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The Official PC building thread - 4th Edition

Discussion in 'Building a new PC' started by ddp, Sep 13, 2010.

  1. Blazorthon

    Blazorthon Regular member

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    Russ, do you mind if I ask why you want such a low CAS? Even at CAS 8, DDR3-1866 should be latency because you can compare timings by dividing the timing by the frequency to get latency (IIRC, the number you get is column address latency measured in seconds when done on the CAS timing). DDR3-1600 CAS 7 has about 2% higher CAS latency than DDR3-1866 CAS 8. Is this not reflected in the performance of something that you do?
     
    Last edited: Dec 11, 2012
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  3. harvardguy

    harvardguy Regular member

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    There you guys go - designing chips again! Wayyyy over my head - I'm just trying to get Quick Launch to work:

    Hey City, I couldn't find it on my w7 - in fact I typed Quick Launch just above the start button, and it brought up a little window: "Quick Launch - where is it: We have removed it from this version of windows" - and they had some instructions about pinning, lol. When I say "Quick Launch" I mean like with XP - a reserved section on the left of the task bar, where you can insert tiny icons, for anything - it can be a folder, a program, a file - whatever you want. Pretty handy. Of course they removed it - that's what progress is all about. Getting rid of good stuff. LOL

    Quick Launch survives on Windows 7 the Stevo way!

    Thanks! Okay, very interesting - I found the Quick Launch folder in the Internet Explorer folder - I just searched the drive for Quick Launch. I never knew it was there. Pretty snazzy - I might play with that later. So are you saying, Stevo, that you can put just about anything you want in there? If so - sounds like that's what I was looking for.

    AND BLAZE HAS A WHOLE TUTORIAL ON IT!

    Great - sounds like what Stevo was sayin - by any chance, Blaze, can you post the link to your sticky?

    I started to watch that Earth video that you posted, Russ - amazing! (Is it pure coincidence that Jackie is the singer?)

    Haha, and then Jeff bought Far Cry 3, and he's out on the islands, stirring things up, with a bounce in his step!! (I'm downloading it in Steam as we speak, lol.)

    EDIT:
    Oh, no - my pride and joy Medusa 5.1 headphones suddenly have a bad right rear speaker. I pulled the other beat up set from storage - it had developed a bad rear speaker also - testing it tonight shows that the bad one is on the left side, right side is good. Soooo - I will now put on my techie hat, get out my soldering iron, and attempt to take out the good right rear speaker from the beatup headphones, and transplant it over to my gaming headphones. Anybody have any special words of advice, other than "Be careful" and don't ask Sam to do it, since soldering is not his thing? :p

    Rich
     
    Last edited: Dec 11, 2012
  4. theonejrs

    theonejrs Active member

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    Blazorthon,

    You have to forgive me here. I'm new to DDR3, but with DDR2 I always used the lowest cas timings I could find in GSkill or Corsair, and always had good memory performance. I've only been using DDR3 for about 6 months, so my experience with it is limited.

    Here's my 3DMark06 at 4.025GHz
    [​IMG]

    And at 3.725GHz
    [​IMG]

    Processor Arithmetic 4.025GHz
    [​IMG]

    And at 3.725GHz
    [​IMG]

    Memory Bandwidth 4.025gHz
    [​IMG]

    And at 3.725GHz
    [​IMG]


    Processor MultiMedia At 4.025GHz
    [​IMG]

    And at 3.725GHz
    [​IMG]

    I can't understand how the 3Dmark06 scores can drop like that at 4.025GHz. Roughly 5000MB/s difference. By the benchmarks it shouldn't be happening, but it's certainly fast enough. It also runs much smoother at 3.725GHz. If anyone has any ideas, I would be interested in hearing them. And please don't tell me to buy an Intel. LOL!

    Best Regards,
    Russ
     
  5. Blazorthon

    Blazorthon Regular member

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    Russ,

    Ahh, that may explain it. With DDR2, a timing difference in CAS of one would probably be enough between frequency notches to make a negative difference in CAS latency. The frequencies generally weren't so high that they'd be able to counteract even a single digit timing difference for the main timings such as CAS, RAS, etc.

    I doubt that the issue is because of you having an AMD CPU. It's probably fixable without changing platforms. Have you tried higher voltage, making sure that heat isn't causing throttling with any of the cores, and checking to see if the core utilization changes between each frequency (It's a long shot, but the increased frequency might have messed with scheduling just enough for things to get scheduled to the second core of each module more than they should, forcing the front-end bottle-neck to show up more than it should)?

    You could also try running the program with task manager restrictions to only run on core 0, 3, 5, and 7 in both a 3.725GHz test and a 4.025GHz test, hopefully to ensure that this isn't the issue.

    You could also try messing with some other settings such as the CPU/NB frequency and more to see if anything can change this. Even if you don't do that, increasing the northbridge's voltage may also help. Increasing it for CPU overclocks sometimes improves stability with the CPU overclock.

