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The Official PC building thread - 4th Edition

Discussion in 'Building a new PC' started by ddp, Sep 13, 2010.

  1. Mr-Movies

    Mr-Movies Active member

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    I have to agree with you DRX88 and the fact that he mentions real world difference is the proof in the pudding. :D

    But I disagree on your Nvidia smoking theory, I'd say they are both pretty close in performance, AMD/NVIDIA. In 2007 NVidia was the way to go still but these days AMD/ATI is pretty darn good.
     
    Last edited: Jan 5, 2013
  2. Estuansis

    Estuansis Active member

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    What matters is the competition itself. If Nvidia use underhanded tactics to give themselves the advantage, that not competition. That's cheating. Without competition the market grows stale. So no, Nvidia's business practices are not good for gamers or end consumers in any way, shape, or form. A technically inferior product dominating the market due to cheating tactics is not competition.

    People bash Microsoft every day for the same reasons. I don't understand why it's so hard to comprehend that Nvidia do the same thing.

    I'm not suddenly some sort of AMD fanboy anymore than I was before. I still have my 8800GTS G92 and it still sees gaming almost daily. Fantastic card. But you HAVE to admit that Nvidia creates artificial bias in a LARGE amount of games.

    UPDATE:

    X6 1090T ordered for ~$180 from a reputable seller on Amazon Stores yesterday. Free rush shipping. Should be here Monday or Tuesday :)
     
    Last edited: Jan 5, 2013
  3. Mr-Movies

    Mr-Movies Active member

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    Both CPU manufactures do the exact same thing it is the typical business model these days for almost all markets just like price fixing is the rule not the exception.
     
  4. theonejrs

    theonejrs Senior member

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    Estuansis,

    Check your PMs. There's a present for you there that should help you when you start to overclock the 1090T.

    Best,
    Russ
     
  5. harvardguy

    harvardguy Regular member

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    Wow! Since I recently discovered I have 12 cavities, I'm going to be very friendly with high-speed dental drilling equipment for quite some time. Those rpms are crazy high.

    Movies would know, and I could look it up, but I seem to recall that actual jet engine turbines crank in the 30,000-50,000 rpm range (congrats Stevo on your new monitor.)

    Deadrum, I hear you, and you said less than $100 more, but, salesperson that I am, I am still going to push your buddy a bit and suggest my card, at $110 over what you proposed - and please notice that you pick up another gigabyte of vram.

    Yeah, I know he wants to game at 1080p, but one day he might decide to try out gaming at 1600p, or 1440p, with a crazy PC title like Crysis, on ultra, and with this card he can do that. I ran all the way through all the the crysis titles with just one of these cards, 2560x1600, everything maxed, low 30 minimum smooth fps the entire time! (The card comes stock at 800 clock, but at 975 clock matches the +$100 7970, and with just a small amount fewer shaders, easily handles 4 mega-pixel 30" gaming - whereas the extra shaders on the 7970 probably come in handy on eye-finity, at 5-7 megapixel gaming. The 7950 can easily be overclocked to 975, 1350 memory, vddc 1087, using Trixx. That is rock stable for me. Recently I have pushed it to 1000 and 1025, at 1118 vddc, all 1350 memory, but it is slightly less stable - maybe a crash after 4 hours or so.) Blaze, who has appeared here on this thread from time to time, talked me into this model, 7950, and I tested several other brands against this HIS IceQ card. Amazon offers a nice warranty, and I can help make sure you stress the card during the initial 30 days to make sure you get a good one.

    Here is a link to the original HIS IceQ newegg - it has the video they made which is excellent, and it has my review, lol.

    http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814161407

    [​IMG]

    But newegg doesn't have that one - it has one clocked a little higher for $10 more - and even that is out of stock however amazon has the one I bought at $304 two left.

    http://www.amazon.com/HIS-Mini-Dipl...=UTF8&qid=1357451287&sr=8-3&keywords=his+iceq

    I won't repeat my newegg review here, but I own two of these, and run them in crossfire. Your buddy may, someday, want to see what 27" or 30" gaming is all about. Stevo just jumped into the "high-res desktop club" to quote Sam, and others have entertained the idea - like Jeff and Kevin. Sam was the pioneer.

    [​IMG]

    This Far Cry 3 picture might look nice - great reflections on water - lots of color, but until you see it close up, in 4 megapixels, or 3.6 megapixels in 1440p, you ain't seen nothing! And that extra 1 gigabyte of video ram makes all the difference in the world when you game at high-res with high-res textures.

    Stevo and Jeff have been having an interesting discussion on mouse vs console, and I would imagine that Far Cry 3 PC version will allow console play, but one of the most fun things about this game doesn't have to do with shooting somebody with a mouse, but simply driving around the ultra textures high-res superb graphics world either on a quad or on a wave runner, not using the mouse at all.

    More than a "who can I shoot" junkie, I am a "immerse myself in exquisite graphics" junkie, and running around this map at high res can only be described as a sublime experience.

