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NTSC to PAL with DVD Shrink or DVD Decrypter

Discussion in 'DVD Shrink forum' started by Animeniak, May 18, 2004.

  1. Animeniak

    Animeniak Member

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    Is there a way to burn a PAL DVD into a NTSC DVD or vice versa. I recently bought some European DVDs that I would like to watch at my family's home, but they don't have a multi region player, (but that part's not the problem), with the ability to convert [bold]PAL to NTSC,[/bold] (problem).

    I've looked all through the forums and no one seemed to ask this question. If I can't do it with DVD Shrink or DVD Decrypter...what can I do it with?

    Your assisstance in this will be much appreciated
     
  2. brian100

    brian100 Guest

    I just used the search facility and entered :-

    "Pal to ntsc"

    I found a lot of threads on the subject. One thing, for sure though, you cant do it with Shrink or Decrypter.

    Give it a go, you may be surprised what you find.
     
  3. sillycybe

    sillycybe Regular member

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    Hey now, I've bought PAL R2 DVD's from ebay and easily converted them using NeroVisoin 2. the program will notify you that the bulk of the content on the disc is PAL, do you want continue, it'll be NTSC, blah blah...let it do it. I can now watch great stuff like Vampire Circus and Twins of Evil ( my favorite vamporno movies)!
     
  4. Vad3K

    Vad3K Member

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    Could you explain a little how you did it? Do I go to nerovision and select "Create DVD" and then add .vob's from my pal dvd? I tried and it couldnt add like half of them. I would appretiate your help.
     
  5. siber

    siber Regular member

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    Once you overcome the Region Code, there really are no problems copying PAL to NTSC DVD's and vice-versa. You can use ANY software. Also remember that almost all DVD players can handle PAL and NTSC (European DVD players can show NTSC movies as long as the region code has been stripped, and the other way around). The only problem is the region code. The problem is slightly more complex with PAL/NTSC "TELEVISION" programs where the frame rate is quite a bit different.
     
  6. VLJ

    VLJ Member

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    I was wondering the same thing. I wanted to buy some German (language) movies like Terminator 3, and watch them with the English sub-titles turned on. However, if they are in PAL format, wouldn't I need to convert the PAL to NTSC for viewing on something other than my computer? I have the full Nero 6 Ultra Edition suite plus some other hardware/software from Leadtek Winfast TV2000 Expert capture card.
     
  7. Jerry746

    Jerry746 Senior member

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    Hi guys, European equipment in most cases can play both PAL and NTSC with no problems. However if you are in the USA PAL won't play properly unless converted to NTSC. A computer won't care which format it is burning but the TV its played on will.

    Siber, its not just the region code that determins PAL or NTSC. Region code and Video format are 2 different things.

    Jerry
     
  8. siber

    siber Regular member

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    Obviously, Jerry...

    I don't quite understand why nobody believes that a $35 DVD player (from Cyberhome) bought at Sam's or BestBuy WILL play your PAL DVD without any apparent deterioration on ANY NTSC television.

    The ONLY problem you would have after taking the player out of the box and connecting it would be that it won't let you play your movie because of the Region Code.

    You therefore need to find a hack/firmware to make it 'Region Free'. After that you are going to be fine...The player handles both VIDEO FORMATS.

    Jerry, I have 2 DVD players at home that are Region Free and which show my PAL and NTSC DVD's on my regular NTSC television. The TV is NOT multi-format but MOST DVD players are. Like I said in a previous post, the Region Code is the only reason why it is not more simple.
     
  9. VLJ

    VLJ Member

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    Excellent! I checked at the BestBuy online and saw the progressive scan DVD player there for $36.00. Shold play PAL and NTSC well. Thanks!!
     
  10. Jerry746

    Jerry746 Senior member

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    Siber, So you are saying that you play PAL dvd's on a NTSC TV without any video quality loss. You get a good stable picture???? I know this is possible in Europe, but those type machines are not suppose to be sold here as far as I know. I have heard people say they can play PAL here but get rolling video lines or color fade out when doing so. If it works for you, great.

    Jerry
     
  11. siber

    siber Regular member

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    Jerry, I also have a PAL VCR. With that one I would get a totally unwatchable picture. I have a cheap/old/analog Emerson PAL/NTSC converter for that purpose. Even with the converter, the picture is somewhat poor and I have to adjust the colors a bit.

    With the digital signal of a DVD player, there is apparently very little involved in making the signal NTSC/PAL compatible. MOST DVD players seem to be built the same way for all world markets and if you succeed in making the player region-free, you should be able to get excellent quality output with both PAL and NTSC.

    Like I said, this seems to be a very difficult thing for Americans to grasp. I must have told this story several times already, I use my PAL and NTSC DVD's on 2 region-free DVD players with a good old NTSC television here in Carolina, I know it works.
     
  12. vurbal

    vurbal Administrator Staff Member

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    Actually there's quite a bit involved, but there are certainly a growing number of players that can handle it. You say that it's hard for Americans to understand, but I understand just fine. I understand that my cheap Apex which was capable of playing either a PAL or NTSC disc couldn't give me a signal that would display correctly on either my RCA or Sanyo TV. The picture came out in black and white and rolled. That's very common from NTSC TVs and it's not a question of knowledge. It's a question of compatibility.

