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recommendation about compression

Discussion in 'DVDR' started by junkbeast, Oct 26, 2004.

  1. junkbeast

    junkbeast Member

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    so if i can get 70-80% out of a movie by converting the extras to still images, but 55-60% or so if i leave the extras, does this have a huge imapact on the quality of the film?
    i'd like to keep extras, but i don't want movies that are crappy quality.
    also, aside from doing away with extra audio options and subtitles, and extras, is there anything else you can do to cut down on compression?
     
  2. bigorange

    bigorange Active member

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    junkbeast


    There is a large difference between 20-25% and 40-45% compression. If you have removed unwanted audio and you have raised compression on extras you kept and substituted still image on the ones you don't want, that's about all you can do other than re-author and keep movie and 1-2 extras only. That will lose you menu function. The new shrink 3.2 does a very good job if you use the new quality settings, ie the 2 pass and the AEC settings.


    If you want to keep everything and not lose quality there is one app that will do it. That is RB/CCE, I have done over 50% compression and couldn't tell a difference between copy and original at 300% magnification. Rebuilder and everything you need is free. CCE Basic costs 58.00 Vurbal's guide to set up is here in AD and there is no editing or anything else to do after setup. It's one click on transcode and that's it. When finished you burn to disc, done.
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    Last edited: Oct 26, 2004
  3. junkbeast

    junkbeast Member

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    cool, thanks. i'll check that app out.

    also, i didn't realize you could save some extras and do away with others; am i missing something? i thought you either kept the extras folder or convert the whole thing to still image.
     
  4. bigorange

    bigorange Active member

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    Noooo, nooo, LOL. If you click on the little + mark beside each heading whether it's main movie, menu, or extras it will show you individual files. You can preview them in the window below and decide what you want to keep, what you want to replace with still image, and what you want to increase compression on that you kept to reduce compression on the main movie.

    Lots of times a DVD will have two main movies, widescreen and fullscreen, you can disable one to reduce compression greatly! I always keep widescreen and eliminate fullscreen because i prefer that format.

    One other thing, i would leave menu alone because messing in that can destroy it's functioning. You can increase compression on it, but i wouldn't edit in it.

    Does that make more sense now? :>)
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    Last edited: Oct 26, 2004
  5. bigorange

    bigorange Active member

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    BTW, if you decide you want to try RB/CCE, let me know and i will be glad to assist. The setup can be a little intimidating but once done it's a breeze to use.

    There is not one person who has used it that hasn't said the quality is unparalleled or has regretted buying CCE Basic. It's amazing you can compress that much with no need to edit. I don't know of another app you can say that about.
    _X_X_X_X_X_[small][​IMG][bold]GO VOLS![/bold].Dell Media4600,XP,Pentium 4 @2.80GHz/800Mz,1024MB,280HDw/8MB,17"flat panel,AIO-A920,8xDVD-ROM,integrated5.1 audio,HPdc4000,PlextorPX-708UF,LiteOn832S-DL[/small]
     
    Last edited: Oct 26, 2004
  6. junkbeast

    junkbeast Member

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    ahhh, duh. i expanded the folders and saw you can mess with individual components in the folders.

    yeah, i think i'll try that app. if i run into problems, i'll post here. thanks!
     
  7. bigorange

    bigorange Active member

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    your welcome :>)
     
  8. S2K

    S2K Regular member

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    good advice, I will just add another idea.

    don't compress at all and just use dvd shrink to create two disks with half the film. it is going to cost you $0.45 more in blank media and you will be glad you did when you get a better television.

    I much rather have a film without the poor effects of compressinon (and rbb/cce is good but you can clearly see effects there even wiht just 105 compression). If you are dead set on keeping the extras you an always still image the main film and have the extra's uncompressed on a third disk.

    again that is just my take. just consider
    1) that you can alsways selct audio and subtitle tracks from your dvd player remote.
    2) you may find you no longer even want to watch menues.
    3) media is cheap, especially compared to your time.
    4) you will for certain be upgrading you tv. the loss from even 10% compression on shrink or 205 compresion on CCE will be obviosu when yo go from a 27" old tv to a 34 high def.
     
  9. junkbeast

    junkbeast Member

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    well, i have one of the best TVs on the market (sony xbr910), and even watching movies made with shrink with 40-50% compression, i really do not see a huge difference. if i can get the compression down to 30%, it looks identical. i'm sure it would look even better on a crappy, non-HD TV because that kinda stuff doesn't tend to be as obvious.
     
  10. bigorange

    bigorange Active member

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    [bold] you will for certain be upgrading you tv. the loss from even 10% compression on shrink or 205 compresion on CCE will be obviosu when yo go from a 27" old tv to a 34 high def.[/bold]


    Hmmm....I have to respectfully disagree IMHO.

    I said "That is RB/CCE, I have done over 50% compression and couldn't tell a difference between copy and original at 300% magnification.

    I did this comparison on a Mitsibishi 57" HDTV with the theater screen(not a 27" old TV) using a split screen, original on one side and copy on the other. The lines were exactly alike, no one else could tell which was which either.

    Besides I hate having to switch discs in the middle of a movie :>)

    I have however put extras on one disc and main movie on another and created a "2 disc set" so to speak, lol.