    Rich
     
  6. omegaman7

    omegaman7 Senior member

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    Wow Rich. Far Cry 3 might get my brother into PC gaming. I should bring my tower over to his place next weekend, and we can project it at 720P. I guarantee he'd see it as better than his PS3. That image above may be downscaled, but you can see it has obvious detail. And given the extra settings that PCs have, I guarantee he'd be intrigued. His 1080P HTPC shouldn't be too difficult to upgrade. It'll have my 1090t in a few short months.
     
  7. Mr-Movies

    Mr-Movies Active member

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    Those 7950's work sweet and FC3 looks fantastic. I hear nothing but good about FarCry3 from friends and customers, the graphics are great, and I understand the game-play is the best of the series.

    WOW,
    Stevo
     
    Last edited: Jan 7, 2013
  8. theonejrs

    theonejrs Senior member

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    Harvardguy,

    Originally posted by Russ: Miniature air turbines for dental handpieces (Hi Speed Drills). Basically, I take new designs and through metallurgy and design refinements, I get them to live at 450,000 rpm @35 psi. The whole thing consists of a spindle and chuck assembly, two miniature radial or angular ball bearings and an impeller, held in by two o-rings. A finished turbine cartridge is about 3/8" long and about the width of a cigarette.


    Originally posted by harvardguy: Wow! Since I recently discovered I have 12 cavities, I'm going to be very friendly with high-speed dental drilling equipment for quite some time. Those rpms are crazy high.

    Rich,

    I'll give you some advice about getting those teeth drilled, if you are interested? If your teeth aren't hurting you, let him/her drill them without Novocaine! It's a little disconcerting for a few minutes, until you get used to it, but it's sure is nice to get out of the chair, go home and eat dinner, have a cup of coffee without wearing it, and not slobbering all over yourself for the next 3-4 hours or more, with no pain.

    If you are in pain, but not in all 12 teeth, talk to him/her about not using Novocaine for the teeth that don't hurt, unless they are all on the same side. Take care of he painful ones first using it, and then the ones that don't hurt without it.

    I'm guessing by my own experience that these cavities were discovered in a regular dental checkup, so My guess is that few teeth, if any are hurting.

    Think about it,
    Russ
     
  9. Estuansis

    Estuansis Active member

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    Ha haven't had regular dental check-ups in a while. Recently got a root canal though and have another tooth with an exposed nerve that needs crowning. Have long since stopped drinking Mountain Dew... Oh well my insurance kicks in next week. AFAIK, I only have 2 cavities that need fixing. The one mentioned, and another, more minor one. Do try to brush and floss pretty consistently, but my teeth have very tight gaps.

    After cavities I have a cap coming off a previously chipped tooth. Not concerned as the dental work is about 10 years old. The one that needs work is my #19 molar. Holds the shape of your face, main chewing tooth, holds the rest of your teeth in place. Big problems if I get it pulled. I need my insurance to cover the bad tooth, otherwise my dentist is pretty fairly priced.

    I do try to forgo anesthesia if I can. Expensive, but necessary for some situations. My dad is insane though, never uses any for anything. Like "yeh whatever my back makes this seem pleasant in comparison" XD

    X6 1090T gets here today or tomorrow :)

    Asked the Amazon Stores guy I bought it from a little bit about it. He says previous owner had it at 3.8GHz at stock voltage and it was stable. Doesn't know anything more about it, only that it was a good chip when he stressed it at stock settings for testing. The stock voltage OC is good or bad depending on what stock voltage is. My friend's 1090T came with 1.425 stock so had limited OCing headroom. Would only do 3.9GHz at 1.45 and he didn't feel comfortable going to a higher voltage long term. I want more like 4.0-4.4 at 1.475 or under, which isn't unreasonable in the slightest on a decent chip.
     
    Last edited: Jan 7, 2013
  10. Deadrum33

    Deadrum33 Active member

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    My friend/client wanted AMD because of something he heard from some guy named Linus. This video (starts at 48:10) might help explain. Whether it was best or not, its the brand name and price he wanted.

    @HARVARDGUY---I know you meant well and I appreciate the words, but this was what he wanted. In a year from now, when he wants to add another card and needs help, i get to inspect what he's done to my build, and have fun playing around with someone elses hardware.
     
    Last edited: Jan 7, 2013
  11. omegaman7

    omegaman7 Senior member

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    Jeff, If you like far cry 3, you'll find that it utilizes the 1090t. Mine appeared to be running at an average of 80%(which is beyond a 4 core CPU. The GPU was running at nearly 100% most the time. Haven't played with the graphics settings in game. I've been running at default just checking the game out for now. It's pretty good. Not sure if I'll be buying it yet. If I find myself enjoying/testing for more than a week though, I'll deem it worth buying ;) Games aren't something I'm comfortable pirating. Or anything that deserves return for that matter. I wonder how the Xbox 360 controller would fair with the game? Hmm...

    That video makes me want to opt out of Nvidia :S
     
  12. sammorris

    sammorris Senior member

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    Yeah Mr. Torvalds does not get on well with nvidia, and it's mostly due to the reasons me and Jeff were ranting about above. They're not a nice company to do business with, but because they usually give you money so you can not say bad things, it carries on.
    I should note that one fairly reputable tech review website has a serious dislike for them - I can't remember which one it is off the top of my head, it might be TweakTown?
     
