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Poor quality on dvds bigger than 7.5g

Discussion in 'Copy DVD to DVDR' started by frag2, Aug 8, 2004.

  1. frag2

    frag2 Member

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    Hello.
    Ive read/searched the forums to find a good solution to encoding big files. I use DVDshrink for now but the only way i can get good results is by reauthoring. Plus, there are some points with heavy pixelation.
    Does anyone know a very good encoder they can recommend for files this big? im encodinga music concert so the file is always big. The only things i usually remove are the making of's featurettes. Plus, i would like to keep the menu function if possible.

    Thanks
     
  2. Sophocles

    Sophocles Senior member

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    frag2

    This could have been my post only a few months ago because I began asking the exact same question. Now I can get incredible results with files that are even greater than 8 gigs and all I remove are the unwanted audio tracks.

    I started this thread to try and answer that question.

    http://forums.afterdawn.com/thread_view.cfm/88038

    You can read it if you choose or I can tell you the conclusion that we all came to.

    DVD Rebuilder and Cinema Craft Encoder Basic are the best there is. It sounds tough but it really isn’t. I did LOR III and Lawrence of Arabia (all 227 minutes) with no visual picture loss. Then I started this thread for beginners.

    http://forums.afterdawn.com/thread_view.cfm/92614

    If you’re interested then here’s a link to the AD guide and all of us and its author (Vurbal) are prepared to answer your questions and on occasion jdobbs the author of DVD Rebuilder also joins and answers questions.

    Go here for the guide.

    http://www.afterdawn.com/guides/archive/dvd_rebuilder_tutorial.cfm



    _
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    Once you eliminate the impossible, whatever remains, no matter how improbable, must be the truth." Sherlock Holmes (by Sir Arthur Conan Doyle, 1859-1930)[/small]
     
    Last edited: Aug 8, 2004
  3. frag2

    frag2 Member

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    The dvd im encoding has only 1 audio track (japanese) and i cant really remove anything other than the omake (making of featurette).
    I dont really understand how to use cce sp. is there an even more easier way to set it up. like can somebody post pictures of a step by step process, please?

    sorry if im asking too much. im kinda new to the video encoding stuff because ive been only using dvd shrink.
     
  4. vurbal

    vurbal Administrator Staff Member

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    You're not likely to find any method that requires less setup (or less studying ahead of time) than DVD-RB. If you look at the bottom link Sophocles posted, you'll find very simple instructions for setting up DVD-RB. It's oriented toward using CCE Basic, but it can be easily modified to use CCE SP. If you have a trial version, you need to use a program called ECLCCE. Without it, the trial version doesn't have the command line support required for pretty much any of the programs that automate encoding for you. jdobbs has put up a download at this link: http://media.fastclick.net/w/get.me...home.t-online.de/home/340044300675/eclcce.zip

    To use ECLCCE you should start by unzipping all the files to the directory CCE SP is installed in. Then run ECLCCE.exe and you'll be prompted to select the CCE executeable. Select cctsp.exe and click OK. CCE should open. Close CCE and run ECLCCE.exe again to make sure it's set up correctly. Now, instead of running CCE directly, you'll run ECLCCE.exe and it will control CCE for you.

    Once you have this all set up you can set DVD-RB to use CCE SP. On the Options menu, go to CCE Options and make sure CCE SP 2.66+ is checked. Still on the Options menu, select Setup. This will bring up the screen where you tell DVD-RB where CCE (among other things) is located. To the right of where it says Path to CCE SP (New) you should see a button with a folder icon on it. Click that button and browse to the location of ECLCCE.exe and select it. Make sure you don't set this to the actual CCE executeable (cctsp.exe) or it won't work.

    Follow the rest of the guide to the letter and you should be ready to backup a DVD in half an hour or less.
     
  5. frag2

    frag2 Member

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    cool. thanks a bunch. i will try this out. so basically, after doing what you told me with eclcce, i just follow the steps in the cce basic guide but instead of redirecting to cctsp.exe, i redirect it to eclcce?

    thanks sophocles and vurbul. i really appreciated the help.

    btw, what are the chances of a good quality encode because, like i said, im encoding a music concert with only 1 audio language to select. the main video file + audio (not include extras + menu) is about 7gigs.
     