    I'll try to think of other possible solutions.
     
  6. theonejrs

    theonejrs Active member

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    Blazorthon,

    Stability is not an issue, it's as solid as a rock. Temps are not an issue either. At 4.025 GHz, at 1.36v, I ran10 passes with IBT, and it flickered to 53C for a second and never went over 52C after that, and it was 110F outside that day, about 80 inside. It's an encoding beast. It never crashes or BSODs, just this thing with 3DMark06.

    Here's my temps and voltages
    [​IMG]

    As you can see, nothing there that needs attending to. Looks great to me!

    Puzzled,
    Russ
     
    Last edited: Dec 12, 2012
  7. Blazorthon

    Blazorthon Regular member

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    Russ, would you mind running an in-game benchmark or two to see if there's a performance difference and if so, if it agrees/disagrees with 3DMark06?

    Also, you could try some of the listed solutions that I gave that aren't related to temps/stability (or maybe some that are just in case, computers, as I'm sure you know, can be just plain weird occasionally) and see if anything helps, but I'm pretty puzzled too...
     
  8. DXR88

    DXR88 Regular member

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    whats your current NorthBridge speed?

    i set my NB to 2400 and HT link to 1800 to get passed 3.9GHz.
     
    Last edited: Dec 12, 2012
  9. theonejrs

    theonejrs Active member

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    Blazorthon,


    Don't laugh, but I have no idea how to run an in-game benchmark, and all the gaming software has been removed, anyway. I'm going to do a secure erase on my Intel 120GB SSD, and swap the FX-8320 for the 1090t and set it up in the UD5 with a fresh install of Win 7. I'll put a fresh install of XP-Pro on the brand new Intel 120GB SSD in the 1090t. I'm going to put a spare XFX-HD4670, one of the good ones, with 1GB GDDR3. It put my 9500GT to shame. I need to keep the 550GTX Ti with the same CPU and drives. Hopefully the UD5 won't force another confrontation with M$, because the CPU and motherboard don't match.

    I did try the suggestions I could do, except for the above, in-game benchmark. The 8320 does not like you fooling with the northbridge, and while you can increase the NB frequency to 2400MHz, and it seems to run fine, with no crashes, It will fail 4 out of 5 IBT passes. Set it back to 2200MHz, and it pass 10 in a row IBT Passes at 100% load. I read somewhere that the Vishera has only 1 2600MHz leg on the HT link frequency, while the other leg, the NB, can't be run over 2200MHz, so the hyper transport will only run at 4800MHZ or less. That's why the 1090t is faster. The Thubans are the only Phenom IIs with a 5200MHz Hyper Transport, and yes, the extra 400MHz does make quite a noticeable difference in performance. I will talk to you all some time tomorrow night.

    Oh, Jackie is growing up. LOL! Here's a recent performance on the View, a few weeks ago.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d65VQZ2iKuQ

    Her voice has gotten even more amazing, and no more Minnie Mouse giggles. She still giggles, but in a deeper voice. She's 4'11" tall now and wears 2" heels. Poor kid, not only is she going through vocal changes, but she's also going through Puberty at the same time, and she won't be 13 until April 9th. She hit a note and slid off of it in concert the other night, and looked at her mother like what the heck was that. If you ever get the chance, go see her in concert. She's been out your way, before. BluRay is good, but nothing beats Jackie live. I guess BluRay can't capture heart!

    Enjoy,
    Russ
     
  10. sammorris

    sammorris Senior member

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    Russ: First thing to know about 3dmark, is it's wildly variable. Despite being a scripted test, the results can vary enormously depending on what's open in the background. You can also find that with a higher CPU overclock, even though the system will never return errors or crash, you get some sort of interruptions to the graphics card - perhaps it's a PCIe error check/interruption or something - I too have seen too high an overclock reduce my score before, but I've also seen my score reduce considerably by running the test a second time straight after the first. Unfortunately, 3dmark is not a very reliable test, and the fact that 6 year old machines with an 8800GTX and Core 2 Q9000 series CPUs can fairly often best your 3dmark score shows its limitations through.

    As said, I'm not sure 3-way SLI can be done with GTX550 Tis, as usually they only have a single SLI connector.
    Also be advised that you start to see further diminishing returns with three GPUs, as it's often not as well supported as two.
    Realistically, the next stage up from two cards is two better cards. In the majority of cases you should really be towards the top of the graphics card chain before even considering two (e.g. GTX670 sort of level), else a single card will do the job better.

    Rich: I know about 8 or 9 people who owned Medusa headphones. Every single one had to do soldering on a regular basis to keep them operational. I believe all of them, perhaps except one, have now all moved onto higher quality headsets.
    The headphones I use get a lot of use, and a fair bit of damage, and as a result they too only last about a year on average before one speaker fails, but they're available in high street stores and they're so cheap I'm happy to just keep replacing them.
     
  11. ddp

    ddp Moderator Staff Member

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    harvardguy, don't drop the soldering iron when it is hot on the family jewels.
     