    If your TV is like most NTSC TVs it will have 2 problems. First of all the chroma (color) information isn't the same between the 2 standards. As a matter of fact, from what I understand, PAL has superior color, but if your TV can't figure out how to display it, all you get is the luma (light and dark) information, making it a black and white picture. Additionally, if you feed most NTSC TVs a 576 line signal, they tend to display the last 96 lines at the top of the screen after the frame they belong with. Each succesive frame will be displayed 96 lines lower, with the extra lines going to the next frame, until eventually you'll start back at the beginning. This creates the illusion that the picture is rolling.

    I'm perfectly willing to admit that there is equipment that can play it back properly, but please don't tell me that my TVs' inability to display a PAL signal is due to my lack of understanding, because I understand exactly what's happening and exactly why. That's why my next DVD player is going to be one with a built in PAL to NTSC converter, which, by the way, is apparently a feature that your players have if your TV can't handle a PAL signal from a VCR, and that's why they work the way they do.
     
  13. fasfrank

    fasfrank Active member

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    Vad3K,
    Make sure you have the newest version NeroVision. I had exactly the same problem...I could add some of the .vobs but one or two would give me an error. Updating to NVE 2.1.2.12 seems to have solved this.

    http://www.nero.com/en/nero-up.php

    Just select Make a DVD from the list, Once you get it open select More, then Video Options. A screen comes up that lets you choose between PAL or NTSC. I imagine this is where you would select the output format so it does the conversion.

    Experiment and see if it will work for you. I have never tried doing a PAL to NTSC conversion, it seems simple enough!

    Thanks vurbal, another excellent explanation of how things work.

    Cheers,
    Frank
    _X_X_X_X_X_[small]motorcycle racer
    computer newbie
    Sony VAIO
    Suzuki GSXR1000
    [​IMG][/small]
     
    Last edited: Jun 26, 2004
  14. siber

    siber Regular member

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    vurbal, obviously I was not implying that YOU did not understand. I have great respect for your knowledge.

    When I said: "Americans', I don't think I meant that to be taken as all-inclusive and that my target was every mod, senior member, Afterdawn addict.

    I generally try to be very measured with my words but I have found out very often that even a single ambivalent word or expression will elicit some response of outrage. I think I'll just take a little hiatus from the forum and lurk for a while.
     
  15. vurbal

    vurbal Administrator Staff Member

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    I apologize, siber. I had a sort of knee jerk reaction just because I've seen so many people make the claim you did who know a lot less about it than you do, and often times have no experience with NTSC. In your case I can see why you would draw the conclusion you did since it makes sense in the context of your own observations, and I wish more people would stop to make a few observations of their own sometimes. I realize you didn't intend to say that anyone who says otherwise is ignorant, and there was really no excuse for my snarky reply, so once again I'm sorry.

    With your observations in mind, I have a theory as to why the picture from your DVD players doesn't have the "not quite right" look that your converter produces. The difference is that DVDs are designed with reading ahead in mind, and therefore they have more than just the current frame or field to base their conversions on. It's actually similar to the way progressive scan players IVTC and deinterlace, and in fact the way MPEG files are read in general. For IVTC (restoring film source to 23.976fps progressive), the player has to read ahead to compare fields, and then redundant frames have to be decimated (removed). For a good deinterlacer to function it also has to read ahead in many cases to eliminate combing artifacts as well as possible. All DVDs use B frames, which means they are bi-directional and require future frames to be decoded in order to determine what the B frame should actually look like.

    Converting PAL to NTSC is sort of the opposite of IVTC. Instead of removing frames from the video, an additional 4.9 additional fps needs to be interpolated from the existing PAL frames, or maybe more likely, the video could be slowed down to 23.976fps and then telecined. At the same time the frames need to be resized so they're 96 lines shorter. With a VHS source the operation has to be done in real time, which is probably why the result is worse.

    I'm also not surprised that a Cyberhome player will do the conversion, because they seem to be ahead of the curve on features. They were the first manufacturer I heard of that included functionality for playing MP3s on DVD (instead of just from CD) so advanced features like this are par for the course. It's just important for people in this country to know that it is another feature and they shouldn't expect to automatically get it.
     
  16. siber

    siber Regular member

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    As usual, great and informative post, vurbal. I feel better now.
     
  17. vurbal

    vurbal Administrator Staff Member

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    Good :) I'd hate to see people people stop posting here because they get grief over different points of view. Correcting inaccurate facts (whether they come from a newbie or a senior member) is vital to the continued usefulness of the forums, and no one should be intimidated into not posting because a supposed expert disagrees with them. We all have something left to learn and we all have contributions to make (whether you know what your contribution is yet or not). Disagreement is a good thing as long as it doesn't get personal. It feeds discussion and ultimately leads to learning.
     
  18. Jerry746

    Jerry746 Senior member

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    Very good post Vurbal. I am involved in retail service and sales of major appliances and electronics in the USA. The powers that regulate the video standards here really don't want dual format equipment sold here. I don't know why but they want to maintain NTSC here. Either they quit watching what gets shipped here or they changed their outlook on the subject without much media coverage. Anyway, as I stated before if you do find equipment that can convert internally that great. I see no reason why the USA can't follow in the steps of other countries.

    Jerry
     
  19. jeffsreid

    jeffsreid Guest

    So then.....
    If I make a DVD of original material (a cabaret act in NYC) onto DVD- media, setting region to 0, original video is NTSC, it should play on either a region 1, American DVD player or a region 2 European set.

    Am I correct in assuming the video standard (NTSC or PAL) is not much at issue, as the DVD player will convert and send out the proper signal to the monitor?
     
  20. VLJ

    VLJ Member

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    The region code is an entirely different can of worms from the NTSC / PAL format. Region code is or can be specific to a DVD player. ie region1 plays region 1 disc. etc.
     

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