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Open poll: have KVCDs an acceptable quality with respect to VCDs?

Discussion in 'MPEG-1 and MPEG-2 encoding (AVI to DVD)' started by aldaco12, Nov 15, 2004.

  1. aldaco12

    aldaco12 Active member

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    I received some comments that KVCD movies lose quality with respect to normal VCDs. Can you report here any comment about your conversions, please? (of course, with TMPgenc set on 'Motion Search Precision = Highest Quality (very slow) during the use of those templates)

    Thanks to you all! Any comment is appreciated.
     
  2. aldaco12

    aldaco12 Active member

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    I begin: I saw that a KVCD (even if made in the best way TMPGenc can do) can be seen rather well on a DVD player, but if one looks at the TV screen very closely (or watches the final .MPG on his PC), the images have a sort of 'flickering'. Therefore my assumption, so far, is: to put a whole movie on a single CD is good, but a visible, even no great, loss in quality doesn't make it be worth of it.

    Conclusions:
    [bold]Standard VCDs are better of KVCDs, since everyone can afford to spend 0,80 - 1,00 $ to buy an extra CD-ROM (and a better quality of the movie). [/bold]

    Therefore, so far, the poll results are:


    We like KVCDs.............We don't like KVCDs
    =====================================
    0................................................1

    Overall = 1.
     
    Last edited: Nov 17, 2004
  3. katolee

    katolee Guest

    IMHO I say there not.

    Scenario: A dvd rip encoded vcd
    A dvd rip encoded KVCD

    VCD: Smooth playback without any frameskipping.
    KVCD: Some jerky video and minimal frameskipping.

    Audio VCD & KVCD: It's about the same to me
    (just by hearing and not tech standards)

    Keep in mind that the scale of the Con's are minor on KVCD on a 1-10 ranking i'd rank all the negative things around 2-3.

    Still I get tons of KVCD when the VCDS are around 3 cds or more.
     
  4. aldaco12

    aldaco12 Active member

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    So, concluding (I don't understand english perfectly): do you prefere to encode a movie in KVCD or VCD form?
     
    Last edited: Nov 16, 2004
  5. katolee

    katolee Guest

    It's a tough call.

    Overall for personal viewing i'd choose KVCD.
    The file size being the main issue
    i'm on a 2.4mb cable so a 700mb file really doesn't matter, but 3 or more 700mb files can sometimes gets annyoning.....

     
  6. aldaco12

    aldaco12 Active member

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    OK (but I've a fast connection, therefore for me "High Movie Quality" is superior to "Small Movie Size"). Therefore, so far, the poll results are:


    We like KVCDs.............We don't like KVCDs
    =====================================
    1................................................1

    Overall = 2.
     
    Last edited: Nov 17, 2004
  7. nownthen

    nownthen Regular member

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    The quality of a VCD and KVCD seem about the same. I really like being able to get more time out of a cd with the KVCD format.

     
  8. aldaco12

    aldaco12 Active member

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    If you watch the movie on a PC, you notice there are some differences, you notice them less, on a TV (e.g. only if you watch closely the screen). But if you judge such differences not too great with respect to a standard VCD, I'll add you, if you don't change your opinion, to the 'I like KVCDs' party:

    We like KVCDs.............We don't like KVCDs
    =====================================
    2................................................1

    Overall = 3.
     
  9. jazzzy

    jazzzy Member

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    I've burnt loads of KVCDs using a program called ACP which uses AVISYNTH, VIRTUALDUB, TMPGENC, BESWEET and MADPLAY. All you have to do is select the AVI file and it does everything for you. A 700Mb Divx film becomes a good quality 700Mb MPG. I've had no problems on DVD playback with flicker. Obviously the quality has gone down from the divx format but when I can put 5 films on a single dvd with better quality than vcd in my opinion I'm not complaining
     
  10. aldaco12

    aldaco12 Active member

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    OK. I assume this poll is going pro the KVCDs:

    We like KVCDs.............We don't like KVCDs
    ================================
    3................................................1

    Overall = 4.
     
    Last edited: Nov 24, 2004
  11. darkvader

    darkvader Member

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  12. aldaco12

    aldaco12 Active member

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    I see. Probably I'll have to change my idea:

    OK. I assume this poll is going pro the KVCDs:

    We like KVCDs.............We don't like KVCDs
    ================================
    4................................................1 (only me!!)

