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Optimal IDE Arrangement - 2 HDD, DVD-Rom & DVD-RW

Discussion in 'DVDR' started by Timbot421, Mar 7, 2005.

  1. Timbot421

    Timbot421 Member

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    Hello All,

    I found a really good article through the forums about maximizing IDE arrangements, but I have run into an inconsistency when altering a Dell that I want to sort out.

    I am installing my DVR 109 and removing my CD-RW. I will also be adding a second HDD in the next week once a bracket arrives. My proposed configuration is:

    Primary IDE:

    Master = 40GB HDD (currently installed)
    Slave = 80GB HDD

    Secondary IDE:

    Master = DVD-RW
    Slave = DVD-ROM

    I will not be burning on-the-fly. My confusions arises over whether I should switch to "Cable Select" once I install 80 wire cables. I have seen articles encouraging the master-slave arrangement but I have read on this forum that Dell products need to be configured in "Cable Select." Which is the better arrangement?

    Thanks for you help.

    Timbot
     
  2. Nephilim

    Nephilim Moderator Staff Member

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    Your arrangement looks great. I'd recommend sticking with the Dell recommended Cable Select but if you run into problems you may want to give the old Master/Slave setup a shot :)
     
  3. bbmayo

    bbmayo Active member

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    I will try explain the difference between "master" and "slave"
    Despite the hierarchical-sounding names of "master" and "slave", the master drive does not have any special status compared to the slave one; they are really equals in most respects. The slave drive doesn't rely on the master drive for its operation or anything like that, despite the names (which are poorly-chosen--in the standards the master is usually just "drive 0" and the slave "drive 1"). The only practical difference between master and slave is that the PC considers the master "first" and the slave "second" in general terms. For example, DOS/Windows will assign drive letters to the master drive before the slave drive. If you have a master and slave on the primary IDE channel and each has only one regular, primary partition, the master will be "C:" and the slave "D:". This means that the master drive (on the primary channel) is the one that is booted, and not the slave.
    So you see there really isn't any difference, but us computer geeks have just been so used to the old way of doing thing's that the process of hooking up drives is kind of a habit. With the newer DMA/Ultra DMA out you are supposed to hook the master drive up to the end of the cable (black end) and the slave in the middle (gray end) where on the older PIo mode drives you would put the master on the middle and the slave on the end.
    Another note; If you are using DMA mode you really need to be using an 80 wire IDE cable (should have Blue, Gray, & Black connector) This is the standard for DMA so if you are using the older 40 wire cable this could be a problem also.
    OK I'm starting to babble now (tired) Anyway To use cable select you need a special cable, and these are of course non-standard, making them a special purchase. Also, many people don't understand cable select, nor do they realize it needs a special cable. If you set both drives to "CS" and then use them on a regular (non-cable-select) IDE cable, both drives will configure themselves as "master", causing a configuration conflict.

    So your configuration looks good as is and when you go to 80 wire (not pin) cable you will have to use master and slave. Cable select will no longer be an option. So crappy old Dell is still shipping computers with the old 40 wire cable's??
     
    Last edited: Mar 7, 2005
  4. Rotary

    Rotary Senior member

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    hi

    DELL with 40 wire cables, thats something to remember for users of AD! on speed issues!
     
  5. bbmayo

    bbmayo Active member

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    They probably do it like that so there incompitent computer builders can just throw the drives in the computer without having to change jumpers. It's to confusing for them to remember SL, CSL, and MA so they just teach them CSL.. LOL Then they better make sure there drives are in the right spot on the cable... So now which way is easier?? hmmmm.. I work on a lot of computers for a living and Dell is the second most brand we get here to fix (1st is CompaQ). I used to like Dell, but lately they have been just as bad as the rest at building them as cheap as possible..
     
  6. Timbot421

    Timbot421 Member

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    bbmayo,

    I was totally following your post up until the last paragraph. I think I need a little clarification.

    My understanding is that cable select cannot be run on standard 40 wire. Is it not the installation of 80 wire that makes Cable Select a possible option? I thought I would have to use master & slave until I put 80 wire in?

    Thanks

    Timbot
     
  7. Mort81

    Mort81 Senior member

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    bbmayo,

    I built my computer less than 2 months ago and both the IDE cables that were provided with my gigabyte mobo are black on all three connectors. Does this mean that they are only 40 wire cables? Should I replace it with a 80 wire if so? Both my dvdrw drives are in DMA mode and working fine although my master drive did switch to PIO once. Hdd's are SATA so IDE cables don't apply. Thankyou.
     
  8. Rotary

    Rotary Senior member

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    hi

    @ Mort81

    if you bought your mobo 2 months back they should be 99.9% 80 wire

    what does your dma say dma 2 /3/ 4 etc?
     
