1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.

PAL to NTSC

Discussion in 'DVD±R for advanced users' started by zanth, Jun 1, 2002.

  1. zanth

    zanth Member

    Joined:
    Jun 1, 2002
    Messages:
    7
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    11
    How can a person convert VOB files to NTSC from a PAL DVD? I have it all ripped and stuff... I'd convert to MPEG-2 then back to VOB, but I don't want to really go through all the hassle messing with the AC-3 sound, ya know? thanks!
     
  2. dRD

    dRD I hate titles Staff Member

    Joined:
    Jun 10, 1999
    Messages:
    8,650
    Likes Received:
    118
    Trophy Points:
    143
    Well, the sound is definately the biggest issue in here -- PAL movies are actually in 24fps already, but they're played back few percent faster (yes, in Europe we watch movies and TV series in ffwd always :). The problem is that audio has already been shortened to match PAL fps and you would need to change audio's length accordingly.
     
  3. zanth

    zanth Member

    Joined:
    Jun 1, 2002
    Messages:
    7
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    11
    I always thought the main difference was the lines of resolution? That is quite interesting though. :) So basically a quick conversion is out, how can I do this and keep my AC-3 sound?
     
  4. dRD

    dRD I hate titles Staff Member

    Joined:
    Jun 10, 1999
    Messages:
    8,650
    Likes Received:
    118
    Trophy Points:
    143
    Well, the difference is in resolution (720x480 NTSC, 720x576 PAL and with framerate; 23.97fps or 29.97fps NTSC, 25.00fps PAL).

    And can't really help you now, but I can try to find out -- never ever done any conversion between formats trying to maintain the original quality. I basically count on my DVD player to do the conversion, as most of the Euro DVD player support natively NTSC playback on PAL TV anyway.
     
  5. zanth

    zanth Member

    Joined:
    Jun 1, 2002
    Messages:
    7
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    11
    Yeah, it is kinda of unfortunate for us in the US where TVs that support PAL playback are far and few between. I think its unfair that TVs in Europe and in Australia all seem to play PAL, NTSC and SECAM. I feel cheated. ;)
     
  6. dRD

    dRD I hate titles Staff Member

    Joined:
    Jun 10, 1999
    Messages:
    8,650
    Likes Received:
    118
    Trophy Points:
    143
    Hey, you're an American. Traditionally you don't have to give a s*it about rest of the world ;-) Or at least that's what some companies in States think :)

    But for framerate changing issue, I would suggest that you try to find more info from http://vcdhelp.com or from http://doom9.net -- they might, just MIGHT, have some stuff that will help you converting the DVD. Keep us posted if you find anything.
     
  7. zanth

    zanth Member

    Joined:
    Jun 1, 2002
    Messages:
    7
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    11
    Well, I wouldn't give a crap about the rest if the US has as cool stuff as the rest of the world... bette rmusic, better movies, etc... just can't get the coolest stuff here, so I have to care. ;)

    I'll let ya know if I can find anything tho. :)
     
  8. jnihil

    jnihil Moderator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Dec 23, 2001
    Messages:
    869
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    26
    I do a lot of PAL->NTSC conversions, but I use the Canopus software converter:

    http://www.canopuscorp.com/ppt_dvformatconverter.htm

    which does the conversion very nicely if you the Canopus DV codec. B&H in NYC will sell you one for $400. I believe the new Canopus converter does the conversion for non-Canopus DV codec and also does a bunch more stuff:

    http://www.canopuscorp.com/ppm_procoder.htm

    I haven't tried this product myself. It's quite new. I used to do this via Adobe AfterEffects but it's real s..l..o..w..

    Worthwhile if you do the conversion a lot. Will convert at half speed of the original video using a 1Ghz P3, and the result is dandy.

    Apparently Premiere also does the frame-rate conversion but does not resolve the excess lines. Perhaps someone has a way around this.
     
  9. zanth

    zanth Member

    Joined:
    Jun 1, 2002
    Messages:
    7
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    11
    I just looked through that, but it doesn't seem to allow keeping the AC-3 Audio.. it says it keeps just one Stereo Audio stream.... That's my biggest deal here is keeping AC-3 Audio. Otherwise it's easy enough to just convert my DVD to DiVX and then pop it straight back to VOBs in NTSC, but my AC-3 will be reduced to Stereo....
     
  10. jnihil

    jnihil Moderator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Dec 23, 2001
    Messages:
    869
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    26
    You can treat the audio separately since they are the same for PAL and NTSC. You can render/remux the converted video and the original AC3 audio at the end.
     
  11. zanth

    zanth Member

    Joined:
    Jun 1, 2002
    Messages:
    7
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    11
    Ah, very interesting. Is there possibly a FAQ on how to do this and keep the AC-3? I'm not quite sure on the programs/process to do such a thing with the AC-3 intact....
     