    Also, I much prefer menus with which to navigate my DVD. I doubt I'll ever tire of them, in fact I do a lot of menu authoring of my own for files I've downloaded, VHS to DVD files, home movies, etc.

    Each to his own tho, that's why there are so many variations on the same theme out there :>)
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    Last edited: Oct 27, 2004
  11. S2K

    S2K Regular member

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    You are welcome to your own view on cce. it certainly is a very good solution and tops when it comes to compression. but there are also tests out, inded the even the ones that show cce as best clearly show an effect even at 80%.

    As I said it is just an option and everyone has their preferences. but keep this in mind, storage prices are going nowhere but south and will always. Let's just say for argument that you get decent quality dvd5 at $0.45 per unit. lets add that current hdd is $0.45/gig.

    ok in my opinion if the film is 4.3g without the menues and extras, then I am sure we agree the best course is to reauthor film only at 100% and if you want the extras, blank the film on a second dvdr5 with menues and extras.

    if the film is 6.5gigs with the audio you want my opinion is the best course 2 disks. it will cost you $0.45 more.

    Now it is in't only that you will suffer to some degree with the any compression - no matter what encoder. it is that in two years hdd space will be about $0.10 a gig using any standard projection. that is sixty cents for keeping the full format film on your hdd. Blueray or what everis next will certainly drive optical way down.

    Let's say - theoretically of course - that your "back-up" is your main available copy. the costs of storage at 100% just keep dropping. once you compress, if you "lose" your original, you can't go back.

    Again I only presenting this as one option. I have trilingual kids so I tend to keep english spanish and french and therefore the threshhold and amount at which I would need to compress to a single dvdr5 might be slightly higher than yours.

    our only disagreement is your statement that you compress at 50% with cce, view on a 57" hdtv, and can't sew any difference at 300x. I submit this is not correct and that you are the only person I have ever seen make such a statement. At 80% all the comparsions tests on the web who varying results across encoders, and each has their boosters- but one thing is constant, there is always a visable effect in comparsion to the original even at 90%. At 50% ever single encoder (including ccee, and take whatever bitrate and pass setting you want)is going to cause pulse visable on a standard televison. the average person would see a visable difference in side by side tests at anything more than 75%.

    also keep in mind that once you are writing dvdr5 past 4g your chance of error on burn, and the negative effects of handling over time are magnified. the edge is where most problems are. a 6g film over two disks that problem is mitigated to a large degree.
     
  12. bigorange

    bigorange Active member

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    [bold]You are welcome to your own view on cce[/bold]
    Obviously, I'm not.

    [bold]Let's say - theoretically of course - that your "back-up" is your main available copy[/bold]

    That would be piracy, if new means and methods become available, then you should have your purchased copy to back up again.


    [bold]I submit this is not correct and that you are the only person I have ever seen make such a statement[/bold]

    I know what I saw and I am not the only person to make a statement of this kind. Read the threads on RB/CCE. You have your way and I have mine, but I know what I saw and I know what other viewers said that looked at the comparison and what others have said about their own comparisons here in AD. I also know that with that much magnification even if the difference was noticeable it wouldn't be at normal viewing.

    I also have dual layer capabilities and with RB/CCE it has not really been needed or used that much. I like menus, I don't like switching discs in the middle of a movie, nor do I know many others who do.

    As far as errors go, i don't have very many, I have been doing this for quite some time, I have backed up over 800 movies and I don't wish to store them on my HD.

    Since you have pretty much called me a liar on what I saw, (you weren't here BTW) I will now uncubscribe to this thread to avoid any further dissention.

    junkbeast, if you wish to PM me I wll be glad to assist you in any way I can.
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    Last edited: Oct 27, 2004
  13. S2K

    S2K Regular member

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    I did not call you a liar, that is really over-reacting. I just pointed out your conclusions are very different than 90% of the threads and referenced tests here, doom9, dvdrhelp, etc.

    Now I know I didn't call you a liar, I am pointing out your opinion was at variance with the vaste majority of observations. But I would point out your tossing the term "piracy" here, while yourself having claimed a library of 800 films, would seem, at the very least, ironic.
     
  14. bigorange

    bigorange Active member

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    [bold]But I would point out your tossing the term "piracy" here, while yourself having claimed a library of 800 films, would seem, at the very least, ironic.[/bold]

    Again with the innuendos, which I do not appreciate. I own every copy, I have been buying DVD's ever since they came out. People who rather argue prevent others from trying to help, which is what this forum was intended.
     
  15. S2K

    S2K Regular member

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    Again with the innuendos, which I do not appreciate....

    People who rather argue prevent others from trying to help, which is what this forum was intended.


    A you are the one who threw in the term piracy.

    a) ad hominum (using the term "piracy" when you don't have anythig to say is called trolling
    b) whining that saying someone else brought up "piracy" when YOU are the one who did first, is called sad irony.

    since you didn't read my post before commenting on it, you missed the FACT that I called your post "good advice."

    You then start in with "piracy" as your comment on my post!

    fact is you said that you compress 50% with cce-basic and cant see the difference on a 52" teleivsion at 300% magnification. That is laughable.

    Challenged on your laaghable asssertion you theow troll a response: accuse the other of "piracy"
     
  16. aut0psy

    aut0psy Regular member

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    Guy's don't you have something better to do!! :)

    I would have to agree with bigorange on this one though, sorry!
     

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