  9. Mort81

    Mort81 Senior member

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    Hi Rotary,

    Device 0 is ultra DMA mode 4
    Device 1 is ultra DMA mode 2

    I'm not having any problems but would like to know if the cables are 40 or 80 wire since all the connectors are black, preventive maintainance ya know. Thanks.
     
  10. bbmayo

    bbmayo Active member

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    OK,
    Timbot421,
    It is the opposite of what you stated. The newer 80 wire cable 99% of the time requires you to set your drives to slave or master. The older cables or the special cable needed for cable select actually has another wire in the cable going from (if I remember right) pin 38 on the IDE cable, but manufacturers quit making these cables some time ago. The newer 80 wire cables are still 40pin cables they just have an extra wire between each wire to shield each wire thus the 80 wire cable.

    @Mort81,
    The easiest way to tell is to simply count the wires. I could tell just by looking at it but I'm not there
    :) Not all 80 wire cables are color coded as I stated earlier, but most are, and if you just bought that board 2 month ago I am really surprised you didn't get at least one IDE cable that has a blue, gray, and black connector this is uncommon. All the Gigabyte boards I have installed have had that one IDE cable in them. Again the easiest way to be sure is to just count the wires. :)

    Your drives will run in those modes with the 40 wire cable it is just recommended and smarter choice to use 80 wire cable. You will see an increase in speed of your drive!
     
    Last edited: Mar 7, 2005
  11. Mort81

    Mort81 Senior member

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    Both the IDE cables look identicle and as far as I can tell they are 40 wire. Do you recommend I replace it with a 80 wire? Also since my hdd's are SATA, I have an open IDE jack on my mobo, could I or should I run a cable with only 1 connector on each end from my mobo to each drive or does it matter? Thanks, I'm still learning about pc configuration as you can tell.

    I used to be a diesel mechanic but got hurt and disabled and can no longer work although I have been exposed to the electronics industry with the arise of electronic fuel injection on newer diesel engines and other electrical systems pertaining to trucks and automotive. My dad was a radar technition in the marine core and repaired tv's as well. I'm learning about pc's
     
  12. Timbot421

    Timbot421 Member

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    Thanks bbmayo,

    So essentially, the 80 wire cable will help achieve the maximum write speed as suggested by Pioneer for my DVR 109, but I should use the master-slave configuration? Works for me - I just wanted to check it out before I do it.

    Thanks very much for your help. It is appreciated.

    Timbot
     
  13. bbmayo

    bbmayo Active member

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    @Mort81,
    You would notice an increase in performance and speed a little with the addition of an 80 wire cable. You hard drive is running on SATA and this is great the best way to go! Some would say to put each drive on a seperate IDE cable, but if you read my earlier post you would see that this really wouldnt help anything other than cluttering your PC up with more Cables..
     
    Last edited: Mar 7, 2005
  14. bbmayo

    bbmayo Active member

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    Timbot421,
    Yes the original post you submitted is in my opinion the way to go!! (with 80 wire cable)
     
  15. swervin

    swervin Regular member

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    I just wanted to clarify something. Dell doesn't install 40 wire cables for the ide channels. Or at least they didn't anyway. I have a Dimension 8200 I've had for a few years now. It came with 80 wire cables for both channels.

    Also, I've had a lot of different computers in my day. Even built a couple myself. By far, the 8200 has been the most reliable one I've had. To each his own I guess.

    Mike
     
  16. Mort81

    Mort81 Senior member

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    Thanks bb, I appreciate your time and assistance.
    One more question, if I use a seperate cable for each drive useing both IDE jacks on my mobo, would I still set 1 drive as master and 1 as slave or both as master since they would be on seperate IDE channels?
     
  17. Mort81

    Mort81 Senior member

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    Ok I lied, another question. Are 80 wire ribbon cables recommended over round shielded cables cables?
     
    Last edited: Mar 7, 2005
  18. Mort81

    Mort81 Senior member

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  19. bbmayo

    bbmayo Active member

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    Mort81,
    It would depend on how the jumpers were set on the drives and where you put them on the cable. If both set to Master and at the end of the cable then both would be Master. One would be Primary on one channel while the other would be primary on the other channel. You could say one drive would be Master on the primary channel (IDE 0) and one would be master on the secondary channel (IDE 1).
    As far as the round cable's go if they are 80 wire cable's then they would be fine. The round ones simply allow for better air circulation in your case. :)
     
  20. Mort81

    Mort81 Senior member

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    Thanks bb,

    It doesn't say anything about being 80 wire on the round cable but they are sheilded with woven wire mesh. Here's a look. http://www.xoxide.com/sisichideca.html
    I've also checked out Newegg.

    I like the round cables but am hesitant since they may not perform any better than the 40 wire ribbon cable I have now, defeating the purpose.
     

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