    Last edited: Aug 9, 2004
  6. Sophocles

    Sophocles Senior member

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    frag2

    The chance of getting a good encode are great once you get it up and running. The version of CCE SP will leave a water mark on your backup but if you like it you can purchase CCE Basic for $58, a very good inverstment.
     
  7. jdobbs

    jdobbs Regular member

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    It can depend on the audio track. If it is LPCM, an uncompressed digital representation that is sometimes used on music videos, it can take up a LOT of space and severely limit what's left for video. For example, if you had 16 bit LPCM, sampled at 48Khz, with 5 channels for 2 hours, the audio could be close to 3.5GB alone. As good as CCE is -- it can't make two hours of video fit in what remains on a DVD-5.

    Some people like to strip the LPCM to a WAV file, use SoftEncode to reencode to AC3, and reintegrate into the stream in order to fix this. It's really complicated, takes a long time, and frankly in these situations I'm personally inclined to just buy a backup if I need one.

    The key is to look in the Audio window in DVD-RB and see if you have an alternative to an LPCM track already. Then it's easy...
     
    Last edited: Aug 10, 2004
  8. vurbal

    vurbal Administrator Staff Member

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    I personally don't recommend getting rid of the LPCM audio since it should be higher quality than any other type of audio that might be on the disc. I do, however, agree with jdobbs that you're going to have some problems getting a high quality encode if you keep it. As long as you're only going to be watching it on a relatively small screen (35" or smaller) you might want to try resizing to Half D1. This gives you about twice as many bits per pixel as keeping full resolution, helping to avoid encoding artifacts. You could also try filtering with AviSynth, but with the amount of compression that's probably required, the benefits to this are debatable to say the least. At the very least I'd recommend making sure you remove any other audio streams that are on the disc to give you as much "free" (ie not from compression) size reduction as possible.

    Without seeing the contents of the disc, and how much compression the video needs, it's hard to give you any concrete answers. In the end, your best bet is to try it for yourself and see what the results look like. If you wanted to do some testing without waiting for the entire process to finish you could let DVD-RB get done running the first couple of segments through CCE and then stop the process and look at the M2V files.

    To resize your movie to half D1, on the Options menu to to AVS Options, then Advanced (Expert) Options, and then to Resize To Half D1 and select any titles you want resized. You can only resize titles that start out 50MB or bigger since others won't be encoded.
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    DVD Rebuilder Guides: http://www.afterdawn.com/guides/archive/dvd_rebuilder_tutorial.cfm http://www.afterdawn.com/guides/archive/dvd_rebuilder_tutorial_advanced.cfm[/small]
     
    Last edited: Aug 10, 2004
  9. frag2

    frag2 Member

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    i think its lpcm (linear pcm stereo?) but i know there is no 5.1 audio. the audio i believe is about 1.7-2gigs and total (with video included) is about 6.5-7 gigs but i may be wrong. and the video is slightly more than 2 hours (about 140 mins).

    ill give it a try and let you know how it went.

    thanks.
     
    Last edited: Aug 10, 2004
  10. jdobbs

    jdobbs Regular member

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    If it's 1.7-2.0GB it's probably just stereo (with possibly Dolby surround encoding). If it's 2GB for the audio that only leaves 2.4GB for the video. For 140 minutes that would be (rounding):

    2,400,000,000 bytes
    19,200,000,000 bits
    Divided by 140 minutes = 137,142,857
    Divided by 60 seconds = 2,285,714 avg bits per second

    So you'll have to decide whether the picture is sufficient at 2.3Mbs. If it isn't a lot of constant changing (flashes etc), it can conceivably be done decently. 1/2 D1 is an option if you aren't using a big screen for playback.
     
  11. Sophocles

    Sophocles Senior member

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    I would think some adjustment to the audio stream would be most logical if possible although perhaps a little more difficult. The only time I ran into a video/audio ratio like that (PCM) was with the Beatles Anthology which I did using DVD2one 1.13. The sound survived in tack but the video suffered artifacts, not so much that it wasn’t a keeper but annoying nonetheless. I’m betting that if I do it over again using DVD-RB/CCE Basic none of the artifacts immediately be visible but the sound would remain clean. The only other choice is to split the movie to two discs.
     
  12. frag2

    frag2 Member

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    The video is actually about 5.8gigs while the audio is 1.3gigs (all rounded figures).
     
  13. jdobbs

    jdobbs Regular member

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    That should give you plenty of room for decent video with DVD-RB...
     

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