    Overall = 5.

     
  13. darkvader

    darkvader Member

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    Is there any specific reason you don't like their compression methods?
    I mean, if you look closely at any of those samples, there's not a single VCD on earth that can match that :)

    DV
     
  14. aldaco12

    aldaco12 Active member

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    Yes, but if I look closely to the SAME movie converted in VCD format and in KVCD format I notice some little differences.
     
  15. Mick69

    Mick69 Guest

    havent been here in a while but its good to see aldaco still doing the rounds on the vcd/svcd threads ;).

    anyways back to the topic at hand. if anyone thinks that the quality of kvcd is better than vcd they seriously need their eyes checked. the bitrate of a vcd is low enough, you still get artifacts and blockiness when you convert to this format(even from a dvd source), it cant be helped because of the low bitrate. now kvcd has an even lower bitrate(much lower) than a standard compliant vcd which in turn produces even more artifacts and macro-blocks, its a simple fact that the lower the bitrate when encoding the worse off the output quality will be. now if your on a tight budget and two/three cd-r's a movie cuts into the hip pocket a bit too much then i can understand why you'd choose kvcd, but at 25c a cd-r(maybe less) its not like you'd be going hungry at the expensive of a few cd-r's :/. theres an old saying though, "beauty is in the eye of the beholder", so if kvcd looks good enough for you well thats fair enough, but for me quality is everything, even though i dont think the quality of vcd is absolutely stunning, i still think vcd has far superior quality compared to kvcd. so thats a big |we dont like KVCDs| vote from me.
     
  16. aldaco12

    aldaco12 Active member

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    Ahh! Finally I'm not alone!!
    We like KVCDs.............We don't like KVCDs
    ================================
    4................................................2

    Overall = 6.

     
  17. neewbie

    neewbie Regular member

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    i dont like kvcds, there crap quality and hard to convert and encode. waste of time and download!
     
  18. aldaco12

    aldaco12 Active member

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    The 'group' (WE DON'T LIKE KVCDs) keeps growing....

    We like KVCDs.............We don't like KVCDs
    ================================
    4................................................3

    Overall = 7.
     
    Last edited: Aug 26, 2005
  19. Daggy-G

    Daggy-G Regular member

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    I'm in favor oF KVCD/KDVD!!
    Those who say kvcd sucks ARENT ENCODING THEM RIGHT!
    Kvcd is made to break away from the damn 352x240 resolution.
    You need to use the tutorial guides & Kwags Optimal Script.
    I can put a 2 hr movie on 1 KVCD @ 352x240 & it looks bad as a 2 cd vcd.
    I can put 1 2 hour movies onto 2 CDR @ 528x480 (mpeg1) & garanteed it will be DVD quality (only a lower resolution)u wont notice any blocks or anything, afterall vcd was made to be put onto 2 CDR's
    So in conclusion a 2 CDR vcd looks like crap, a 2 CDR KVCD looks almost identical to dvd EXCEPT lower resolotion
    For those users i recomend KDVD 6 hrs on 1 4.7 gb DVD+R @ 100% DVD quality, resolotion & compatability (as it is mpg2)
    see the screenshots on the bottom of the page?
    http://www.kvcd.net/portal/index.php
     
    Last edited: Nov 2, 2005
  20. aldaco12

    aldaco12 Active member

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    No, I don't see any screenshot (is this the 'page' or where?).
    can you post here the link to this tutorial, please?
    I must admit (and thanks to you for this!) that http://www.kvcd.new suggests about using a CQ value of 74 (http://www.kvcd.net/portal/faq.php?lng=en , Q-11) and [bold]on the templates that can be downloaded from the site its default CQ value is 60[/bold]! I hope that, with CQ=74 the KVCD Templates results are as good as they are said to be..

    Or, maybe there's another integration which can be done to TMPGenc Plus + the KVCD templates (I read about AviSynth scripts..) which can increase KVCD quality?

    Until no new result arrives (for example, from my tests using CQ=74 instead of the default value of CQ = 60), I can only update the 'poll' result:

    We like KVCDs.............We don't like KVCDs
    ================================
    5................................................3

    Overall = 8.
     
    Last edited: Oct 4, 2005

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