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PAL to NTSC?

Discussion in 'MPEG-1 and MPEG-2 encoding (AVI to DVD)' started by m6a, Mar 31, 2005.

  1. m6a

    m6a Member

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    i searched the forums and read a bunch on it already, but didnt get an exact answer and if i missed it i apologize.
    i am going to convert a pal.avi to NTSC using tmpgenc and from what i read it said that this would make it look jumpy in the action scenes. is this true and how bad is it?

    i also read that avisynth was the best program to do this conversion with but nobody seemed to be able to come up with a link on how to do it. does anybody have link or could somebody post or email me instructions? i would forever be in your debt.

    thanks
     
  2. aldaco12

    aldaco12 Active member

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    It's not lazyness, but there's much stuff in http://www.afterdawn.com/guides/, expecially man tutorials on TMPGenc.
    My opinion is that a good-setting conversion (TMPGenc's Motion search precision = Very High Quality (very slow)doesn't add any problem in the movie.
    AVISynth I never tried, I'm too much satisfied of TMPGenc Plus...
     
  3. rebootjim

    rebootjim Active member

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    The best way I have found to do PAL to NTSC, is to use any good standalone encoder (I much prefer Canopus Procoder Express, as it's easily 4x faster than tmpgenc), and encode from the PAL 25fps to NTSC 23.976fps using pulldown.
    This very slight framerate conversion doesn't introduce (as much of) the jerkiness that you would get from a 25fps PAL to 29.97fps NTSC.
    You can do the same thing in tmpgenc, but it will take much longer.
     
  4. m6a

    m6a Member

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    i went ahead and did the conversion with tmpgenc plus last night and from the parts of the movie i looked at it seemed to have done a good job. i used the very slow/high quality option on motion search and 2 pass vbr. i have not yet tried Canopus Procoder, but i have read alot of peoles posts that preffered it.

    the reason i asked about avisynth is because i read a few things about that being the best way to do it.

    thanks for your help!
     
    Last edited: Apr 1, 2005
  5. Minion

    Minion Senior member

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    Yes, the Best Way to convert Pal to NTSC is to Slow the 25fps down to 23.976fps and then add 2:3 Pulldown to make it 29.976fps...

    You then have to stretch the audio to the exact same length as the NTSC Video useing an audio editor Like "Goldwave"...

    If your Source File is an AVI file then you can use AVISynth to Slow the Video and Audio down to 23.976fps and Frameserve to your Encoder...

    AVISynth is Fairly complicated to use because it uses a Scripting Language to Implement it"s Functions which for most poeple is Over there head but the other Methods mentioned in this Thread will Work fine for most poeple especially useing the Procoder version as it is one of the Only Good Quality encoder that does good Frame Rate conversions.....

    Cheers
     
  6. m6a

    m6a Member

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    i have no idead how to use avisynth although i wish i did.

    the files i had were mpeg2 once i did the pal to ntsc conversion how would i stretch the audio with goldwave? is there a tutorial anywhere?
     
  7. rebootjim

    rebootjim Active member

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    Why do you want to stretch the audio?
    Audio files do not use "fps" like video does.
     
  8. Minion

    Minion Senior member

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    You would only need to Stretch the audio if you were doing the Pal to NTSC Frame Rate conversion by slowing down the Pal 25fps to NTSC 23.976fps..

    When you do this Method of Pal to NTSC Conversion the Video becomes 4% Longer than it was when in Pal format because the Ammount of Frames doesn"t change but the Frame rate does...

    You can do the Slow down Frame Rate conversion method useing "Tmpgenc Pluss" and Goldwave for the audio without useing AVISynth....

    If you want to Do this Form of Frame rate Conversion useing Tmpgenc you Basicly set it up like you were going to encode it to NTSC but you set the "Encode Mode" to "3:2 Pulldown when Playback" and set the "Frame rate" to "23.976fps(Internaly 29.976fps)" ..

    Then go to the "Advanced" settings and at the Very bottom select the "Do Not Frame rate Conversion" setting...
    What this setting does is it makes it so Tmpgenc doesn"t drop 1.03 frames per second but it also makes the Video Longer than the audio....

    After you have encoded to a DVD Compliant Mpeg-2 Video Only file useing those settings you have to Find out the exact length of the Video File..

    What I use is "Virtual-Dub-Mpeg-2" and Load the Mpeg-2 Video file into it and then go to "file" to "File Inforomatio" and it will list the exact Length of the Video file which you should Write Down....

