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Parts of Picture Move Independently

Discussion in 'Televisions' started by larrymcg, Oct 21, 2011.

  1. larrymcg

    larrymcg Member

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    I have a Samsung 32" LCD HD TV (LN-32C540), Samsung Blu-Ray player (BD-C5500C), Comcast HD PVR - all connections are HDMI running through a Pioneer VSX-1020 receiver. Over the last few months I have noticed that various parts of the picture can move independently. For example, a slowly moving face (e.g., turning left and right to say NO) can have the eyebrows moving together but somewhat later than when the other parts of the face move. Or maybe parts of the wall in the background move independently when the camera is moving about slowly. It's creepy.

    1. I'm wondering what that symptom might be called?
    2. Is it a common problem?
    3. Known way to make it go away?

    Some other info:
    a. This problem is really bad on a TV program called Breaking Bad. I don't think I've seen it on other shows.
    b. I have seen this problem on a couple of movies on DVDs (not blu-ray) played on the blu-ray player. But quite rare.
    c. I saved one Breaking Bad episode on the PVR and played it back repeatedly. It always had the same problems in the same places.
    d. I connected the PVR directly to the TV using the SD RF antenna connection (so no HDMI and no receiver involved) and the saved Breaking Bad episode exhibited the same symptoms.

    Certainly this is a problem with the TV. Right?

    --Larry
     
  2. ps355528

    ps355528 Regular member

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    sounds more like a problem with the source.. if the same episode is broken in the same ways at the same places regardless of the source (broadcast or your recording) it's likely that it was broadcast that way.. this kind of broken up display garbage is usually caused by noise on the power supplies in the house.. freezer or heaters coming on or off causing big emp's.
     
  3. larrymcg

    larrymcg Member

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    There could be some stuff in the broadcast but I see it from time to time in DVD movies too. And if I go back and replay the DVD segment the symptoms are there every time. So that would indicate that the video on the DVD has the issues in it.

    Also, the symptoms are not momentary - they can go on for as long as a minute (I'm guessing - I've never timed them). And be in many places in the program.

    I'm not sure we ever see a TV program broadcast directly. We have no antenna so all the TV shows are viewed through the Comcast PVR. I think we always watch Breaking Bad as a delayed PVR recording but that's true for almost all the TV shows we watch.

    So unless there is some strange thing that affects both TV broadcasts and DVDs, then it still seems like the TV has the issue.

    --Larry
     
  4. ps355528

    ps355528 Regular member

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    The only way to isolate this (too many other variables) is to try a different tv.. I get a lot of breakup and weird things going on where I live due to being right next to the lift motors.

    A good way to test for a lot of RFI is any old am radio tuned off station.. watch tv and listen to radio.. big crackles when you get the strange things happening?

    Only other thing you can do unless you are a skilled electronics engineer is to check by substitution all cables and connectors.. I wouldn't try opening it up unless you are very very sure you will be able to get it back together, and a serious warning.. 90% of engineers won't even look at something once somebody else has had the back off (and we can tell) as a repair. If it's not big rfi flying around then it's likely to be some fault in the digital decoder circuitry, possibly a bad connection (very likely) or component failure (less likely but caps still fail and one on a power rail can cause all kinds of weird problems). I have wasted days on these kinds of faults without diagrams and honestly.. when I totted up the charge per hour for my time it was cheaper to sling it out and buy another. NOT the way we should be running our planet but thats modern economics for you. If I lived round the corner I could pop round and have a look, but as I don't you will need an expert if it's not just problems with the cables.. If you can't solder to 100% skill level on dual sided and surface mount electronics and detect/remedy circuit faults "on the fly" by assimilation (they never publish repair info these days) of IC pinouts and digital signal states........ says it all. (remember.. a cap breaking down or bad connection on a component leg can have exactly the same effect as big power spikes on the display, and may be in a part of the set you might think are completely unconnected with anything to do with decoder or signals). Minimum tools?.. eyes.. soldering iron (I have 3.. 40 watt for big metal, 25 watt for power components/sockets etc and 16 watt with needle point tip for circuit boards .. I do component level repairs on laptops these days) .. a good digital multimeter.. a pretty good idea of how modern electronics works.. access to schematics or at least ic pinouts (data sheets are online).. a cmos data probe (meter will do) and a way to test/inject logic level signals.. and a lot of luck.

    It's a strange one, but I think digital is pretty rubbish, it's almost impossible to track down this kind of fault without having some serious test gear, the schematics and my level of electronics knowhow. If it's the tv then it could be any of a multitude of things going wrong inside. TV's have become "throw away" over the last 20 years and this modern junk is honestly only good for the warranty period and a little more, unlike my 18 year old Tatung crt thing. AS you can tell it';s not a simple "do this" or "replace that".. because if it's internal then ?????????? could be a multitude of things.. My first point of attack would be check the soldering on all the in/out sockets then the main power rail followed by the backlight inverters (high voltage/high curent).. strange but true, then digging deeper into the various power rails until something doesn't seem right.
     
  5. larrymcg

    larrymcg Member

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    Well, er.... I think you can be assured that I won't be attempting any special testing or board level fixes!
    A test with another TV could be possible but first I need to find a recording where the issue can be seen on demand. We have only one other TV in the house and it is a pretty old 10" LCD (you can guess it's age by the price - on sale at $700).

    I saw a post where someone claimed that there were some bad artifacts from using the "Dynamic" picture setting. I had, in fact, changed the Samsung to use the Dynamic setting a few weeks earlier. So, I have now changed the setting back to normal. Maybe it will have an effect. I haven't seen the issue recently but Breaking Bad is between seasons.

    I'm also skeptical about transients causing the problem. In the case of the DVD, I could back up the video and play the scene over and over always with the same result. That kind of rules out transients.

    In one of my tests I connected the PVR to the TV via a coax using the RF connection. That eliminated the HDMI cables and also the Receiver. That result points to the TV or to the recording on the PVR.

    --Larry


    --Larry
     

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