig hard drive
    using the controler IDE one slot)
    secondary master-Sony DW-U12A burner
    secondary slave- Lite-On CD-RW

    In Bios in the Boot section, ATAPI-CD Rom is the Sony burner
     
  20. drchips

    drchips Active member

    Joined:
    Nov 29, 2003
    Messages:
    1,157
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    66
    DarkmanX,

    That looks acceptable, not perfect but definately acceptable....

    Lots of the more obvious and simpler avenues of investigation seem to have been looked at.

    It is beginning to look like a situation whereby you point a techie at the kit.......

    I am suspicious about "Dealer-supplied Restore Disks", as one rarely sees a decent windows installation from them.

    Sorry, I think we have got to the point where I cannot offer any advice other than
    Sorry I could not be of any further help with this one, it is a problem I could probably solve in 2 or 3 hours hands-on, but not via this medium...

    As I said earlier
    you may have to put up with the best you can achieve.

    Good Luck.


    _X_X_X_X_X_[small]Life is just more of the same:[/small]
     
    Last edited: Jan 8, 2004

Share This Page