    Now you Load your Audio file into "Goldwave" and go to "Effect" to "Time Warp" and at the Top select the "Length" option and then Type in the Exact length of the Video which you wrote down and then click "OK" at the Bottom..

    Now go to "file" to "Save as" and save it as a 48000hz Wav audio file....

    Now you will have a wav audio file and a Mpeg-2 Video file that will be in perfect sync and that will play back perfectly...

    You should encode the Wav audio file to either "Mpeg-1 layer 2" audio or to "Dolby AC3" audio and then you just author the Audio and Video file to DVD useing your DVD authoring program, preferably one that will accept seperate audio and Video files like DVDLab or Tmpgenc DVD Author and there are others.....

    As you can see this Method has a Little more to It but it works very well and doesn"t produce any artifacts that can occur with some encoders when doing Frame rate conversions....

    Cheers
     
  9. m6a

    m6a Member

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    awsome thanks!!!
    i did the conversion with tpmgenc last night(pal to NTSC-29.976) and it actually came out pretty darn good.i didnt even use the 3:2 pulldown method i just went straight to 29.976 and it worked. i am new to all this pal to ntsc conversion stuff and i am greatful for your help. i am going to try the method you described above tomorrow.

    ~thanks
     
    Last edited: Apr 2, 2005
  10. Minion

    Minion Senior member

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    When Doing that Type of Frame Rate conversion with Tmpgenc going straight to 29.976fps from 25fps what happens is Tmpgenc just duplicates every 5 th Frame to make up the extra 5 fromes needed for going from 25fps to 29.976fps....

    This method Can cause artifacts in High motion scenes because you are viewing Duplicate frames which can give a Jumpy sort of Appearance especially when there is a Lot of Motion.....

    Cheers
     
  11. m6a

    m6a Member

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    thanks for your help. i am going to use your method today. ;)
     
  12. m6a

    m6a Member

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    hey minion what version of goldwave are you using? im using v5.10. what version is the best for this kinf of thing?

    i am having trouble getting my audio and video to sync even though i am putting in the exact time(length). what could be the problem?
     
  13. Minion

    Minion Senior member

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    I use Goldwave 5.10...Well i don"t know what could be the problem as as I rarely if ever do it this way (I use AVISynth to do the Time stretching usually)

    Maybe whatever you are useing to find out the Length is Not giveing you the Correct Length??

    Maybe you should Just do it the other way that you had success with...
     
  14. m6a

    m6a Member

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    i used vitrtualdub mpeg2 like you said.

    i loaded the video clip in dvdlab instead today and got the length from it and used GldWve to stretch the time to that length. i hope it works this time...

    i will let you know.
     
    Last edited: Apr 5, 2005
  15. rebootjim

    rebootjim Active member

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    If you're going to author in dvdlab, here's a much easier way to do audio.
    Open the original video in virtualdubmod.
    Select Streams, stream list.
    Right click the audio track, and select Full Processing.
    Click File, save .wav
    Get Ffmpeggui, and open the .wav
    Transcode to 224kbps 48khz AC3.
    Encode only the video in whatever encoder.
    Load the ac3 and the video into dvdlab.
    No stretching, no Goldwave, no figuring out time differences.
     
  16. m6a

    m6a Member

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    does this work even if i change the frame rate from 25fps to 23.976fps?
     
  17. rebootjim

    rebootjim Active member

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    Audio doesn't care what your video framerate is.
    The encoded video should be the same running time as the original, all you've done, is change it's aspect and framerate, not length.
    Take the original audio, make it AC3, then import with your newly encoded video, and it should sync up.
    It does for me, with about a 99% success rate. (there's always one that will piss you off, and not work) ;)
     
  18. Minion

    Minion Senior member

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    Actually in this Case he was Changeing the Length of the Video because he was useing the SlowDown Method..

    If for instance he has a File that has 1000 frames Playing at 25fps and he encoded it useing the Slowdown method to 23.976fps then the 23.976fps file will have a different length than the 25fps file because the ammount of Frames haven"t Changed but the Playback speed has Changed...

    Cheers
     
  19. m6a

    m6a Member

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    what method should i use? should i use the slow down method or just use virtualdub to save .wav and change the frame rate to 23.976? or 29.976?? or what?
     
  20. Minion

    Minion Senior member

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    I suggest you just encode the Pal 25fps File to NTSC useing the "23.976fps 3:2 Pulldown NTSC" Frame Rate setting(That is if your Pal File is Progressive)...

    The Slow down Method Can be a Little Tricky and this method will produce simular results so you might as well do it this way...

    Cheers
     

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