  13. Estuansis

    Estuansis Active member

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    Omega, that certainly get me excited as FarCry 3 is one of the games I'd like to see better performance in.

    As far as pirating goes... Hear no evil, See no evil, Speak no evil :)

    Sam, I have to agree with Linus Torvalds and many others' opinions. Nvidia are b*stards.
     
  14. sammorris

    sammorris Senior member

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    Performance levels double-weighted for minimum frame rate:
    AMD Athlon II X4 620 2600mhz: 21 per core, 83 total EQUIV@36 115
    AMD Phenom II X2 550 3100mhz: 33 per core, 66 total EQUIV@36 77
    AMD Phenom II X4 940 3000mhz: 25 per core, 101 total EQUIV@36 121
    AMD Phenom II X4 955 3200mhz: 26.5 per core, 106 total EQUIV@36 119
    AMD Bulldozer FX-4100 3600mhz: 27.5 per core, 110 total EQUIV@36 110
    AMD Bulldozer FX-6100 3300mhz: 19 per core, 115 total EQUIV@36 125
    AMD Phenom II X6 1100T 3333mhz: 20 per core, 118 total EQUIV@36 127
    AMD Bulldozer FX-8150 3600mhz: 16 per core, 128 total EQUIV@36 128

    Note that to attain a minimum of 40fps you would need the following equivalent frequencies:
    Ivy Bridge HEX at 3.05Ghz
    Sandy Bridge QUAD7 at 3.50Ghz
    Sandy Bridge QUAD5 at 3.60Ghz
    Nehalem QUAD7 at 3.40Ghz
    Nehalem QUAD5 at 3.50Ghz

    Bulldozer OCT at 3.80Ghz
    Bulldozer HEX at 4.00Ghz
    Bulldozer QUAD at 4.50Ghz
    Phenom II HEX at 3.95Ghz
    Phenom II QUAD at 4.15Ghz

    How realistic the last two are I'm not sure. Bulldozer is good enough in this title to achieve roughly the same results as Phenom II per-thread, so Piledriver should be sitting slightly better. Diminishing returns from 4+ cores, but you do at least see about a 5-10% increase going from 4 to 6 cores on the same architecture with Phenom II.

    For an average of 60fps:

    Ivy Bridge HEX at 3.40Ghz
    Sandy Bridge QUAD7 at 3.80Ghz
    Sandy Bridge QUAD5 at 4.00Ghz
    Nehalem QUAD7 at 4.00Ghz
    Nehalem QUAD5 at 4.00Ghz

    Bulldozer OCT at 4.20Ghz
    Bulldozer HEX at 4.20Ghz
    Bulldozer QUAD at 4.70Ghz
    Phenom II HEX at 4.00Ghz
    Phenom II QUAD at 4.40Ghz


    Unfortunately the source data does not contain Ivy Bridge Quads or Piledriver CPUs.
     
    Last edited: Jan 7, 2013
  15. theonejrs

    theonejrs Senior member

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    Estuansis,,

    Let's try a little honesty here, OK? Both company's have had their bastard moments, and neither company will ever win an honesty award, or always have clean hands! That's just the way big business operates in this country. It won't be long before the government go's after Intel either, or is it a big surprise to anyone, that Intel is trying to force AMD out of business, which would be a bad thing for everyone. The US government will not allow that to happen. They'll break up the divisions at Intel Corp, first! Intel knows that, but will probably push AMD until the government steps in!

    For the record, I have had far less problems with nVidia drivers than I had with Ati/AMD. I don't mind nVidia's updates, because it's rare that I've had any problems with their newest drivers. Very rare!

    Best Regards,
    Russ
     
  16. sammorris

    sammorris Senior member

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    I know this is fairly common knowledge from the past, but out of curiosity, what have Intel done lately in that regard?
     
  17. omegaman7

    omegaman7 Senior member

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    So long Thermaltake. 4.5yrs of faithful service :(
    http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817153023

    It just kicked the bucket LOL! What's sad, is it was running a very old system. That system could not have asked more than 125 - 150W.

    On another note, fanboyism aside, I'd hate to see AMD go out of business. Intel would price gouge in the worst way! The intel extreme processors would probably double in price...
     
    Last edited: Jan 7, 2013
  18. sammorris

    sammorris Senior member

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    Of course, AMD going out of business is no good for anyone, and even the most devout fanboys out there should never think otherwise.
     
  19. theonejrs

    theonejrs Senior member

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    Oh, I don't know. How about selling under cost (loss leaders) for certain CPUs, like the i5-2500K, the i5-3550, and the i5-3570K. They are all loss leaders, intended to force AMD's high end prices lower, and then make it back by higher prices, on everything above those 3.

    Russ
     
  20. sammorris

    sammorris Senior member

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    Source for this?

    I find it surprising that those CPUs are loss leaders given they are expensive, and not even that price-competitive with their rivals from AMD...
     

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