  12. omegaman7

    omegaman7 Active member

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    Good lord ddp! LOL!
     
  13. ddp

    ddp Moderator Staff Member

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    what?
     
  14. Estuansis

    Estuansis Regular member

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    Currently using my trusty old Creative Falat1ty headset and still works like a champ. Excellent sound quality as well. Have replaced the stereo jacks a few times but what can you do eh? :p
     
    Last edited: Dec 12, 2012
  15. Mr-Movies

    Mr-Movies Active member

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    I was looking at the GTX660 and wasn't looking to see if there was a second SLi connector I'll have to re-look at that but I may still go 7750/70's, 7850/70's, or if I want to really jump off the cliff 7950/70's. I've also thought about going fan-less and having four lesser stream cards 1GB cards.

    Good point Sam...

    Russ, Again I'm off on the Gigabyte as I can do 4 or 5 video cards with it and only 3 with the ASRock, 4 with the MSI. If I do go with the Gigabyte I will get the UD7 instead of the UD3 or UD5. I still will probably go with the RAIDMAX 700w modular as it is 80plus supply and less $30 in price over the OCZ.

    With my severe back pain and lack of sleep working OT on the night shift I'm having problems focusing on the tasks at hand sometimes so forgive me if I get things screwed up for the next couple of weeks. I'm going for shots this morning and hopefully I'll start getting some sleep next week. So again forgive me if I'm a bit off, at least more so then normal.... LOL

    Stevo
     
  16. omegaman7

    omegaman7 Active member

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    I know exactly what you mean Steve. I'm working insane hours myself, and my primary job taxes my body big time :S And my mind LOL!
     
  17. sammorris

    sammorris Senior member

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    As a sufferer of chronic sciatica, I can sympathise. Take it easy out there :)
     
  18. Mr-Movies

    Mr-Movies Active member

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    Thanks for being patient and your understanding. Even when I disagree I hold all of your advice and preferences, closely and considerately. Again thanks. :D

    Merry Christmas, Happy Hanukkah, Yuletide, and so on....
    Stevo
     
  19. theonejrs

    theonejrs Active member

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    Hi Folks,

    It's been an interesting 2 days. Anyone remember that Boot Sector virus I got in a download from M$? The one they wanted to charge me $80 per hour to remove. He spent about 2 hours on remote desktop and said it was fixed. It wasn't! It was timed to a new install of 7! Went through the entire win7 install, only to have it BSOD on the final re-boot. Examining the Intel 120GB SSD drive, revealed 3 partitions with the middle one being active, with only 7GB of space. Thinking it was just a bad drive, so I tried another SSD. Then, it did the same thing to the Patriot Pyro 60GB SSD. At this point, 11AM Wednesday, I went to bed.

    When I got up at 4:30PM, we decided to put the OS on an HDD. It did the same thing to the HDD. I said "what the hell", and ran KillDisk on the drive itself (80H). 1 hour and 30 minutes later I installed Win7 Pro, with no problems. I did the same thing to the 2 SSDs, and they are OK. I was able to optimize the Intel 330 120GB SSD, and it's health is perfect according to the Intel SSD toolbox!

    Which is faster, the FX-8320 @3.5GHz chip, or the 1090tBE @3.2GHz. let me put it this way, the 1090t at 3.2GHz is only 3000 MIPS slower at 4GHz! I only tweaked the CPU NB VID .010v, and had to lower the CPU voltage to 1.296v, and set both the NB and the HT link to 2400MHz. It wouldn't boot up until I dropped the CPU voltage from 1.488v to 1.296v, only then it would boot up in windows. I have benchmarks, but I'll have to wait until I get the other computer running, the software is on one of it's HDDs. I'll probably tweak it a bit more, because it always ran at 5200 MT/s before. I'm running the original 1333MHz cas 7 memory, the FX-8320 is 3GHz faster at 4.0GHz, and it's using 1600MHz cas 7 memory. The 1090t at 3.2GHz will crush the FX-8320 at 4GHz in single threaded apps by a wide margin. Runs sweet!

    Best Regards,
    Russ
     
  20. ZoSoIV

    ZoSoIV Regular member

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    Russ now you can go back to bed a get some more sleep huh lol
     
  21. Mr-Movies

    Mr-Movies Active member

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    The Piledriver (AMD FX-8350 Eight-Core 4.0GHz native) from what I've read is suppose to be much better, if you wish to believe that. That is what I'm buying for my new build so time will tell. Of course I'll be running it on a new motherboard which will be faster as well so it will be tough to make direct comparisons, accurate, unless I compare on the same board setups. It will be nice to see truly how much faster the newly tweaked Piledrivers really are? I'd be surprised if it was by a huge amount on a single core comparison, at best my guess would be below 10-15%, more likely 5-10% probably. They've supposedly streamlined the memory controller on the new processors increasing performance dramatically, supposedly?

    Glad to hear you figured out your problem Russ, what a bugger....

    Stevo
     

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