  12. dRD

    dRD I hate titles Staff Member

    Joined:
    Jun 10, 1999
    Messages:
    8,650
    Likes Received:
    118
    Trophy Points:
    143
    jnihil: Actually I think that the whole difference is with the audio -- video is the same, just changed the fps to play it back faster in PAL countries, but the audio doesn't have any fps flags and has to be shortened for PAL countries. I can be wrong, as usual :)
     
  13. jnihil

    jnihil Moderator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Dec 23, 2001
    Messages:
    869
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    26
    I know what you're trying to say dRD, indeed the PAL DVD are faster than NTSC because they simply do a 25/24 fps playback (4% faster) when making PAL DVDs, which means that by comparison the PAL DVDs play marginally faster than the NTSC DVDs. This is not an issue since the PAL video is also 4% faster.

    However, I'm not quite sure why you say that the video is the same. The resolution is different and the frame-rate is also different, which is where all the pain is. If you render an NTSC video to PAL without fiddling with the frames, you'll endup with a PAL video that is 29.97/25=1.2 times longer than the audio and the picture would look rather stretched. These clever converters fill-in/drop frames occasionally and also crop/stretch the video depending on the direction of the conversion.

    Like zanth says, it would be nice if there was an FAQ on this subject... I'll have a look around. Pls post the link here should anyone find one.
     
  14. dRD

    dRD I hate titles Staff Member

    Joined:
    Jun 10, 1999
    Messages:
    8,650
    Likes Received:
    118
    Trophy Points:
    143
    Yep, I know that, but I meant that the video is the same as it would be in FILM version (basically it _is_ 24fps, just added a header info that says "play this stuff with 25fps instead of 24fps"). Sure, the resolution, interlacing, etcetcetc is done in different way, but that's not my issue now.

    My "logical" thinking:

    Movie's length is 14,400 frames (ok, LOL, but to ease things :).

    Let's calculate the _real_ length in minutes/secs:
    14,400/24 == 600sec == 10mins 00secs

    So, this file obviously has an audio track which is exactly 10mins long.

    Now, the PAL'd version:
    14,400/25 == 576sec == 9mins 46secs

    And obviously this HAS TO have an audio track with same length -> studios master the audio to make it play "faster" in PAL movies as audio formats don't have "framerate" flags, but the length is the only thing that matters and it has to match with the length of the video to maintain sync.

    So, simply changing the framerate back to 24fps which is NTSC compatible, would create a file with video of 10mins 0secs and audio of 9mins and 46secs.

    ...after you solve how to overcome that, THEN you can start thinking how in the heck you're going to squeeze the 720x576 video into 720x480 without re-encoding..
     
    Last edited: Jun 4, 2002
  15. jnihil

    jnihil Moderator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Dec 23, 2001
    Messages:
    869
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    26
  16. zanth

    zanth Member

    Joined:
    Jun 1, 2002
    Messages:
    7
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    11
    Man, it still seems, with altering the audio length in Cool Edit, you'll lose your AC-3, wouldn't you? That's the whole reason I care about converting this DVD.... I can listen to it in my stereo in AC-3, I can watch on my TV via my PC.... but no AC-3 from thre 'puter... *sigh*
     
  17. NBMZ28

    NBMZ28 Guest

    Hey,
    I'm working on a PAL to NTSC project as well. One thing you can do is use TMEPeg to
    convert the PAL to NTSC and create your .m2v file. Once you go into IFOedit, you can then open your original ripped VTS_01_1.ifo file, go to IFO extras, check off the REMUX button, and then in the bottom, insert your M2V file.

    You will retain your AC3 audio this way. I'm having some issues with the Video stutter that I'm trying to resolve, so try and use a DVD-RW...

    Let me know,

    D
     
  18. NBMZ28

    NBMZ28 Guest

    Ok, just finished the project, and didn't work according to plan. ;-)

    The only way I could actually pull this puppy off is by re-encoding PAL-NTSC via TEMPeg, and then at that point, go into DVD-Wise and multiplex the AC3 audio track as well as the resultant video that was just encoded. This will create a huge 4GB VOB file that will have your new creation, AC3 audio and video together. (One problem with this approach is that the audio stream will change to 0x80. This is fine if your original IFO files from the DVD spec this stream, but if they are pointing to a different direction, you will have to use VOBrator to change the audio stream to 0x81.)

    When you get into IFOedit .91, open up the original VTS_01_1.IFO file, go to VOB extras, and then strip the extras, but keep the stream that you want to retain. As well, keep the VOB file split at 1GB, and recreate the VIDEO_TS and the VTS_01_1.ifo files as well. Dump into a new directory, let that finish, exit program, re-enter, get VTS pointers, and you should be able to play that video!

    Now, the project played properly, but as someone has mentioned, before, the audio will fall out of sync by the time the end of the video comes...but you will get yer AC3! ;-)

    I will most likely never do this again, but will do this for vids that are over the 5GB limit that are NTSC only.

    Good luck

    *whew!*

    Daniel

     

Share This Page