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So you KNOW you can hear the difference between lossy and lossless.

Discussion in 'Audio' started by Mez, Aug 9, 2013.

  1. Mez

    Mez Active member

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    So you KNOW you can hear the difference between lossy and lossless.

    The first thing I say to this is the difference between high quality lossy and lossless is negligible in that 1% of music recordings that there may actually be different. Since you claim you can hear the difference when they are identical might indicate you are delusional. Let me explain…

    a quote from http://journal.plasticmind.com/ears/mosquito-tone-or-how-to-tell-youre-a-youngun/

    The page has hearing tests and a hearing chart

    http://journal.plasticmind.com/assets/12ring-graphic.gif

    Just incase the site gets deleted here is some of what is in the chart

    Note - the low end is for persons that do not listen to loud music or noises, ever. It has NOTHING to do with your IQ.
    18 – 24 yrs can hear up to 16 kHz
    30 – 39 yrs can hear up to 15 kHz
    40 – 49 yrs can hear up to 13 kHz
    50 – 59 yrs can hear up to 12 kHz
    To hear 20 kHz you need to be maybe 5 yrs old
    Highest note on a piano 4KHz
    Highest note produced by a human voice 2kHz


    Lame VBR at its second highest setting captures 19383 Hz - 19916 Hz. I could not find what the highest setting but it is likely to be 20,000 or the same as lossless or so close to it doesn’t matter. Even at 19916 the difference is 1%. Hearing is one of our least accurate senses. Claiming that you can tell the difference between lossless and lossy is pretty much an ignorant boast. It assumes that what you are listening to actually has some note that is higher than 199920 Hz which is rare. 1) Probably in a random sampling of popular music probably less than 3 out of the hundred recordings ACTUALLY HAS a 20,000 Hz note. Since most recording do not have 20,000 Hz tones and you think you can hear the difference when there is none you are deluding yourself. 2) Even if you have a recording that has a 20kHz tone loud enough for you to hear, it is still like claiming if you are looking at a 100 ft tree you can reliably see at a glance if the tree was only 99 ft high. It has to be at a glance since the resonance tone may not last for even a second. Remember sight is out most accurate sense while hearing is our least accurate sense. #0 Lastly, the high tones are only resonances. A high C is not even 2 kHz. Primary notes of any instrument are all below 5 kHz. Fletcher–Munson effect (to hear tones as the frequency increases the loudness must increase log rhythmically to be able to hear it) requires a tone that is 99.99% of your hearing limit to be over 100 times as loud as the primary note to be able to hear it which they can’t be since they are only resonances.
     
    Last edited: Aug 9, 2013
  2. aldan

    aldan Active member

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    hey mez,any sites you could recommend that give a hearing test like this? im 55 and curious as to how the rock concerts and impact wrenches (pulled wrenches for 35 years) have affected my hearing.
     
  3. xboxdvl2

    xboxdvl2 Regular member

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    alden in my opinion an online hearing test wouldn't work as it would depend on your speaker settings and test results would be unreliable.

    I'm curious as to how good my hearing is.my eye sight gets worse every year and sounds seem to be getting closer and louder.most the time i have music on just to drown out any background noise i can hear.

    (some examples) My washing machine during spin sounds like a helicopters landing on my roof,my nieghbours lawnmower sounds like 3 chainsaws going at once,i hear what sounds like someone stomp on the ground every wednesday morning but its just my messenger newspaper getting thrown onto soft grass.
     
  4. aldan

    aldan Active member

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    yeah,hearing,eyesight,back,knees,mind.LOL.
     
  5. Mez

    Mez Active member

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    The first link included a hearing test (at the bottom). Most ear buds go at least to 20,000 Hz mine go 22 kHz but I couldn't hear 17 kHz on the test. High frequencies are cheap to reproduce but expensive to store.

    Note: Most hearing tests make the very high tones very loud. If you can hear a tone at 120 DB you can hear it. That does not mean you can hear a resonance tone at 20 db on a recording.

    The reason why I stipulated solos is other instruments will mask the resonance tones. Example you do not expect to hear people whispering during an explosion. The explosion is a loud and low frequency. Your hearing favors low frequencies. I remember ripping a classical guitar using VBR -0 setting; the tracks were over 320 BR even though the estimated was maybe 200. VBR is a quality setting not a BR setting.
     
  6. gabebcn

    gabebcn Newbie

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    Good article!
    In any case, the best way not to delude yourself is to try blind test. It is a humbling experience for almost everybody. I recommend this one: http://cdvsmp3.wordpress.com
     
  7. Mez

    Mez Active member

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    Hearing is believing. Of course most who think they can will not even take a test even in private. They prefer the illusion of being a super human.
     
  8. aldan

    aldan Active member

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    took the test but the link for my results didnt work.probably just as well as im 56 and sometimes cant hear the wife nagging at me.lol
     
  9. Mez

    Mez Active member

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    Well, if you couldn't block out the nags you would be in an institution. That is an evolutionary advancement. Wives need to nag so they can get it off their chests but we don't need to listen. A requirement for the test is to be listening with something other than computer speakers which usually have a performance range narrower than even an old guys hearing. I took you for a 30-40s guy not and over the hill guy.
     
  10. aldan

    aldan Active member

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    nah,not over the hill,still climbing.lol.i just act like a kid.only got 6 out of 16 so i definitely cant tell the difference,which,in my case may be a bonus.took the test with my turtle bay headphones.
     
  11. Mez

    Mez Active member

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    You have an opened mind and were curious. The ones that profess the loudest will not test them selves.
     
  12. aldan

    aldan Active member

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    oh im one curious cat alright.hasnt killed me yet but gets me into trouble now and then.lol.
     

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